I'm so incredibly down today. I feel like I've hit rock bottom. My H is angrier as October 1st draws near...keeps saying he can't wait so he can be in peace. I wonder if all this time since d-day, he's ever really waffled or if it was my hopefulness and desperation for his love? This morning, he started to pick apart everything I was doing or wasn't doing. Basically, for the last several days, I have been under fire. As his anger level rises, he says, "these last few days have proven that I'm definitely doing the right thing and will not look back. You're a nag and you just won't stop." His comments are in response to my request for a plan to communicate our separation to his parents. He refuses to see a need for one but I have become increasingly more sorrowful as the days plug forward...<P>I feel lost once again and feel I've lost him.

Terrified, don't despair just yet. When my H left his exact words were "This marriage is over, we will NEVER get back together. Don't hold out hope that we ever will , because I am positive. I hate this house." This was our dream house that we had built together, picked out everything together and it was HIS idea to build it in the first place (and he had been very excited about it)! I think it was about 5-6 weeks after he left that I got my first signs of warmth from him again. He told me he missed me, wasn't sure what he wanted, asked for more time etc. Those things kind of came out of the blue when he said them. But we made it!

Same here. My H said "I can never come back to this house.", "I will never look back, I'm doing the right thing", "I'm too stubborn, I'll never change my mind", "I've made my decision, it is too late to go back."<P>He's moving back in about a week or two (after we make all the arrangements, buy a new bed, burn everything OW ever touched - NO REALLY, etc.)<P>I'm not saying this will happen to you, but just remember that it is the fog talking right now. You won't know the truth for quite some time, and it may be he stays in the fog forever. Only he can determine that. His anger is most likely directly inward and he takes it out on you (I'm living proof of that). Ignore him as best you can and do not fuel him. It will be much easier on you once he leaves, it will. Just stay out of his way until Oct 1st comes around, and stop talking to him when he is angry. Preserve your sanity. Nothing you say will change him moving out at this point, just let it happen and then deal.<P>Good luck. This is the toughest time, but it's also the time when things will start to come together for YOU and you will be able to work on yourself. It doesn't seem possible, but it's true.<P><<<<<<<terrified>>>>>>><BR>HbH

FD, You will never know how very much I needed to see your post right now. I am thanking God right now that you saw my post and answere it. How in the world did you survive? When he left, what did you do? How did you act when you saw him? How long was he gone? Did he get his own apartment? <P>Sorry for all the questions. I tremble all the time now and cry. Although I still continue to come to work each day, I feel very much alone. <P>God bless and HUGSSS for being there.

Hi HBH, I'm happy for you and inspired to remain hopeful. Somehow, I feel it in my bones that his love for me remains. His anger has just taken over. <P>How long were your separated?

I've been separated for 2 months. The husband told me that he wanted a divorce and was 100% sure. I wish I had some hopefull or good news to share, but I don't.<P>I filed for divorce because I wasn't going to wait on him to do it. I felt that he would hold out as long as he could and then when he felt the time was right (whether it be 5 months or 2 years) he would come back to me. I'm having second thoughts about filing for divorce but I have to get this done and over with. My H never made one single effort in wanting to make this marriage work. I don't think he gave much thought about the things he is giving up and that if he did put effort into working on our marriage, we would be back together. He wants his freedom, he said he is happy without me. I gave him a list last Friday of the bills he will be responsible to pay once the divorce is final, I don't think he realized that once his portion of the bills are paid, he won't have any money to survive.<P>My H would have to give me 110% effort and change his ways before I can consider taking him back. But yes, I am having second thoughts about this but I know just by his actions and words, he want's out of this marriage. He don't call or contact me at all and is (from what I heard) living with a woman now because he has no place to go.

<<<[QUOTE]Originally posted by Terrified:<BR>[B]FD, You will never know how very much I needed to see your post right now. I am thanking God right now that you saw my post and answere it. How in the world did you survive? When he left, what did you do? How did you act when you saw him? How long was he gone? Did he get his own apartment? >>>> <P>{{{Hugs Terrified}}}! That's the main reason I still lurk. I had people in various places give me encouragement when all seemed hopeless and I know how much it helped me. This is apt to be long! I just crumbled when he moved out. Thougth I would die. There had been a 2 week sapn in between when he told me he wanted a divorce and he actually moved out. Some nights during that time he came home, some he didn't. Lied to me about where he was of course. When he was here he was VERY cold. Would come in late, go straight to the guest room and slam the door. One morning while he was getting ready for work he started SCREAMING becasue there was a single dog hair on his suit (from his dog that he used to love, but didn't anymore!) But all the books I was reading said to keep him at home if at all possible. I was making NO progress with him here. He was just getting angrier and angrier. Then one night he came home from work, grabbed a suitcase and announced that he coudlnt' stand to be in our house anymore, the guilt was suffocating him and he had "rented his own apartment in a scummy neighborhood". the reality was that he was moving into the OW's apartment (which was actually in the scummy neighborhood he told me he was moving to, that's as close to the truth as he got). He never took more than a week's worth of clothes at a time, or anything else from the house. He would come over to get more clothes or cut the grass, but he still wasn't nice. I would try to be cheerful and when he left I would curl up on the floor and cry for hours (I was a mess). One day (after being gone for about 5 weeks) he came and asked to take the dog for afew days because he was "lonely in his apartment" and wanted to take him to a Halloween party (I remember trying to drag him to a Halloween party once and he whined about going becasue he "hated parties"). He said he would bring the dog back in afew days. Afew days later he showed up after work with no dog. I started to cry and he started yelling about how he wasn't feeling well and only came over to look for medicine and he was living in a dump in a gang infested neighborhood etc. etc. I just sat there crying and he suddenly said "I'm just not sure what I want." Big switch from never getting back together. Then I asked if I could havea little hug. To my shock he agreed held me really tight for about 5 minutes. then he said "Please give me a little more time, I just need more time." The next day he called and told me how much he missed me and our life together. That weekend he moved home for about a week, but it was the first phony recovery. He wasn't ready. He acted really weird. I'm pretty sure he told the OW he wasn't sure if he was going to stay with me or not, that's why I didn't get a tattle tale phone call right away from her. The next 4 months were a rollercoaster. Not fun. I fianlly got sick of there being a revoloving door and more or less instituted Plan B. He freaked and was home for good withing 2 weeks. That time it was obvious he was sure, and he was happy to be home. Within minutes of him breaking it off wiht the OW she called me to tell on him. I think he had just pulled out of her driveway to come home lol. So altogether he was gone for about 5 months, not counting afew days here and there. Afew times he even showed up here at 3am and spent the night. By then I'm sure the OW had started to LB big time. It was always after we spent time together that she knew about (we spent all of Christmas together, I'm sure that didn't go over big). I know how he is. A good screaming match would push him right out the door ASAP.

Wow, FD, I didn't realize how similar our stories were...Hmmm.. it seems to be a common script from alot of what I read...<P>Terried, my H left in early June, said all those things. Was SURE about divorce for a total of about 2 weeks (I also went to plan B), made all these threats, tried to make me file (but I refused, said he had to do it), etc. Of course, he never did file (they usually don't - just talk). Another couple of weeks, and starting changing his tune and wanting "more time". (we also had a false recovery back in May but were only seperated for a few days prior to that). Come early July, we start having lots of talks, he is talking alot, but not doing (EA still going on). Then it's over, completely - end of July, I see some major changes, more and more every week, and now here we are. No contact letter written, he has not seen/talked to her in almost 10 weeks, we're in counseling, he's in individual counseling, and he's moving back home in a week or two.<P>He's been gone since the beginning of June, so that would be...4 1/2 - 5 months (he is moving back in a week or two and giving notice for November 1st). <P>Wow, has it been that long?? I never thought I would have survived this long back in June... Hang in there terrified, give it up to God, you have no control over what will happen, so just work on yourself and get yourself ready to accept WHATEVER may happen. If you don't DO that, if you are not ready to accept whatever outcome may be, then you will have a much harder time recovering (yes, even if your H comes home, it will be much harder because YOU did not become stronger, you need more time apart to find YOU). Only then can you truly heal.<P>It sounds stupid, but it's the honest to God truth. <P>HbH

<<<[QUOTE]Originally posted by hurtbyhubby:<BR>[B]Wow, FD, I didn't realize how similar our stories were...Hmmm.. it seems to be a common script from alot of what I read...>>>><P>Lol. I'm convinced that it's all in an EMR instruction booklet somewhere. Funny how OP and non repentant WS all say that their affair is so different and so special, but yet you keep seeing the same few basic stories over and over and over. It's like the EMR instruction manual has 3 or 4 scenario outlines, and then the WS/OP get to fill in the specific details.

Hugs to you for responding so candidly. All I can say is that I admire each of you for the strength you've described and for what each of you has had to endure. <P>It actually feels good to validate H's anger from your stories. It sounds as if his anger is a positive sign because it expresses feelings...feelings he says he longer has. Yet it's such a passionate anger. I pray that, in his solitude, this passionate anger is released and transferred to passionate love for his family. <P>

Hi again HBH and FD, Just wondered, based on the responses I received from another thread, what did you tell people when your H's left?

"I never look back"<BR>"Once I make a decision, I stick with it"<BR>"You know I'm going to divorce you as soon as I can" (at LEAST 200 times for this one!)<BR>"Our marriage was never meant to be"<BR>"I never really loved you"<BR>"I never knew what true love was until I met her."<BR>"I cannot imagine putting up with one more minute of this life"<BR>"I knew the moment I said 'I do' that we weren't right for each other and I had made a big mistake"<P>and my personal favorite...<P>"Do you know how many times I wished you'd died in an accident so that I could be released from these pits of hell?"<P>Heck, I didn't know we had a problem!<P>I do remember there were many more, I just don't remember them all. He, however, remembers NONE OF THEM!!<P>BTW, my name's Lori, his is Robert and he did move out and in with PT for 7 months. He's been back now almost 2 years and life is quite lovely! Our marriage gets stronger and more wonderful every day and, to tell the truth, though I wish we had accomplished it another way, I wouldn't trade it for the one we had. I guess I didn't know what good really was.<P>Hang in there, Honey. Don't nag, don't educate, don't try to stop him. Stand stong. You have it in you. You can learn and grow without him there, and, as Bozo's Deb told me on my very first post, it WILL get easier. 'Course I didn't believe her, figured she just didn't love her h like I did mine, I was NEVER gonna recover! She was right. <P>Keep reading this site, learn more and more about Plan A. Counsel with the Harley's if possible. (I lost my job in this mess so it wasn't for me, but they are very good.)<P>Most importantly, don't lose sight of yourself or what's really important. Do not allow anyone else's words or actions make you stray from the course of doing what YOU believe is right. His, especially. In two years, he won't remember most of this and what he does, he won't want to admit.<P>You can do this. It's hard, the hardest thing you've ever done..ALMOST as hard as recovery! But you can do it. <P>Hang in there,<P>Love,<P>Lori<P>

Dear T,<P>You are getting some great support here. Your H shows anger. From one angle it looks hopeless. From another angle you can see he still has feelings. No kidding, you can use that principle with many other situations. The glass is 1/2 full or 1/2 empty scenario. The optimist vs the pessimist? Within reason of course. <P>I can concur. H went out there and said many things. I did not realize what a witch I was. Wow, news to me. OW made sure she painted me as bad as she could. She had to lie a lot but oh well, it worked......for a while. <P>See, the thing in your favor is that you and your H have history. Don't write off your whole life because a floozie has a few weeks with your H....... Your H will come around. How long and will you be there or want to be there is up to you. <P>Mine was out for 5 months. Can back 3 times prematurely. Mrs. Rabbit claimed 3 pregs. Each story may have a different twist but the plot is the same 'ol same 'ol.....<BR>Eventually, they run out of the adrenaline that the A needs to keep it afloat. If OW and H have a real thing, then he will do the letting go and stay there. You will know it. But as long as you see signs of feelings, then you know the OW doesn't have her hooks in him as much as she'd like you to think......<P>So, when your H babbles and runs off at the mouth like that, you will learn (it takes time) but you will learn to let it slide off your back better and see past the babbling. You are then in a better position to 'consider the source' of the babbling and learn not to rely on it's contents. <P>What I have noticed (even in my case), I gained strength when I realized that I was not a wall flower. Had a few compliments and stuff come my way (nothing bad). Enough to boost my ego (a couple of good dreams helped also, he he he) and you know what? I became more confident that I could make it on my own, if I chose it. That also helped me not get as hurt when the WS would babble and Mrs Psyco Babble Rabbit would spew off her acid mouth.....<P>So whatever it takes (within reason) to boost your self confidence, do it. Don't be surprised if the WS and OW notice and 'get scared'. Mrs. Rabbit told H to watch out for me because I was getting cold and professional. Whatever that meant, OW could see that she could not push my buttons as easily and she did not like that......<P>L. <BR>

Hi Lostva and O, It's the weekend and I'm still hearing from some wonderful people. Thanks for saving me with your words and your time especially on a weekend. Just wondering, O & L, what did you tell people when your H left or did he deal with it?

Hi,<P>I'll jump in if it's okay...my H didn't say anything, not even to his parents, for at least a month. Then he 'sort of' told one or two people, and word spread.<P>I didn't tell many either, because I was hopeful he would come back soon, but it didn't happen. My son ended up letting the cat out of the bag to my PIL, and I was really angry about that, because h had said he would tell them. The fog, the fog.<P>In the end I have told more people than him. There are still good friends of ours that have no idea, and it's been 12 weeks since he moved out.<P>Jacky

<<< <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Terrified:<BR><B>Hi again HBH and FD, Just wondered, based on the responses I received from another thread, what did you tell people when your H's left?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>>>>><P> I told everyone he moved out and some of the reasons he gave. Basically everyone was convinced he'd gone completely mental lol. My MIL kept saying "I know he has a brain tumor, he must have a brain tumor."<BR> He avoided his family and old friends like the plague during the A. He did tell his best friend that we were separating because it "Just wasnt' working out." This freind asked him if he was having an A and he said "Absolutely not." Other than that he told no one. The people he works with never had any idea we were ever apart. Since I didn't know "for sure" about the A, I only discussed my suspicions with afew very close, carefully chosen people. those were the same people I talked to when it was confirmed.

Hi T,<P>In my case, OW was a threat. Within 6 weeks from d/d, OW threatened to turn me in to the authorities and take my child away from me. She already had taken my H (EA/PA stuff) and they were planning to divorce their respective spouses and run away. At that point, OW felt she had control to dictate to me how she was planning to run my family. This was after she told me in a letter that her having an A with my H was not her problem. <P>So, based on the above and a bit more, I told my parents, SIL/BIL, cousin, his parents, elders and my boss. Eventually due to my repetative anxiety attacks, I had to inform my staff. OW threatend at one point to inform my employer of my 'bad character'. Claiming she knew many people where I worked. She sent me an e-mail showing that she knew my cell phone and work #. She already had our house phone number. So I had to talk to HR. They were on alert in case the letter that she threatened to send ever made it to them, they would notify me. It never did. <P>At that time, I did not realize that OW was just a plain 'ol threatening woman. That was what she did to try to control people. So I countered by calling her bluffs and strengthening my support group. I also watched the movie Fatal Attraction and say many similarities in attitudes and thought patterns. I was afraid she might try to take our son from school and since at one point, I did have a restraining order against WS, I notified the school front office, the teacher, his before schoold day care and after school day care. <P>Think that was too many people? Well, since the police were called out and H was having angry outbursts along with me crying so much, I notified the 2 neighbors on either side. Even asked them to watch out if OW came by, I gave the description of her car and said she was a 44-45 year old Chinese lady with shoulder length or longer hair. <P>H was angry but that did not stop him. He did understand based on her threats why I took action the way I did. However, whether H understood or not, I informed who I did for my support. Not everyone knows all the details. Some know more than others. There is regret as to how much some know but even in that arena, if I were to do it all over again, with the same circumstances, most of those people would still be notified. <P>You see, our lives touch many others. For someone to go off and do such horrendous acts against a family and not expect others to be effected, is stupid. More fog. In my H's case, discplinery action was taken against in him our religion. He was not sorry (at the beginning) and told the elders that. So they had no choice be to remove him. <P>OW has no real religious beliefs herself. She makes it up as she goes along and therefore has no respect for the beliefs of others. In her e-mails to me she said some very disrespectful things about my beliefs, family and friends. Even accused my FIL of having an A with me (or visa versa). Again with the full intent of making me angry. <P>Once her tactics were revealed and I learned how to handle her, it became much easier. Without the bullying, the OW was renedered helpless. See, the OWs who are agressive and manipulative, have to make the W look bad. They can't look good on their own. They try but eventually they have to put us down. Why? Because they can not continue on their own merit. At least, not the one I dealt with. <P>Anyone want her???? She has been dubbed: Mrs. Psyco Babble Rabbit. I think you know how she got that name. LOL!!!!<P>L. <BR>

I told my mother he was gone and the rest was personal. I told my brother the same thing. I told no one else anything. Not b/c I was ashamed, but because I figured it was no one's business! If anyone had courage to ask if he was gone(everyone knows I value my privacy), I'd have said yes. I would have answered no more questions. One uncle (my very favorite!) stopped by (he can see my house from down the road - farmland you see) and said "I haven't seen the Concorde lately?" I said "Robert's driving it" and left it at that. He simply gave me a hug and said "If we can do anything, let us know, ok?" And left it at that. When Robert came home, they were the first to welcome him, no questions asked.<P>His parents knew, he took PT there right away and she was included in all family stuff for the whole winter (great t-day and Christmas, huh?). He had stopped by his mom's and told her he wasn't in love with me, actually told her I wasn't in love with HIM, before he left me, but it didn't take her too long to figure stuff out and she was on the phone, asking me if there was someone else. I answered yes and cried, but no details.<P>Kristin was 15 and so she shared with her best friends, of course, which was fine with me. It was up to her what she wanted to do. She's relatively private, too, though, and didn't tell most people. In fact, if anyone called, she simply said he wasn't here and offered to take a message! I didn't go that far. Hey, she needed to do what she needed to do.<P>I didn't do it to protect him, although, once he decided to come home, I'm glad I did. Once family knows the sordid details, many have a difficult accepting recovery. Mine didn't know so they simply followed my lead with forgiveness and acceptance.<P>He didn't get off "scot-free". He had me to face, Kristin to face. And, to tell you the truth, as far as I'm concerned, that's all that matters. But he also had to deal with his family (who were thrilled he was home), his co-workers (who knew her well) and his clients. He lost one very important client b/c of the A. That's enough for anyone, I figure.<P>I used this board as support. I actually met a dear friend on this board who lived TWO BLOCKS from where Robert and PT lived in the next city and we could share everything.<P>Her H, btw, has been gone 2 years. She has been in Plan A the entire time b/c of her little one. He now wants to come home....she doesn't want him. She's not angry, they have become amazing friends and co-parents, she's just very happy and comfortable with her life as it is. He's Plan-Aing her to death, but, although there is great fondness, there is no more marriage.<P>That was not to discourage you, but to bring you hope. If you use the principles you will learn here, you will be a success, no matter what. Robert and I are madly in love and are constantly teased about acting like kids, even though the beginning of recovery was touch and go. My friend is laughing and looking forward to life, raising her son, and is full of more confidence and spirit that she ever has been in her life. The two of them have a wonderful relationship (once he got past being angry she didn't want him anymore!). And the little one is thriving. Either way, the principles here will help you grow into a wonderful and happy life IF you let them. And they may just repair a marriage along the way. We both consider ourselves MB success stories in progress!!<P>Hang in there.<P>Love,<P>Lori

My H told everyone it was because of "differences about raising the kids", oh that really got me mad. I didn't even bother replying to those people if they asked because I would have just lost it "it's because he's having a fuc*ing affair!!".<P>I didn't really tell anyone. They notice, just ask if they can help, that's it. <P>Only one other person knows it was an actual PA, but lots of other people know about the OW, and one can only assume that they put two and two together...<P>HbH

Hello everyone and thanks...I'm feeling low today. I just got back from having brunch with a friend and her child. My D loved it. Coming home to my H who's working on moving out really scares me. Yesterday, he acts very attracted to me and initiates intimacy but then says, I need to miss you, don't give in??? <P>Today, I mentioned to him that if he ever feels differently, there is this place I frequent called Marriagebuilders that has people like us that can help us...people that have left for 3 weeks, 1 month, 2, 4, 6...and recovered. He responded sarcastically, "How about six years?" My heart sank and I left to work on the outside.<P>It's just a really very hard time. My moods are so erratic.