After reading the long thread about Soulmates, I can no<BR>longer hold in this vent. Don't read if you don't want to listen to a vent!<P>This is what I want to say to my WS when I hear the soulmate line. (But I don't, because I am a good little plan Aer) I have wanted to say this since D-Day.<P>To my WS:<BR>"OK, so here is an OP (ten years younger than you, by<BR>the way, who knows none of the things that I have learned<BR>about you in 18 years, who shares none of our deep moments such as child-bearing, etc.) who knows you are married and<BR>yet is willing to destroy your marriage, hurt your S deeply and hurt your children unimaginably. If a person who is willing to do these things is your soulmate, what does that say about you?"<P>

So very True... True...

bgentle-<P>right on!!!!<P>I would add: If she is such a wonderful person, why would she want a lying, cheating, backstabbing, person as her soulmate??? Why is she divorced twice?? Why would ANY person in their right mind want to hurt innocent children? I guess the answer is they aren't in their right mind..........<P>My two cents!!<P>Krystal

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Faith n Him:<BR><B>bgentle-<P>right on!!!!<P>I would add: If she is such a wonderful person, why would she want a lying, cheating, backstabbing, person as her soulmate??? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>so why do you want them as your spouse?????<P>

And I think this thread starter is the post that moved me to Member status. Oops!

Lexxxy,<P>I ask myself that question daily.....I don't have the answers, but I know the man that I married would NEVER have done this to me----I guess I should've said: Why would anyone want an alien abducted person as their soulmate??<P>I don't really know---I have forgiven him, but still see the lies and cheating....<P>It hurts (as everyone knows). My H was never a dishonest person, until this......he was disgusted by people that lied.<P>He told me yesterday that he has become everything that he despised.<P>The answer is that I love him, and know the real person behind this "alien abduction"..lol<P>Krys

Lexxy: My WS has good points and bad points. I have made a lot of mistakes in my marriage, mostly of the type where I took my S for granted and figured we would rekindle "when the kids were older" I thought our vows would keep us together until then. I was tragically wrong.<P>I fully accept my responsibility and am working to fix my mistakes. It is now up to WS to decide whether to recommit. My vent is caused by the feeling that I want WS to decide based on reality, not on fog. And this soulmate thing just grates on my nerves, a pet peeve if you will. What is a soulmate? A person who listens to whatever you have to say and agrees? I would have been happy to do that for my S, but I was never given that chance.<P>And I know this thread is probably a bit negative for a forum that is for people supporting each other as we try to face hard things in our lives, I almost didn't post it for that reason. On the other hand, I need to admit as a BS that not all of my feelings are positive. I am exhausted from dealing with this.<P>And I certainly do not feel as negative about my S as Faith n Him appears to, though I am willing to guess that FnH doesn't feel that way all the time either. <P>My S is human, and made some decisions I can't agree with.<BR>I don't hate him, I just hate the "Soulmate" line.

I have read a bit on the "soulmate" thing. That is what my WH is searching for. There are two things that he misses in his search:<P>1) A soulmate would never hurt someone you love. So if the OP will not step away when they see the relationship in turmoil and the WS confused and afraid (which mine is) they are truely NOT their soulmate. <P>2) A soulmate does not have to be a lover, many times they are simply friends. A soul mate has to understand you and help YOU understand you and help you be a stronger person. Of course my WS (who has been the submissive in this marriage because of his habits, not my strong will) thinks that she is making him strong because he is pulling away. He doesn't see that he is truely RUNNING away TO her because she is supporting him as much as I ever did. He thinks that his own new car and his own apartment mean that he is now independent. Yet he can't go a day without talking to her and getting her to pump him up.<P>Hmmmm, I really think the whole soulmate thing messes things up. You actually have to LOOK for a soulmate. You still have to work on that relationship, and sometimes soulmates are right under your nose only you cannot discover them until you discover yourself. I have never really beleived in soulmates, but I am rethinking. The more my hubbie hurts and pulls away, the more I want to tend his woulds, but I know I cannot do that, so I try to do as he asks and step away. I could say that he might be my soulmate because he truely does know how I am feeling and feels very bad about it all, he just is too tired to work and thinks out is the better option. Plus the OW has her hold on him, telling him she just wants him to be happy, with or without her.<P>AHHH! I always write so much!

I'll chime in on this:<P>If she's your "Soul Mate" then why didn't you know that the first time you boinked her 10 years ago, but instead went directly to a clinic to be tested for STDs and then promptly filed a restraining order on her when she stalked you? <P>If she's your "Soul Mate" why haven't you married her already? We've been D for 3 mos, whats the hold up???<P>I am in a terribly bad mood today, so sorry folks.<P>Jo

I am in a bad mood, today, too everyone....found out yesterday about renewed contact with OP. When will it end?<P>I understand H has "deep feelings" for OP...I told him yesterday that if he feels the need to be with her, then GO!<P>My H is a wonderful father, and I felt before the A, a wonderful Husband. But what does that mean? I am willing to be here, and I have been for a long time---<P>i am with resilient----Why (if they are soulmates), aren't they with them?<BR>Krys

<B>To my WS:<BR>"OK, so here is an OP (ten years younger than you, by<BR>the way, who knows none of the things that I have learned<BR>about you in 18 years, who shares none of our deep moments such as child-bearing, etc.) who knows you are married and<BR>yet is willing to destroy your marriage, hurt your S deeply and hurt your children unimaginably. If a person who is willing to do these things is your soulmate, what does that say about you?"</B><P>Okay, no flaming and no trying to "straighten me out." These are just my thoughts and feelings as the OW and my reasons for believing in the soulmate theory.<P>Yes, I knew he was married. I know I'm married. I know that is big, serious important stuff. Neither of us would ever have wanted to do what we did and not for half a second did we ever believe what we were doing was okay. (and yes I do know him and know what he was/is thinking) But sometimes even though you tell yourself over and over, "it's wrong, it's wrong, it's wrong, it's wrong..." it just won't get past, "it feels right." The OW is in a difficult spot too. And just because she loves someone who she can't have doesn't make her bad. When you meet this man/soulmate you don't look at him as "so and so's husband" you look at him and see a man who fits with you perfectly. The being someone else's husband gets pushed far down the list of descriptions. It is so easy to be together and forget there is anyone else in the world. It's an amazing amount of emotion for one person to have and two people to share. And when you get in really deep, you believe in the "right to be together" that is stronger than anything else. It isn't that you are selfish or that you don't care about your family or that you want to run away. It is that your emotions are so strong for this person that life feels as though it would be misery without them, therefore making you miserable and everyone around you miserable. And people sometimes do extreme things in order to keep some happiness in their lives, no matter where it has come from.<P>Now I can't vouch for one night stands or multi cheaters. I'm talking about if there is the one and only EMA. I'm sure BS will see all sorts of holes in my reasoning. But it doesn't have to make sense to you. It doesn't really make sense to US (WSs). But it is how it FEELS.<P>Just my thoughts<P>Sno<P>

Ok Sno, then how do us BS's really have a chance at total reconciliation??? We cannot "compete" with that. <P>I NEVER realized my H was hurting and that I wasn't meeting his EN's, until the OP came into the picture.<P>Us BS's were hurting, too! I probably could've been a WS, but I was home talking care of the kids---Never got adult conversation, etc......<P>I ask HOW CAN WE COMPETE WITH THOSE FEELINGS WS HAVE FOR OP?<P>

Sorry, Faith, you got me. I don't know. I'm trying to work through things from my own side. I just described how I was feeling.<P>I guess there is a chance that you can't compete. If you can, then you will be able to connect with your husband again. I say try not to compete with a memory and just give what you have, do the best that you can.<P>Best of luck<P>Sno

I don't really know what to make of this, soulmate is just a word, a label, but it seems to really set people off, one way or another. My guess is it just came into common usuage like lots of words, a need developed to "label" something....the in-love view of marriage and love, a fairly recent development in human marital practices. Mostly marriage was dictated by the needs of the family, and/or local community, and women most of the time were essentially property and had little if any say at all in the matter. Now "we" are exploring the psychology of human bonding in a lot more depth, and have developed a clash (as is usually the case) with past practices. Our cultural bias re marriage is steeped in duty, love is irrelevant, something for silly poems and flights of fancy, not needed in the serious business of procreation, family stability (as in extended family), and economic well-being (heck eating is much more important than being in-love...right). At best we hoped for a modicum of respect, and some caring kind of behaviour....but the duties were clear, males "took" women for wives, they obeyed, and were cared for like all the other "stock", if they behaved and worked hard. In return men provided economic and physical security, as well as a place to rear children (to the benefit of both their dna drives)....and if the male chose to dally, was his perogative, wife had nothing to say, is what men do, and if wife did she would suffer mightily, no man is going to tolerate raising anothers child, or have his property used without his permission. And that works, to a point, and there is certainly no need for much discussion re soulmates, cause fitting someone didn't consist of much.... an acceptance of societal roles, and that was about it....<P>NOw we have a new paradigm, the notion that a marriage should meet the needs of both parties, that this is desireable and worthwhile. But we have very little skills in mate selection, so marry whoever we happen to be dating when the marriage urge is strong, especially high during mid 20's (our supposed soulmate), and then when it doesn't quite work out like we thought (re love, happiness) we default back to duty (and it's modern manifestation, vows), our cultural heritage re marital behaviour. Trouble is, we still want a soulmate too, and we keep looking, whether we conciously realize it or not. I think people have always wanted a soulmate (in other words someone whose psychology meshes with theirs), I think it is how people are supposed to bond, and it is that kind of marriage I think the Bible speaks of. They just had very little opportunity to do so (find ones soulmate) in the past.<P>So anyways, when one thinks they have found someone they fit, out comes the label, oft times misapplied, cause they in fact do not fit, but still it is very threatening to the one (the bs) who thought they had exclusivity, so they do everything they can to trivialize, or trash this. It is threatening cause if true, if the ws and op are truly soulmates, the marriage is over (as it should be), it cannot survive it. Even if somehow one gets (coercion and guilt) the ws to stay, it will never be the same, and I think deep down we all know this truth. The good news is soulmates don't grow on trees, they are hard to find, and chances are your ws has not found theirs, and even if you are not his either (or he yours), you can still often find a comfortable accomodation, and by affair proofing, hopefully avoid any more soulmate crisis. And if real luckly, maybe folks find they were really soulmates afterall.<P>btw soulmates are not a function of, or about destroying marriages, it is just a simple reality. If you marry the wrong person, and have a family etc. that does not negate the fundamental weakness of the marriage, it should never have happened in the first place. What would be great is if kids could only be conceived by soulmates, but alas, one can have kids with anyone, even psychopathic sexual predators have kids, but no one in their right mind would suggest a marriage to such a person was healthy or worth maintaining. But I think you are right about something, if someone is truly your soulmate, they will not act so as to harm you. And if you cannot come to them (or they to you) cause of other obligations, they will let you go, without pressure, without guilt, it is terribly sad, and IMO one should not stand in the way of soulmates, but rather should facillitate and support their union. But the reality is, despite the so-called love people have for their spouses, it most often is more about what they want, and the investment they have in the marriage (why else would people talk so often about history, and such?), their security, the maintainence of their "picture", the worry about who will take care of them, they aren't really concerned about whether they are truly someones soulmate, they already have em, and they intend to keep em, that is what vows are all about, you don't need em if you are soulmates, it is inherent in the bond, you will never want anyone else.... you only need em if you are not soulmates, and someone finds that out.<P>

Lexxy,<BR>My answer is mainly "for the sake of the kids"<P>My son (Age 9) told me just this week. "Mom, thanks for giving in"<P>When I see the joy on my children's face for them having their dad home it makes all my pain worthwhile. <P>I just pray, and pray and pray that H doesn't put them<BR>through that again. <P>We are actively working on our marriage. I am hopeful but leary at the same time.

And I must add...<P>they don't know the "soulmate" very well - Only the good things - the things op wants her to know. Most relationships are wonderful at the beginning. WS makes up this fantasy in their head about op that their whole life would be like it has been in the short time they have been together. But NO... if they get together than years down the road they will be right in the same situation but this time the WS becomes the BS. I wish they would open their blind eyes and see that!!! Statistics show it... the Bible reveals it... What comes around goes around. You reap what you sow. <P>

snobird,<P>i didn't mean to sound ugly, but I am trying to meet EN's by my H, and I get really upset when he tells me stuff like: When I have gone to bars, I won't dance with other women, because i am afraid that OW (not me) might walk in and catch him, and he doesnt want to upset her or make her mad......<P>I am sick and tired of being #2 also, in his thoughts, and actions....if it wasnt OW, it was the gym. My H is an avid bodybuilder.<P>I just want to know what I can do to get rid of the "soulmate" feelings----fantasy feelings!<P>SnL--<P>I agree, I would NEVER want to stand in the way of soulmates being together. But my next question is, If they are so-called soulmates, why aint he with HER?<P>Im sorry about venting to everyone, but I need some answers....Krystal

I truly believe that GOD planned my marriage to my H. He knew before I was born the path that my life would take. This included having my first H. My first H had an affair and then committed suicide. I could have died too, but I became stronger. If not for that relationship, I would not have had my wonderful 17 year old son. Shortly after my first H's suicide, my current H came into my life, quite by accident. Is he my soulmate? What the HECK does that word have to do with anything. I believe God had our paths cross, we married, had twin girls and have had a life together for 16 years. For OW to say that she is my H's soulmate was a way (I think) for her to justify and AMPLIFY the feelings they had for each other. Just my opinion.<P>MOM

My favorite response is always "if they'd cheat on their spouse with you, who are they going to cheat on you with?"

faith...I ask myself that question daily.....I don't have the answers, but I know the man that I married would NEVER have done this to me----I guess I should've said: Why would anyone want an alien abducted person as their soulmate??<P>snl...I know you are hurting, so plz don't think this is insensitive, just trying to help find the answers (for myself as well as others). This is the first denial bs go too, the whole alein thingy, moose worms, etc. ....is fun, helps some make sense of horrendous pain, but it is not true of course. Every ws IS the the person you married, the affair was predictable in EVERY case if you understood them well enough, it is who they are. And that is also why the harleys say pretty much anyone can have an A. An A is nothing strange or alein, it is the predictable outcome of a dysfunctional marriage. The out of character behaviours by ws AND the bs, are nothing more complicated than the consequences of extreme stess. The reason they wandered is very important, dismissing it as something not part of them is a huge mistake. It is there a bs should focus, not that it happened, and not so much the strange behaviour (usually revolving around insensitivity, and anger, predictable behaviours of folks fighting a life and death emotional survival battle). As a bs (I am not of course), my first consideration would be, now that I have been presented with extremely important insight into my spouse, as well as my marriage, is do I really want to be married to this person. Quite often the answer should be no, but far too often, the bs fights a fight not worth winning (the spouse returning) even if they accomplish that immediate goal. IMO the crisis of an A should be about one thing, and one thing only, do we really fit each other, are we really in-love, and if the answer is no, then end it, for their own mental health, cause it will never be a nurturing marriage. <P>Now some can wrest a marriage of accomodation, many do not need the deep connections we all agonize over, life is mundane in many respects, it is a contractural sort of thing, one can negotiate a EN quid pro quo marriage, it is an individual choice, revealed through radical honesty, and poja. What doesn't work is if one spouse hides their feelings or their needs so as not to "hurt" the other spouse, but in so doing they hurt them even more...sometimes.<P>faith...I don't really know---I have forgiven him, but still see the lies and cheating....<P>snl.....IMO it has nothing to do with forgiving, it has everything to do with a cold hard calculated assessment of who you are, who he is, and whether the gamble (of remaining married, is always a gamble) is worth taking. Unfortuneately folks get all caught up in the pomp and circumstance of forgiveness, and acceptance, and the grand quest of recovery..... life is not like that, and life does not reward intent, it deals in reality, and the reality is many folks are not marriage material, and will let you down over and over and over, in a million different ways. Does not even mean they are evil, they may even be nice people, they just don't fit you, or you them, and out of that misfit arise the affairs, the neglect, the selfishness, the lies, the indifference, the blindness...... and so forth IMO.<P>faith...It hurts (as everyone knows). My H was never a dishonest person, until this......he was disgusted by people that lied.<P>snl...He is exactly who he always was, any effort by himself or you to think otherwise, is nothing more than rationalization. What's more, if you put him under a microscope and take him apart with psychological tools, you will find there were plenty of signs and symtons, you just couldn't see them, or ignored them.<P>faith....He told me yesterday that he has become everything that he despised.<P>snl...Maybe, maybe not. An episode of lieing and infidelity does not necessarily mean one is of bad character, it certainly could, it can also mean the marriage is wrong, or it can mean the marriage needs (and can be) fixed, and the behaviour was only symptomatic, once healed never to return. My trouble with a lot of the stuff discussed here is it is not wide-ranging enough, when we limit our understanding to a few "politically correct" explanations, we oft times do not get to the bottom of things, and struggle on needlessly for years, maybe lifetimes, never getting it right. <P>faith....The answer is that I love him, and know the real person behind this "alien abduction"..lol<P>snl...I ask this often, cause it is so interesting, and so personal for each of us, ignore if you want..... but why do you love him, what does that really mean to you, how do you know it is love and not need, want, history, fear of starting over, a desire for the "picture" at any cost? If you could go back and do it all over again, knowing what you do about yourself now, and your H.... would you choose him again over all men? And if so, why, keeping in mind that many others also say their spouse is the "best" choice, how can their be so many best choices? What makes this one the best fit for you? Knowing he clearly has committment issues?<BR><p>[This message has been edited by sad_n_lonely (edited September 24, 2001).]