I read a post the other day that mentioned starting a thread for musician's wives. Now I can't find that post, but I went ahead and started a thread. Resilient--where are you?

Hi Dumplin'. That was a thread I started a few days ago, casualty of the server crash this weekend. <P>Resilient had a few things to say about the subject, too. Jo, where are you? i didn't write that C's number down -- figured I'd just grab it off the computer on Monday. Now I know better! <P>Dumplin', what's on your mind?<P>Snow

Not much right now. Been working with H for the last week trying to get a video done for his booking agent. Both of us are about to pull our hair out, but it should be done soon. I haven't been able to get into the site for a while because of the crash. I had written a long reply to your original post and lost the whole thing. My luck! H is still trying or looks like he is trying. Just thought it would be nice to have some support from people who have musicians as spouses. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <P>How have you been?

Just sort of existing... some major LB's on MY part this week (see what happens when the site crashes!) But he's handling it all... doing the best Plan A a person could do, I think. A lot of my anger (fear?) has come out, a lot of "revenge" talk, a lot of agonizing over whether or not to go on. <P>He's quit the band, you know. I don't know if you saw that on the thread, where he walked away from two gigs in SF and flew home immediately. And after my tirade this week, he is swearing off playing live forever. I don't know how THAT makes me feel. Maybe it's all too little too late. <P>I hope Jo jumps in here soon. I'm on my way to get the kids from school and then off to work for the night. Wouldn't you know the thing would be up and running just in time for me to have to go to work??? Hope it's all still here when I get back in. <P>Dumplin', sounds like you work along with your H, at least to some extent, and this to me seems like a good thing. Keeps you "in the loop". I hope so. Have a good evening! <P>Snow

Hi,<P>I too am a musician's wife. The split artist/family life adds a whole pile of extra complexity to the situation. It will be nice to share experiences with others in the same spot. <P>I'm running short on time now too... but will check back on this thread later tonight.<P>Thanks for starting this!<BR>Laurie

Yes, I work with him to some extent. I get to help him do all the grunt work at home and don't get to go to ANY of his shows. "You're too jealous" is his reasoning. Duh, I wonder why?? I was jealous before and he thinks it will be ten times worse now. Gotta go. He's back and needs the computer.

Sorry about that--he had to leave again so I'm back for a little while at least. I don't mind helping with the band, but I wish I could at least see some of the shows. H is not even thinking about quitting right now. He has mentioned it, but it's only after "if this and this don't work". The biggest thing I have is he's always stressed out. If I ever bring anything up, I'm the b**ch because I don't care that he's stressed. Well, that leaves no time for me to discuss how I'm feeling or what I need. Right now, I would like to sit down with him and talk about what I need since I've heard what he needs, but when can I bring it up? Now that the video is finally done, he's stressed about booking shows since he's wasted a week working on the video. He's also in a very good mood since the video is done and I'll "just bring him down". I can sympathize with OP since I feel like one most of the time with the music being the wife. I have sacrificed many times for the band and his music. I know he sees it, but I don't feel like I get enough credit.<P>My biggest need right now seems stupid, but I need to feel like his wife and not his buddy. We are getting along fine, but it's more like roommates who sleep together. Don't get me wrong - I want to be friends with him. I just want it to be more also. We're married and we're not 90 years old. We can still have romance. I miss the days when we had romance more than anything. My favorite Christmas was when he gave me a dozen roses. Of course, they died three days later and I'm not really a flower person, but I was so proud of getting them. I almost cried. I've been given flowers before, but they never meant as much as those from him. Okay, I know, I'm a sappy person. Yes, my favorite songs are love songs and I read romance novels over and over. I know he has it in him; I just wish he would start showing it again.<P>I'll stop rambling now. I've missed being able to post--can you tell?

Well, Hi you three ... Dumplin, Snow and Running!<P>Dumplin, thank you ever so much for starting a thread for us. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <P>I haven't been on the board in the last few days, I knew there were probs here and I've been working my tail off. But I'm back now.<P>I'll be back on later tonight, hope to see you three here.<P>Love,<BR>Jo

Hi ladies! Sometimes it's really inconvenient having bartenders hours... hard to catch up on these threads when I've just gotten home and most everyone else is asleep. <P>Dumplin, WHY "can't" you go to shows? Are you not allowed? How would it make you jealous? I don't get it... I think it would make you more comfortable, if anything. I'm going to research your posts and get more info since I'm not really up on your situation. <P>Ditto for you, Jo. I think I recall that you're divorced from your musician husband. Unfortunately, there's a lot of that out there in performer land. Too many people I know with too many of the same stories. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <P>I'd go to my H's shows sometimes and he'd introduce me to all sorts of women, some of whom I sensed looked at me with some kind of pity... didn't know at the time what that meant. AT THE TIME I was sure he had been faithful. AT THE TIME, he had spent years trying to convince me that he could never be anything but. <P>These past few days, after my meltdown, he's opened up a lot about his A's. Questions that he didn't have time for before he's suddenly more than willing to answer. Though his answers sometimes lead to new questions, I think he may finally tell me what I've needed to know. See, I HAD given up. For the second time. Told him I couldn't do this anymore. Tired of the nightmares, the unanswered questions, the panic attacks, the wondering... Mostly tired of feeling used and like a doormat. <P>This wasn't a "power play" or "manipulation". I really felt like I was just over it, finished. I'd tried for ten years and got nothing back. I will be his friend and yes, let's raise these children together, no matter who else we may be married to, but lets just get on with it already. It was such a relief to get it all out. <P>He came back with swearing off playing out forever, said it didn't matter that only his family did. Said he'd do anything (I've heard that SOOOO many times in the past), whatever it takes... big sigh here. What I was so sure of just days ago, seems so foggy now. <P>Yes Dumplin, thanks for starting this post. I know musicians are faced with certain temptations that say, a computer programmer wouldn't have to deal with. Most of the women our H's run into have had a few and are loosened up by the time they get to out husbands. Icch! Every single one of my H's "A's" knew that he was married and really didn't care that she was just a one-night-stand. <P>Running, jump in at any time. Would love to hear your take on things. <P>Snow<p>[ October 12, 2001: Message edited by: Snowwhite ]

I'm not allowed to go to his shows by him. I used to get jealous over the women falling all over him and he thinks it would be ten times worse now. Personally, I think I have to come to the realization that the women are going to do that and it's up to him how he handles it. I can go to one of his shows, but he hardly ever plays there and it's in the town where my family lives so they are all there when he plays. It feels like to me that something is being hidden, but that may be my suspicious nature also. Anyone's advice is appreciated on this. I feel an overwhelming need to be at some of his shows. Not all of them, but it gets irritating to do the grunt work and live with it every day of my life and never get to see any of the shows. How would the POJA approach this since he doesn't want me at any of them and I want to be there. I think even if I didn't go just knowing that I could if I wanted would make a world of difference.<P>He also uses the excuse that he doesn't come to my job so why should I go to his. Our jobs are worlds apart, but that doesn't seem to matter to him. I just feel like I'm being shut out.<P>Snow, both the OW in my H's life also knew he was married. The long term one would call my house and ask to talk to him like we were good friends or something. Made me want to wring her neck and his.<P>I know how you feel about giving up. I've been there plenty of times. H always seems to think I'm pulling a power-play and makes me feel guilty even though I'm not. I get the "Why are you doing this to me right now?"

Hi ladies. My H isn't a musician but I lived with one for 5 years so I can relate. Finding a musician who doesn't cheat is like finding that old "ruby in a mountain of rocks" lol. But I swore off musicians forever, married someone in a very conservative profession and he still cheated, so you can't win. When I was still with Mr. Rock N Roll, and complaining about the groupies, an older & wiser friend told me "No matter what, if you have a half decent guy there will always be a woman out there who wants to take him away from you" and she was right. Lots of women will cut your throat over a man they want, and men are well, men. The big difference is that most men don't have new and different women fawning over them every day at their job, bringing them gifts, begging for their autograph. That's a big ego boost. Opportunity doesn't knock every single day for most "regular guys".<P>My Mr. Rock and Roll actually didn't cheat to the very best of my knowledge ( his friends constantly ridiculed him for not cheating). But I DON'T consider him to have been faithful. He would have cheated in a second if I hadn't played constant watchdog from the beginning of the relationship. I went to as many shows as possible, or showed up at 1 am to "surprise him." In one of his bands I made very close friends with one of the other guys and he became my "spy" and let me know what was going on. If he had thought for one second that I wouldn't bust him he would have cheated ASAP. But he used to throw it in my face all the time if we argued "You should be grateful I don't cheat when all these girls want me." Barf. Like that is a badge of honor. Not cheating should be a GIVEN, not an extra added bonus. I was also put in the position several times of being forced to lie to 2 of the the other guy's wives (and even afew of their OWs). I finally told them both that I would no longer lie or cover up for their affairs if confronted and they were not happy. One of them told me to my face that "he understood" and then told my boyfriend that he better "keep me in line" and "teach me to shut my mouth" when it came to his extracurricular activites.<P>My hat is off to you ladies. I've walked in your shoes and it's not an easy life. I finally got tired of being a warden and I walked away. It was completely emotionally draining and my guy wasn't about to change (but some do). As soon as I would have let my guard down the cheating flood gates would have opened. I can say that I know 2 musicians (former serial cheaters) who learned their lesson. Both of them are older & wiser and are now completely faithful and like it that way. Hopefully your H's will see the light that they saw and be grateful to have a wife who loves him for himself, not for his stage presence.

<B>Big question for all of you--</B><P>H has broke it off with OW before and within a month was talking to her again and hiding it from me. His relationship lasted almost a year with me knowing the whole time except those last couple of months. He is saying again that he is not talking to her and hasn't talked to her in over a month. He won't write a no contact letter "since it would just start everything up again" (his words). Now my questions:<P>1. How do I believe him this time? I believed him last time and was screwed over.<P>2. With him being a musician that is playing music on the weekends and soon during the weeks, will we ever recover from this? Will I ever live through a weekend without wondering who he is with?<P>I'm having a hard time believing he has had no contact and the band is talking about going to play at a club that is in the state where she lives. (Also the club where they would have their little get-togethers--his mother even saw them together when she went down there and I was sitting at home with the kids.) H knows I don't want him there and I don't know how to handle this without blowing up. I would ask to go with him, but he wouldn't agree with that either.

OMG!!!<P>I have so much to add to this thread. After reading what you all have said I have so much to say too! But I'm at work right now. I'll be on after work and post my take on "a Musician's Wife's life". After 20 years with one, I wanna spill my guts.<P>Love you guys.<BR>Jo<p>[ October 12, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]

I'll be waiting Jo to hear your words of wisdom or your guts spilling whatever you what to call it. LOL [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Fairydust, thank you for jumping in here. You hit the nail on the head in so many ways. Playing watchdog is so emotionally draining. That's been a big part of my "giving up". I know that my best Plan A includes me working on myself, leaving him to come to his own conclusions. That was very difficult to do when every weekend and some weeknights he was out there until all hours of the night... WS's spend lots of time devising explanations about where they've been. As a BS you've heard so many of them that it makes your head spin just thinking about it. How do you know the difference between a real ecplanation and a lie told to cover up another deception? I think that this is also what Dumplin' is having a hard time with. <P>D., I don't know if I could tolerate that line he's drawn in the sand. Sounds like this is something the two of you really need to work through. You put so much effort towards his dream, towards somthing that is his alone. How is it that he feels he can tell you where you can or cannot go? Huge LB on his part. <P>Being at showsdid NOT ever make me feel more "threatened". It IS all about how he handles himself, what he does with that attention. This is something my WH has been saying for a few months now -- that everyone, no matter what they do for a living, is going to get propositioned or flirted with at one time or another. It's up to you to say "no thanks". Musicians and other performers just happen to get so much more of it that I think it distorts their vision of reality. <P>I bartend for a living, at a pretty high-end establishment. Drinks ain't cheap, but let me tell you, A LOT OF THE PEOPLE IN THERE ARE!! I have the honor of watching people with rings on their fingers leave the bar with people they aren't married to, every night. This too can skew your perception of reality. I happen to be in a place surrounded by this sort of thing every night, and it sometimes makes you believe that EVERYONE in the world is doing it except you. It's also why I have to come here and read nearly every night after work, so I can see that there are people out there that don't do it and wouldn't. <P>Dumplin', I wish I could answer question #1 for you. I'm in the same boat, wondering the same thing. I know that at some point you DO just have to jump in and decide to trust again, that he/she's done everything to prove to you that they are trustworthy. I don't know what that point is. <P>#2, I think it's possible. I too know former serial-cheater musician husbands who have changed. It was their decision. And apparently they've gone out of their way to let their wives know this. That the cheating was their decision, and that they've let their spouse know this is a big part of the recovery as well. I would pose the question, do you think you're capable of living with a musician (or any WS) knowing what you know about them? For me, my self respect is at stake here. It's what I'm trying to come to terms with. <P>You may get to the point where you can just let him go for the weekend, but it sounds like he's holding on to something... no POJA here, is there? Often I think they're looking for us to trust them enough to let them go -- angry that they've changed their ways and we don't believe them just because they say we do. They don't realize how much work is yet to be done. No, I can honestly say that I would NOT want him to go out of state alone. He needs to understand why. <P>Sorry about the rambling post... just trying, like everyone else.<P>Snow<P>Snow

ooh, Snow ... sorry Hon, here's that number for Lana Stahelli, Ph.D<P>Seattle:<BR>1.206.525.4204<P>Hey Dumplin,<P>My H use to pull the same thing. For so many years he would want me to be with him at his gigs. In the earlier years most the time I could go, but only on the week-ends because I work a conventional job. But then he started NOT wanting me to be there ... BIG red flag for me. And I was right, he was having an A and we seperate. While he's out he makes a GREAT BIG mess of things, I mean Baaaaad!!! <P>These groupies are very very aggresive, not your typical office preditor girlie, you know what I mean?<P>Dumplin, you don't want to LB your H, and if you going to his gig is an LB then you better not push it. BUT .. I think you should tell him that you feel somewhat insecure regarding he being there without you all the time ... but only by using "<B>I</B>" statements. <P>Example:<P>Dumplin: "Honey, I would love to go see you play tonight.<P>H: "I would prefer you stay home and not come"<P>Dumplin: "Okay, I understand, but I do feel hurt and somewhat insecure knowing you don't want me there. I'm hoping one day soon you'll want me to go with you again"<P>How's that, Dumplin?<P>Lv,<BR>Jo

Dumplin,<P>I also think, like Snow said, you need to decide for yourself if you're going to give your H blind trust from here on in. If you decide you can and will do that, then I say you tell him. <P>Tell him you are going to give him your trust. That without question you will believe in him and what he tells you because you know he loves you and your family, and you trust the decisions he makes for all of you. <P>I did this (the trust thing) ... eventually after my H's first A I stopped snooping, I stopped worrying, I stopped all the fear based activities I started from the first discovery. I decided I wasn't going to have a marriage where I felt I was the resident cop, or the "keeper" of the marriage. It's so draining, and I didn't feel like I was enjoying life or our marriage.<P>But, unfortunetly, because we didn't know about the Harleys principals back then, my H did a repeat performance. Very sad.<P>But ... you do know the principals, Dumplin. So I think you have a better chance than we did. What you need to do now is decide if you can stay in the marriage by giving him your unearned trust, while continuing to Plan A him and keep the LBs under check. A very hard thing to do ... but I think you have it in you. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <P>Best,<BR>Jo

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Resilient:<BR><STRONG><P>These groupies are very very aggresive, not your typical office preditor girlie, you know what I mean?<BR>Lv,<BR>Jo</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ain't that the truth lol. One night when I was with Mr. Rock N Roll I answered the door to find 2 groupies who wanted to give him a present they had made for him! They found out where we lived (which was a big apt. complex at the time) and went into every building, looking at ever mailbox until they found his name. I think they were a little embarassed that I answered the door, but not that phased. Girls used to literally shove me aside on occasion and proposition him 2 feet from my face, shove their phone numbers in his hand, even ask for a kiss or a hug. One night a girl came up to a married band member, pressed him against the wall with her body and said "I know you're married and I don't care. I want to **** you right now." In front of several other people besides me. It's not like anyone is going to get fired from their job for those kind of displays. It's a whole different world.

[img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img]<BR>I'm so pissed right now. This is the first weekend in a while that he is staying there and not coming home every night. He's in the state, but he's at a hotel that she's stayed with him before. That's why I'm so down right now.<P>I'm pissed because I looked and he had added her back to his mailing list for the band after I took her off. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and saying that he must have done it when our computer crashed and I had to redo the entire harddrive. And maybe he forgot that she's in there, but I took her butt back out off it. I'm seriously thinking about e-mailing her and asking her when the last time she talked with him was. Not to start trouble, but to put an end to this crap. If I find out he's lying again, I'm giving up!<P>He won't be home until Sunday afternoon so I've got plenty of time to stew. I'm so afraid to say something when he calls and make him mad. His excuse with both A's was that he was pissed at me when he left. I don't want to give him another excuse. I would like to wring his neck though. Maybe it's good that he's gone until Sunday. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img]

Okay I'm on a roll tonight so I'm going to type and you guys can answer when you come back online. About to bust though!<P>How do you handle no contact when he's in a band and she can show up at any show she wants to?<P>I'm also tired of feeling like the residental cop around here. I'm tired of feeling like I can't completely trust him. Part of me really wants to quit and get it over with and another part of me is saying you don't know for sure so why not stick it out and see. I'm afraid though that I will end up hating him if I find out he's lying again. I feel like I'm losing my mind from utter confusion. I don't know what to believe.<P>I have needs also that are being met. I need affection. I need him to say "I love you" more often. We live like roommates who sleep together. I feel like the fact that I'm his wife is being hidden from the rest of the world. I know when people are around because when we get off the phone and I say I love you he won't repeat it. It doesn't matter if he's at home and his brother is here and I call from work. That REALLY bothers me. I have told him and he says he doesn't like public displays of affection. <P>Funny point though, he gave my cell phone number to a manager of a club. This manager called my cell and got my voice mail which says "PS if this is **(h's name) I love you baby". According to him, he got ragged pretty bad at the show that weekend, but he didn't seem too upset by it. He did mention me changing it and I told him if he didn't want people to hear it then don't give them my cell phone number. I'm not changing it. I don't see why I should. There isn't anything wrong with it in my mind. H also didn't seem too upset over it so I didn't think it was that big of a thing. He actually laughed over it and told me they thought it was sweet, but they ragged him anyway.<P>I'm tired of feeling like I'm second to the band. H has told me the only things that matter to him in life are his family (thank goodness he said that first) and his music. If one of them is off-kilter then everything is affected. Right now, both are off-kilter and he doesn't know what to do.<P>I'll stop rambling now before I overload the computer.<P>Anyone online tonight?