STL/Z,<P> It has been awhile since I have posted on the forum. I have been kind of closing up a little bit lately. My WS didn't have to go to court last month. She agreed for me to keep the kids. I don't know what will happen to my stepdaughter. I think that my WS would be happy with her staying with her parents and her and the OM lives happily ever after on their own. <P>I on the other hand I have gone from being ready to take on life again to completely wanting to give up on everything. The attacks that happened on the 11th of September really brought me down. Everyone spouse called up here to see if they were ok and if they were watching the news. I got calls from all of my family members and from the friend that got my WS and I together. I really felt like all of the oaths that I have taken in my life have been broken. My wedding vows and the oath that I took to protect this nation of ours. I know that I shouldn’t feel this way, but I feel like everything that has happened since Jan is my fault. I went to this friend and told her that I was ready to give up on everything and that I was going to reenlist in the Marine Corps. I was ready to give the kids back to my WS and request overseas assignment and never come back. I felt like the kids had their new dad. I felt like they didn't need me anymore. I was just getting in the way. That if I left then everyone would be happier. That week in Sept is hard for me. The attacks that happened on the 11th, my daughter's illness three years ago, my grandfather's death, and that Friday the 14th was my seventh wedding ann. I put my WS's wedding rings in the case that one of my Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medals came in with the uniform emblems that I wore the last time that I danced with my WS. I gave this to this friend to hold so when the kids are old enough that they could see them. This friend tells me that she will talk to me and that she is my friend. Here husband is the jealous type. He thought that I might try to go after his wife. I really laughed at this. We are only friends and that I could never be anything else with her. I feel like I am the bad guy in all of this mess. I feel like I am getting what I deserve. I asked this friend some questions about my WS being faithful to me. She answered them for me. I really hurt after this conversation. I then talked to my WS the next day and she said that she never cheated on me. Even the night that she didn't come home until 11:45 in the morning from work. That she didn't sleep with anyone else while we were married. As far as my WS thinks it our marriage was over the day that she walked out the door. I find it hard to believe that she didn't cheat on me. Here is what I have seen after looking back at everything. Here is how I see it.<P>Nov&Dec: My WS starts talking about the OM all of the time and stops talking about the other friends that she had at work. I start to get 5 or 6 unknown callers a day even on Saturday. Every time that they call is during the day when I am supposed to be at work. The unknown caller never left a message.<P>Jan: The phone calls continued. My WS started to withdraw from me. She gets a present from the OM and she shows it off to her mother in my living room right in front of me. I give her my present and hardly get any response. Then the problems really start and she asked me to leave the apt. I did and went to my parents’ house to talk. After this talk I return to my apt. I tell her that I don't want to leave, because I love her and the kids too much. The next day she comes to see me at work and tells me that she is going to take the kids over to her parents’ house for a while. The unknown callers stopped that day, and the only time that I got them was when the kids and her would come over while I was at work to have lunch or to just get out of her parents house. Five days later she tells me that she wants a divorce and that it is the money and not feelings that have kept her from filing already. I tried to convince her that I loved her and that we could fix this.<BR>Feb: I am still trying to work on the marriage and my great-grandmother died. The day that we buried her I got the filling papers for the divorce.<P>The rest you guy know. I am sorry, but you don't leave your husband and in four months give up your kids and move in with the OM and try and say that you didn't cheat. I think that she wanted to be with him and didn't want that on her conscious. Do you guys think that I am stupid or what??<P>Indy <BR>

Indy,<P>Did you see the responses to your post yesterday? Read them then let us know how you're doing today.<P> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/012931.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/012931.html</A> <P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

STL/Z,<P> It seems that the other post got deleted with the change over in servers. I am still having a hard time. It doesn't seem to be getting better. I really miss my famliy, but I know that my WS dosen't and most likely never will. I am really ready to throw in the towel on everything including myself. I have to continually tell myself that you can make it jsut to get from day to day. My children I feel need to be with their sister and their mother. I just think that it would be for the best if I just stepped out of the picture. I can't handle any of this anymore. I can't get memories out of my head. I have started to wonder if she has lied to me from the beginning. I just wish I could have giving her the farytail life that she wanted. I don't know maybe the OM can give it to her.<P>Indy

Hey Indy,

Don't give up, brother!

We all feel really down sometimes.
You've got your kids. Concentrate on them. Love them, make them feel special. I'm sure they miss their Mom. Give each one a special day. Be strong, brother, it will get better.

-AD

<small>[ June 30, 2002, 01:47 AM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

Indy,<P>Hi, so sorry to hear you are still so down. I'm really concerned about about you as you seem to be having a really hard time these days. I had asked you in the other, now missing thread, if you were on anti-depresents. It really sounds to me like you may need them. Have you considered this? <P>I know that you are in a lot of pain and this is a terrible time for you. You cannot control what your WS does, but you can control what you do. Please do not give up on yourself and your children before until you get some help with your depression.<P>One point I do not recall. Would your WS be willing to take your children? It seems from what you have said that she is too self-obsorbed to take care of them. Could you please clarify this for me?<P>Z

STL/Z,<P> I am going to see my lawyer tomorrow. I am going to tell him that I aM giving the kids back to my WS. I am going to sign my rights over to her, so when her and the OM get married they can raise the kds together. I will also request overseas orders to somewhere. I know that you are disappointed in me. I just can't do this anymore. I can't be a father anymore not without being a husband to my WS. I just can't deal with it anymore. Besides, this will make my WS happy. Her and that OM can get a nice house and raise the kids together and I will not be there to get in the way. I hope that she has enjoyed destroying me. The nice man that I was is gone and he will not come back. I will make sure that my parents and family will be able to see the kids. I will hopefully leave soon. I will post again when it is all finished. Thanks for your support through this. I know that I am a failure. So, I will most likely fail for the rest of my life. <P>Indy<p>[ October 16, 2001: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]

Indy, Indy....<P>Do you realize that your wife and OM will probably not be together long enough to raise your children? For all you know this man is a child molester. And you are willing to sign your kids over to him? For one thing, if your wife has a lick of sense, she will not allow the OM to have legal rights to her children.<P>Am I disappointed in you? No, I’m concerned about you because it looks like you may make a life altering decision for your children and for yourself while you are in a very very bad emotional state. <P>I have asked you a few times about your getting antidepressants and you are not answering me. Why is that? If you are around tonight, then please answer me.<P>I’m going to go cook dinner for my kids and then I’ll check back. I would like to “talk” to you a little more here before you make such a rash decision. So I’ll be looking for you and maybe we can talk for a while.<P>Z

Indy,<BR>I'm not familiar with your story, but I wanted to say hello to you. You are NOT a failure. Anyone who tries to hold a family together and fulfill their vows to love honor and cherish, for better or for worse... is a STRONG person. You don't feel strong right now, I know. But you ARE. Please take one day at a time, take a deep breath, and talk to us. We wil listen to whatever you need to say. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] k?<P>You are not responsible for your W's decisions. DOn't let her bring you down like this. Don't let her opinions and actions determine your self-worth and future.<P>You can make it through this, no matter what., and we will be here with ya. ok?<P>Please talk to us. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Indy,<P>Please don't give up on your kids!! Please dont give up on YOU!! Whether you realize it or not, your kids need YOU!! YOU are their father, and they will never forget that!! They will never NOT need your love and support!! YOU are the man!! If you walk out and leave now, they will be lost...to a Weak Mother, to a Weak other person that is a poor role model for YOUR children. They need to know that YOU still love them and will be there for them.<P>Damnit, Indy, I know what losing your children can do. I watch my kids grow up in pictures. Their mother took them from me. I call them each and every week, tell them how much I love them. Due to financial constraints and their mother's unwillingness to help financially, I do not get to see them very often. But, your kids need you to stay in their lives, need you to watch them grow up, need your strength and unconditional love, need you not to abandon them, the way your WS has done. She may have them with her, but she has abandoned them due to her selfishness. If she is able to pawn them off on her mother, and be selfish with OM, then your kids will need you even more than they already do!! Don't let your kids see you give up. Don't do anything to sever the ties, bonds, love and caring that these kids feel for you! They will be more lost than you feel at this time!! They need YOU, Your LOVE, Your mentoring!!! You have to be stronger than your WS if your kids are ever to recover from what she has done. Let your childrens love be the thing that sees you through this!! YOU have a purpose, YOU have a reason for living this life. If you walk out now, the kids will surely see it as a sign they are not good enough to be loved, and they will ask questions for the rest of their lives, and never have the answers. Your WS has already alienated them, to a certain degree. Don't add to that!! Let them know and understand that NO MATTER WHAT, YOU ARE THERE FOR THEM, UNLIKE THEIR MOTHER WHO IS ABLE TO WALK OUT ON THINGS IN HER LIFE!!<P>If you need to talk or want some other thoughts from me, in a more private way, I have been there and understand!! I still fight the ghosts of "what if". Don't let it happen that they lose you, too. Get in touch with me if you need to!!<P>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<P>Trueheart

Indy please think about the affect that your decision will have on your kids. I know you are in pain right now. No matter how far we've come we all still have those days where we are so hopeless it feels like the beginning again. You are not at fault for your wifes actions. She has made the choices for herself please do not be so hard on yourself. You are a good, kind and caring man and your kids really need you right now. Are you in counseling for yourself? If not maybe you should consider it not for your M but for you. Please continue to post. Indy, I know you are having a difficult time right now just wanted you to know that I care about you. You're in my prayers.<BR><<<<Hugs>>>><BR>C

Indy, I am not nearly as experienced or as inspirational as most MB'ers but I can tell you that I had felt like you most of the last six months since d-day. I had often convinced myself that my 2-year old D would be better off without me but then somehow, the combination of God and MB kept me away from giving up. Perhaps it was my D's laughter or her smile, her calling out to "mummy" at 3:00 a.m. and knowing that I would be there while WS was not or simply being THERE 100% of the time while WS was and is NOT. Whatever it was, I realized that I MUST be there for my D. Children need security and reliability to grow up confident and feeling loved. I told my H that child rearing is a full-time responsibility. I have committed my life to that with no question. My H has decided to leave to find his happiness and see if he misses "us" enough. Wow...what a role model. <P>I am telling you these things so that you can find your strength. Listen to Trueheart and let your children be your anchor. Show them what real love is all about. Don't jump ship when the going gets tough. True love never falters despite the obstacles. <P>Please, I pray for your children and you. THEY NEED YOU.

I have lost 25lbs. I wasn't over weight before and now with the weight loss I am too thin. Really I need to gain about 10lbs. WH bought me some weight gain but I haven't tried it yet. I do feel as though I am getting my appetite back. He has lost about 35lbs through all of this. I was going to the gym I really have to start working out again.

Indy,<P>You know, if you do not give up rights to your children, then you can contribute to their financial care by getting dependent benefits. <P>I know, I'm scraping the barrel right now to give you a reason to not give up your rights to them. You are so much more then a pay check to your children, you are their life. <P>Trueheart is right about the pain it will cause your children for you too to give up on them. If you leave them they will feel a pain as strong as the one you are feeling or worse. This is because to children their parents are their entire life. Right now STL and I deal daily with the pain his children live with. His ex-wife abandoned him and their 3 children when she left to live with her OM. Now she waltzes into their lives two or three times a year when it is convenient for her. They are so hungry for her love. Intellectually they know that she cannot love them in a way we expect a mother to love her children, but their hearts and souls cry for her. It tares them apart every time they see her.<P>Last weekend we checked S-14 into a residential treatment center. He will be there for 6 months to a year. D-11 very depressed and I fear suicidal. Why? Because their mother neglected them when she was running around and because she has all but abandoned them now. It’s a much longer story then this but I’m trying to impress on you the damage parental abandonment does to a child. <P>Sometimes in our sorrow and pain, the only thing that keeps going are our children. Believe me I know this. In my previous marriage my son was the only thing I got up for on many days. He may never know it but he was like the force that made me go through every day, made me function through the hurt. <P>And today? I’m actually ok with all that I went through in my previous marriage because I have my son and STL. I also have his kids… life is good. The path I went through is what brought me to where I am today. So I am at peace.<P>Indy, I’ve been through some very significant depressions …. <BR>====When my first husband had a brain aneurysm and surgery. He never returned to “normal”. Our marriage ended because I could not live with the angry, violent man he became.<BR>===When my twin daugheters were sill-born.<BR>===At the end of my second marriage.. my xH was physically and emotionally abusive.<BR>===And this year after d-day (March 22) from STL’s affairs. <P>I can tell you from experience that some depressions can be handled with no outside help and others not. It is a good thing to get the help needed.. be it counseling and/or antidepressants. Depression is a real physical illness… it is caused by the brain’s exhausting it’s own ability to produce the “feel good” chemicals like dopamine or the ability to process brain chemicals.<P>It’s important to go right through the middle of it. What does that mean? Find a safe place to just wallow in it for a few days. Give up trying to take control of it. Just sit there and feel all the pain and anger. Let it take you over and cry and scream and what ever else you need to do (without breaking anything, scaring anyone or hurting anyone). Then, when you are exhausted, go to sleep. You may need a few sessions like this but you will get through it.<P>I hate to see what this is doing to you. Wish I could find the right words to reach out to you and make a difference.<P>Please hang in there. Please come here for support. I know that STL and I have not been good recently at being there when you needed us. We have been overwhelmed with summer vacations and taking care of kids who are falling apart. I’ve been sick for weeks, and yada yada yada. Basically once the STL’s kids got home from the summer visit with their mom on July 5th all hell broke loose here and thing are just not back to “normal” yet. Not that I know that “normal” is. STL and I are still here when we can be. But there are others here on MB who are willing to help you too. <P>So please do not give up on yourself and your children.<P>Z

Indy,<BR>WS will talk you out from the her fog if you let her. I was trashed for 5 1/2 years w/o knowing why and depressed twice almost killed myself last year. W made me feel so bad and you know why don't you ?. TO MAKE HER FEEL GOOD ABOUT HER ACTION, I call this double selfishness. Having A & trashing your BS.<BR>I pulled myself together and realize that for 5.5 years of hell, it is not me. I found out W has A for that long !!!!. She always complaint that I do not love her ... etc, etc. Just replace all word that she say about you with hers, it will make sense. She did not love me !.<P>Hang in there bro ... my W still denies she has A after she confess that she has it for 4 months (fact is 5.5 years). They talk in the fog and if you listen to it you might be sucked into it. Go and see yourself in the mirror and repeat saying "I am a good man, I might made mistake in the past knowing or not but I am willing to change". It work for me and also "From now on I will give my absolute best regardless what W say or do. if W do not want it, I will find other who will glad to cherish it".<P>You reminded my situation a year ago ... tears and prayers for you.<P>Hadi

Dear Indy,<P>I had this long o post to you and poof it disappeared. Are you lucky!?!?!?! LOL! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]<P>I wanted to let you know that you are not alone in how you are feeling. Me too. Now the difference is that you are a guy but I think the impact at this stage is pretty similar. Feelings of despair and rejection are running high for you now. Know this and listen.<P>This will pass. You are not in a good position to be making real life decisions in your present frame of mind. Do you have someone close you can visit and speak with? If not, can someone here call or can you setup a visit with Steve? <P>Indy, I felt just like you and during one of my episodes, I have several..... I remember that H2Y sent me on a vacation to a tropical isle, he prepared a luau for me on a beautiful beach. I got to go snorkeling and enjoyed the sun, quiet atmosphere and food. Oh yea, the drinks were nice too..!!! Ok it was a mental picture but it did me good. Through it I saw the value of living. <P>Now mind you, I went through a greater despression later and actually tried to carry out my desparate thought. I made an agreement with H to take care of our son and I actually was there at the beach walking straight into the ocean..... Scary? You bet. I was desparate. <P>Why am I telling you this? Because Indy, I am still here. Now I will share another experience. My grandmother's first H commited suicide while she was in her 20s with 3 little girls. The last was a few weeks old. So was his illegitmate son. My grandmother was not aware of this A went to visit the woman and this son and even wet nursed the baby. This was an acceptable requested favor by the birth mother. As my grandmother was nursing this son, the woman had the gall to tell my grandmother that that baby was my grandmother's step child. The rest is history. Her H commited suicide shortly after. That meant that 3 little girls grew up without their real father. <P>Now that man was the OP/Ws. The point is that no one should throw their life away. For those that think one's children won't be affected by D or Suicide, their heads are in the sand. <P>For me this place has saved me many times. I hate to admit that I have gotten this weak but I have. I am getting stronger but still have a ways to go. <P>So my advice, is to keep working with us. Vent whenever you need. If you want someone here to talk with let us know. Get together with Steve ASAP. <P>Be smart. There are several fathers here who have custody of their children. It is not easy for them but they are doing quite well. Rick37, WAT, Fatherof1Husbandof0, are but a few, there are more. <P>For example: Fatherof1Husbandof0 has custody of their 4 year old daughter. He is very proud of her and they have a good relationship. His D was final earlier this year, he is still doing well. <P>He posts on the d/d site, you may find his thoughts very helpful. He is the one who posted to me about the 5 stages of grieving. I can share that with you if you would like. Just let me know. <P>You are not alone. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.

<p>[ October 24, 2001: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]

Hi Indy,<P>Your post and replies made me cry. You must know that deep down you are not a failure. Yes, right now you feel your life is crap. That is understandable, but you can turn it around! First priority is to treat your depression. You need to be there for your children. Right now, you are probably the sanist person in their life. You may not think so now, but I bet you are! <BR>2 quick things....I live in NY, outside of NYC. The events of 9/11 were so unbelievable and soooo out of our control. Suddenly, family meant everything. Gather your children together and hold them tight. They are what matters.<BR>My H has a D from his 1st marriage who is now 21. His ex W was totally twisted and really screwed up D. My H was there for her throughout her life, even putting our marriage 2nd. If it wasn't for my H this kid would be out on the streets. This past May, she graduated college. On her cap she wrote for everyone to see, "THANKS DAD, I LOVE YOU". Through years of pain and feelings of complete failure my H felt, That was the greatest day of his life. Please Indy, you don't see it now, but your life really matters.

Dear INDY:<P>I am new here but your post hit me deeply. Please don't give up your rights to your children. They have only one father and it is you. They will feel this as a rejection. They need you like no other.<P>I can tell by your being here that you are a caring, thinking and loving person. Children need all of these, who better to give them than a Father and Mother.<P>I am praying for you and your family.<P>God bless you in your hour of trial.

Everyone thanks for the replys. I will try to get back here later tonight. <P>Indy

Everyone,<P> I went to the lawyer today. It was a very short visit. He told me my options that I had right now. I could press this and get the D over with or I could set a hearing or I could just wait for awhile. I told him about giving her the kids. He understood my reasons for that. The kids need to be with their sister. I will not give them the family that they diserve. I will always want the one that I had before this mess. I still feel that it is the right thing to do. They will be happy with them. They can all be one happy family. I was a family man once, but that man was killed by his own wife. The nice man that I was is gone. The best way I can articulate it is be comparing it to a movie character. The move I am talking about is Soldier with Kurt Russell in it. That is the way that I feel right now. I am now just a Marine. I want to transfer to the combat arms area vice the combat support area. I don't know maybe I will request to be transfered to tanks. I would then command a Squad of about 4 tanks. I think it will be better than sitting in an office all day. I know that you might think that I am depressed, but I am not. I am completely empty of emotions right now. All I have is my disipline that the Corps taught me that is keeping me in one peice right now. I had my shot at happiness and I blew it. I was a terrible husband and a terrible father. I don't deserve to be either. All I diserve to be is a Marine. That is it. I hope that you all won't hate me for this.<P>Indy