My H moved out 5 months ago. Although he is in his own apartment, he has told me he is pursuing a relationship with his OW. And he says he wants a divorce. He says there is no way he is coming back to the marriage. He has even introduced her to his mother! <P>I can't believe this. We have been married almost 20 years. I don't want a divorce. I was happy with him. I love him with all my heart and can't imagine being with anyone else. I can't imagine him being with anyone else, but he is.

Hello and Welcome to Marriage Builders!<P>Marriages have been saved here!!!!!<P>First, I would like to share two links with you. Just click on the underlined links here, and read –><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi10_tour.html" TARGET=_blank>Tour of Marriage Builders</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000553.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome</A>. <P>Please read everything you can on this site, post and read often!! <P>I have been betrayed and betrayer, so I have the dubious honor of knowing what infidelity does from BOTH SIDES of the situation. <P>I believe in the concepts espoused here, if applied properly. One idea that has worked *wonders* for some couples is Plan A. Read about it here –><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>What Are Plan A and Plan B</A>.<P>Use what you learn here to make your marriage a safe place where you do your best to meet the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A> of your spouse,and avoid <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A> whenever possible. . When a decision must be made, use the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>POJA</A> to determine the final outcome that you can both agree upon.<P>Many couples find that counseling is VERY helpful, and the counseling provided here is excellent for several reasons; but the most important is that it goes along with the concepts here. Check it out here –> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html" TARGET=_blank>Counsel Link</A><P>Again, welcome to our community, and feel free to write often and ask lots of questions!<P><BR>

Your marriage isn't necessarily over. But if you read read and read more and more on here, you'll get a good understanding of how you can do things to make the chance of reconciliation possible.<P>Start with learning what LB's (love busters) are, and don't do them. Read up on EN's (emotional needs) and see what you and your H (husband) needs. Then read on plan A.. which is where you can put the LB and EN info to work.<P>There is no guarantee that following the Harley concepts will work for your M, but they do give it the best chance. They worked for me, and I got my WH back with me, and we're doing well (in recovery for 4 months now).<P>Karen<P>Oh, and btw... I was told by my H that getting a divorce was his final decision too. That was a couple of weeks before he came home... for good.

I have lurked here for quite a while. I have read all the stuff and agree it sounds good. But it is so hard to do Plan A and avoid LB's. I can do it during one conversation (our conversations are all on the phone now) and feel good afterwards. But then he doesn't call for a few days and I realize nothing has changed. So I call him and blow up. LB big time. Then I realize that is exactly the wrong thing to do so I call back and apologize.<P>We were in marriage counseling for eight months last year. I thought it worked. I guess I was wrong.

Hello wants to be married.<P>I am a new member here. My H moved out 2 years ago. I tried Plan A and Plan B but he did not come back. I was devastated. Today I am Proud of Me because I was able to accept that the marriage was over and move on. <P>Has your H wavered yet? Is he still coming over to sleep with you? <P>My experience is that if he is doing those things, you have a chance at getting him back. If not, it is much tougher.<P>

The 'trick' (if you want to call it that) to doing a great plan A is to not LB. That's hard work, isn't it? But it is so vitally important if you want to create that safe environment for your H to come home to.<P>You do NOT want to give him any reason to stay away. He's probably rationalized much of his behaviour due to your actions during the marriage. If those actions are gone, then he can't rationalize it, and it helps to pull him out of the fog.<P>Karen<BR>

Hi Proud of Me. No, he is not coming over. He has only been over once in the past four months. We haven't slept together since March. He says he cares about me, even says he still loves me, but that he doesn't love me the way he needs to to stay married to me. If he says he still loves me, that means there is still a chance for the marriage, right? How can he leave me if he still loves me? <P>I know I shouldn't LB, but it is so hard. Things were so good in our marriage. I believe, and our therapist agrees, that he went through a typical mid-life crisis, got depressed, and blamed the depression on our marriage. Things were GOOD! Why can't he just see this is his own problem, not a problem with our marriage? <P>If he would just stop seeing his OW, I believe we would have a chance. But he refuses. I have asked and asked. If this divorce really isn't about her, then why won't he stop seeing her? Doesn't he have that much respect for me and our 20 years together? Why does he need to be with her in order to get through this separation? If it were truly about the marriage, wouldn't he WANT to spend this time alone, rather than with her?

I would have to ask you a few questions about all of this to understand.<P>I think that many wives (me included) use numbers to mean quality. That is, 20 years of marriage doesnt mean that you both were emotionally compatible for 20 years.<P>I learned that my husband and I had stopped being a couple a long time before the EMA. This was difficult for me to comprehend while I was trying to win him back but I do understand it now. <P>It's hard to judge what is going on between him and the OW right now from the little you posted but the most important thing, IMO, is that you don't LB, and that you don't try to force him to come back to you. <P>My H is also still with OW. I can say that today without falling apart. I am Proud of me!

Hi WtbM,<P>You have been reading here a while. That is good. Please take a look at the reference threads posted by Nyneve. She has been here a long long time (not old just wise, right Sheryl?).. Her direction will benefit you and help you through these hard times. <P>The LB part is an easy folly that many BS's find hard to fight. Especially if the WS and OW use it as bait to try to make the BS stumble. <P>That is where those reference threads really come in handy. While the thoughts and experiences here are good, the real working advice comes from the info on the site. Gaining proper understanding of plan A and B. Proper implementation have saved some additional grief and heartache. <P>When I first came here in Jan 01. Many who are not posting here today reached out and guided me. You need to remember that I am a bit of a stubborn 'ol girl and needed constant reminders. I tried real hard. Eventually had to stop trying and start listening. Then it sank in. It is a good thing that those older ones did not stop directing me back to the writeups about plan a and b. It worked. I did not implement it as well as others but H is home working on his attitude and making some progress. <P>Those that have lived through my experience here with me have witnessed much, yet I am only one of the many stories here. Bottom line is that I learned to strive to become a better person. So much so that OW and H noticed. Inadvertanly caused OW to LB over and over again. Ah..... plan B required that I not force anyone to do anything, just let he LB come naturally. My impatience hindered my recovery. <P>Is your marriage over? Well, may be not. Your H is very confused. Now is the time to read up and build up your strength. I don't mean super mom or wife, I mean your will to survive. <P>One day, when your H wakes up, he will need that type of support. <P>Take Care, <BR>L. <P>

Hi WTBM-<P>I don't know if I'll be much help, but I thought any insight might be helpful. I find myself in a similar situation. I have been married 10 years. Although our marriage wasn't perfect we always stuck together. My WH has been gone 8 months. He has professed all along that he wants a divorce and although he is madly in love with the OW, the divorce doesn't have a thing to do with her, he would be getting one anyway so she is just a bonus. BULL****! My WH is 32 the OW is 21. He has had a troubled past (see my threads on the divorced/divorcing posts). I firmly believe he is very confused and experiencing a life crisis. She is young and away at college. Her age and distance allow him to be boosted when he needs it without the responsibilities of a real relationship. <P>We have four children together and I really want this marriage to be saved in spite of the problems. For a long time I thought I was Plan A'ing very well, but I wasn't really because in the end impatience would get the best of me. Now thanks to the advice of some more experienced people here I think I have a handle on it. Is it easy? No way! I have had to bite my tongues so many times in the past couple of weeks and I have had to put up with things that drive me nuts, but the end result is that I am noticing little changes in him. He seems more comfortable and although he is very involved with the OW, now that I think I have a handle on Plan A and what it does to not only him, but me as well I know I will continue.<P>By the way, after months of listening to him threaten to file for divorce amongst other things I filed myself. I did it to protect myself and the kids financially. Now that I have the legal protection that filing granted me I have no intention of rushing the actual divorce. <P>I guess what I'm trying to say is that only you will know when you've had enough. Try focusing on yourself and Plan A no matter how hard it gets. I know your frustration and pain all too well, may it be of some comfort to know that you are not alone.<P>POM- I like your insights. You should be proud. I found particularily interesting your comment on sex. My WH was still coming over and seeking it even when I was almost full term ( I had our fourth child in July) after the baby was born he announced he was no longer going to lead me on and was going to pursue his relationship with the OW publicly. Then I filed and things got pretty tense for awhile. Out of the blue three weeks ago my WH showed up in the middle of the night. He said he missed the kids, but it was way too late to see them, he then proceeded to initiate sex. I turned him down saying it wasn't right. The bad thin is that because I thought the incident meant something, which I'm sure it did, I pushed too hard and majorly LB'd. My point? I think that if you sit back and Plan A and let them deal with their confusion the WS's actions say a lot. The key is to be patient and let things play out.<P>By the way, I'm proud of all of you!<P>K

Thanks still reeling. I just wish his OW were 21! They are both middle aged. She is a single mom with a good job, the same job as my H. That's how they met, at work. So no one can look at them and say the relationship is ridiculous on the face of it. They have the obvious things in common. <P>But I know the relationship is ridiculous because it is based on him running from our marriage and refusing to deal with his own mid-life crisis. And I know that she is a fundamentally selfish person, one who would sleep with a MM, and there is no way she can truly make him happy. <P>I just wish he would SEE THAT!

I'm moving this to the top just because I am sitting here feeling so ANGRY! <P>So many people on this board say to trust in God. Well, I am trying to. But I don't know what God thinks he is doing! <P>In my opinion, having an EMR is about the worst thing you can do to someone. Violating your vowes, destroying someone you love that way. But yet my H and his OW just get to go off and have a happy life together while I am stuck dealing with this misery. How can God allow that?! Why do they get to be happy when they have hurt me so badly?!