<B>snl...There is always a "better" place to go if one is not happy where they are in life </B><P>jeffers... Yes, we all realize that is true if we think about it. We just don't know what that better place (or person) looks like without an example in front of us. You guessed, correctly, that I'm not a risk taker. What is the cost involved in finding that "better" place? Unknown! Hard to make a change with no info.<P>I think it takes us a long time to realize how much better (or maybe just different) things could be. We compare with what we have and our unhappiness grows. This is probably the youthful ignorance thing, what do we know about anything in our 20's.<P><B>snl ...simply by being here, and contemplating MB principles, you have changed, and are in a "better" place. </B><P>jeffers... How right you are. The circumstances of our marriage needed adjusting, not new partners. But, I realize that had I tasted the experience of a someone else I might not believe that adjustment would accomplish the same thing. Known quantity vs. a risk.<P>Perhaps that's why vows are important. We tend to be quite limited in our thinking and rarely see "the big picture". I don't think we truly understand how destructive divorce really is. Vows represent the objective wisdom that we don't have. [I guess I'm saying that we don't always act in our own best interest].<P><B>snl...I just kinda use the word fit as a useful label, ... <A HREF="http://www.kiersey.com" TARGET=_blank>www.kiersey.com</A> is fascinating stuff, go take a gander.</B><P>jeffers... I've been to that site and others that discuss the Kiersey stuff. I thought you might have Kiersey in mind when you talk about "fit". I've taken the temperament sorter, and got my own personal report. My W said, "They got your type wrong, you're not rational (NT) if you pay fifteen dollars for an online test" LOL. <P>For $15 they told me which temp types I "fit" the best. The descriptions of how the various temp types might interact seemed sort of reasonable, but choosing the "best" seemed to have some arbitrariness to it. It's not clear that reading the descriptions would help me understand in any real emotional way what a particular relationship would "feel" like. The temps were useful in understanding some of the ways my W and I interact.<P>Matching via temperament seems about as mechanical as it gets. I would be very wary of attempting to choose a mate with this kind of process. I don't know if this is the kind of system that you are advocating.<P>It looks like the idea of temperament has strong psychological footing. I just haven't seen anything "real" yet about pairings. That's why I was wondering if you could point me toward someone who has studied these things. <P><B>snl... it is the nature of the marriage that counts, not the existence of a legal secular document. </B><P>jeffers... Longterm marriage is obviously beneficial to society. It's not obvious that it's detrimental to individuals. Perhaps it adversely affects our emotional well being in the short term, but that's all we can honestly say. Maybe vows represent "guidance from the ages".<P>I've been toying with the idea that humans and their social environment have evolved together. Common themes in societies are probably echoed by corresponding traits in humans themselves: i.e. marriage vows in society are probably just a reflection of our strong individual need to be in longterm marriages.<P>----<BR>How am I? <P>Every element of my life has been unraveling. I'm trying to weave it back together, hopefully better than it was. I'm realizing that one thing I'm really missing is a strong connection to <I>something</I>. Maybe that's what we boomers (and the generations that follow) are experiencing. I feel kind of adrift. I have a cousin who still lives where she grew up, I envy her connection to her lifelong community.<P>I think that my marriage and career have always been anchors. Finding out that neither were as solid as I thought was very disorienting. <BR>----<BR>As always, I've been working on this post so long that I probably lost my focus somewhere along the way. good luck with it.<P>Jeffers

I invested all that effort on the wrong thread. Darn. I hate it when that happens.<BR> [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <BR>Jeffers

By the way Snl, I am an Idealist on the personality profile. To be exact I am known as the counselor. I tend to read people very well and strive to achieve by best self.<P>My husband is the artist. So you can imagine our difficulties. But I am attracted to his charisma and his ability to negotiate well with many people. He is a promoter. I am very intuitive and he is very sensory oriented. We balance each other well, except when stressed.<P>I do know this, because I trust my intuitive functions well. My husband and I were drawn toward each other from day one. Yes, life and it's problems got in the way, but now we are refocused on each other and our relationship has a much stronger foundation. We saw each other at our worst and still chose to make our relationship work.<P>Yes given the population of the world I can imagine there is a possible best mate. I happen to love my choice and plan to work within my decision to create the best possible marriage.<P>It's not a complex as you make it appear.<BR>Perhaps complex makes you feel comfortable though..kind of like a way of escape?<P>Best wishes,<P>Shaz

no you didn't jeffers, I plan on getting back to you [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Maybe my situation is different from everyones else's. Can that be true? We have been M 28 yrs,29 in Feb and 27 at the time of the A.<BR>And for most of the time,in all those years we were happy and in love.Both of us,even my WS-H agrees. Sometimes up,sometimes down..isn't that just LIFE?<BR>I was M at 18 and I certainly have changed and grown over the years,so has my H. But the basic person he is, and I am, was what we fell in love with all those years ago.<BR>One of the things my H said, to justify his A,before I knew there was one, was that he doubted he ever really loved me. Was that the honest truth?<BR>Of course not..and today, I have not changed as much as he has in the last year. I am still the person he told himself he MAY have never loved and didn't like. But the reality was he DID love me and he DID like me...he is just soooo happy NOW with the same person he basically despised and treated like expendable garbage during his A.Why? Because of me or because of him?<BR>He says he didn't appreciate who I am and that he wasn't grateful for all the good things we are. I think some people lack the abiltity to wait for the cycle of up and down to go back up again.<P>Sure, it doesn't necessarily follow that just because we were in love once, we definately will be again.But in love is so subjective to where you are in your own head.And if you are subject to blaming other people for your own faults and not taking responisbility for your actions, well, who better to blame than the person you live with.<BR>Truth be told, we were not in love, pre A, for a while...we were co-existing...due in part to his withdrawal and stuff at work, MLC(he's 53),the kids starting college away and all kinds of things. But my leaving him to work it out in his own head...all he wanted was for me to leave him alone ("Baby, We will be OK, just have some stuff to work on,Wait for me" this is what he said)...hurt us beacuse I had no idea it went as deep as it apparently did.Neither did he and he wound up betraying not only me but the basic person he is,the person I love. Not always in love with but I love the man he is and has always been, the one he wants to be,who I always saw,even when he was being a jerk.<P>He could not then afford me the same courtesy. I think there is "in Love" and real long lasting love,based in a basic liking for the person,friendship,if you will, regardless of hormones. My H confused hormones with real love and it has caused him to make a mistake that HAS changed a part of the basic fabric of who he is. And while I will not make him "pay" for the rest of his life, he is doing that to himself. He still,14 months later, cannot REALLY understand how he could have done this, not just to me but to himself.