I have been divorced for a few months now and I have been dating a few people to make new friends and have some fun. I am a young guy, 29, above average looking, very respectful of women, etc. but I can't help but notice that girls/women seem to go after the guys that are bad for them. One of my friends went back to a boyfriend that verbally abused her and physically hit her several times in the past, but she decided not to date me anymore and go back to this loser! <P>Am I the only good guy out there that is noticing this? It seems like the guys that treat the ladies like crap have NO problem finding a date or somehow keeping the girls coming back to them! For what??? I have no idea. <P>I would like to hear responses from girls and guys about this issue! This just confuses the heck out of me. Are there any classy, respectful ladies out there that want to be treated with respect???<P>Bryan

yep!! me!!! I want to be treated with respect. I wouldn't tolerate physical abuse for one second. I'm not a "liberated" woman either - I would love for my husband to open doors for me, pull my chair out, and all that chivalrous stuff. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<P>We are out there, I promise. I can't explain why some women would rather settle for disrespectful treatment. I know they do. Perhaps they need discipline and direction they didn't receive as a child. Perhaps their self-esteem is so low they think they deserve mis-treatment. Maybe you are interested in the type of women that are interested in bad men? <P>Anyway... just wanted to say... there's plenty of us out here. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] What;s your phone number?? [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] LOL... just kidding.. haha.. . thought I would lighten the mood. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi PB.<P>Good to see you back. I'm not one of those girls. I married a very nice guy. Never seen any abuse or even a nasty temper. He only yells if I provoke him. However, he did have the affair. HMMMM? One thing I did notice was just prior to the affair his ego grew so big...well you know the rest.<P>Anyway, I think these women may be attracted to guys who give off a lot of male attitude. Probably very aggressive. Maybe these women are more insecure and need a man that has all the outward mannerisms of being macho.<P>Whatever the reason Bryan, you don't need these women! They are walking right back to their problems. That is not a sign of security. One day they most likely would hurt you too.<P>Be patient. There are nice, intelligent attractive women out there who are looking for a keeper.<P>Take care,<BR>Shaz

Faith.....<P>Thanks for your message. I appreciate your kind words! I know to be patient and that there are lots of decent women out there too! <P>Thanks again!<P>Bryan

Hi Shaz..<P>Thank You! I agree with the insecurity thing! But I am very willing to be patient to wait for the right person! The last thing I need is a totally insecure person with lots of baggage right now! <P>I am trying to look at every new relationship as a clean slate and I never bring an past baggage into it! <P>Take Care<P>Bryan<BR> [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Bryan,<BR> I can relate to what you are going through. My wife's A was with the bad boy. We have been married for 17 years and 3 great kids. The A went on for over a year before I found out. She said she knew he wasn't any good for her and didn't want a permanent relationship with him, but she couldn't stop. It became an addiction. <P> I have always put her on a pedestal and treated her with respect. I too, don't understand what it is about the bad boys that make them so irresistable to normal women.The only thing that I can come with is that they need a break from everyday life and they move into this fantasy world, where they are the belle of the ball, and all attention is focused on them.<P> I'll be curious to see if any ladies who have this issue will respond to your post. I'd love to see their input.<P>Good Luck, Bryan [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Off the top of my head...<P>Love will change them...specifically MY LOVE...<P>I can help them, support them...(co-dependency)<P>PLUS...what an ego-booster that HE chose ME! (and, of course, because I am so nice, I will be the LAST...I don't see that I am one of many...)<P>Cali

Positive<BR>I just heard this discussed on the radio. It's called women who need "project Guys". They think they can "change them". This will prove that "they" -the girl- are "special". Well, we all know that we can't change another person, only our reaction to that person.<BR> When my son was in college he fell for these kind of women many times. The common thread was their background. Many were from divorced parents or and had been abused.<P>My son looks like Tom Cruise and had many girls after him, but he did find that HE was going for the wrong girls. We discussed this one day and found the common link. <P>He finally found his wife, a girl with two parents and a "like" background. I think the Lord daily for her.<P>They are out there, look at yourself and see what there is about you that you can't see "nice" girls as attractive. Perhaps a "project girl" has been more to your liking.<P>BTW, I'm here because my Daughter is a single OW and I want to gain understanding. I guess she needs "project MM", she is from to two parent family and has never been abused, well, maybe, spoiling does constitute abuse. Actually spoiling is a form of abuse and we are guilty and are learning and correcting it.

PB,<P>I'm no expert in this line but I can tell you about a Bad Boy friend that I have. <P>Him and I have been childhood friends. I, like you, have always been a very respectful person towards women. He on the other hand was a true momma's boy in their house but a Bad Boy out side. He was the one always getting into fights, doing crazy stuff and has always been a "ladies man" <P>I had ask him at one time: John, why is it that all the girls fall all over you? I'm better looking that you, have more things to offer than you, and a hell of a lot nicer!<P>His answer to me was: My friend, you lack two things that I have and that is what makes all the difference in the world! Bullsh*t and a don't give a sh*t attitude! <P>He explained that if you treat them to nice they think you are to soft. That you aren't a "manly man" Treat them like crap and they will always come back to you! <P>I have seen this work for him for 20 yrs! But deep down inside, he is a scared little boy who is afraid of getting to close to someone because of what happened in his childhood. His mother worked at a bank and got caught stealing money and was sent to federal prison for 20 yrs. In other words he needs a woman in the worst way but is scared to death that she will leave him so he doesn't give her the chance.<P>I have a friendship with one of his X girlfriends which was also Miss Louisiana years ago and ask her what the attraction was. This is what she told me: He carries his self well. He is very sure of his self. And he never lets anyone get to close to him. He is a great challenge for any woman. <BR>I think that is the word that descibes him the best. HE IS A HUGE CALLENGE! He is the one that will never be roped in and carried to pasture. He lives his life like there is no tomorrow and he has better things to do than fool with a woman. <P>This is not just the women in our home town. Anywhere he goes he has them falling all over him. He doesn't even start out treating them good. He is the way he is all of the time. <P>When I got married, my W wouldn't let me hang around him for obvious reasons. <BR>Since I found out about my W's last A I have been going over and seeing him. <BR>The other day I went by with my 1 yr old and knocked on the door,(He loves kids) he invited me in and we started talking. Not long after a woman come out of his bedroom and ask him to come in the other room and talk to her but he told her "can't you see that I am talking to my best friend and he is more important that you are right now.<BR>She got ready and left but told him that she would call him and come by later. <BR>I told him that it was rude to talk to her like that, he told me that he doesn't give a crap about her! <BR>He has one going out the back door, one in bed and one coming up the driveway. <P>He has never been alone but I got to think that he has to be lonely. <P>Anyway, maybe that will give you a little food for thought!<P><BR>Regards<P>Roughneck

My ex-H was definatly the bad boy type. Very abusive alcoholic. I was young thought my parents were too controlling, you know the story. So I left the comfort of home at 19 to a monster.<BR> I think most of them are extremely good con artists. They are very good "talkers". My ex could sell ice to an eskimo.<BR> I also believe the women that are with them have very low self esteem. At the time I felt he was what I deserved.<BR> Be patient there are good women out there. One will turn up when you least expect it.

I read the bad boys are more exciting, more attractive than the people who are too nice and who try to please their wife all the time. I had a friend who did everything for his wife. She didn't have to lift a finger. She eventually got bored of this nice treatment and married some other guy who didn't do this kind of thing. This guy asked his friends why his wife divorced and had an affair. They told him it was because he was too nice to his wife, he spoiled her and she took advantage of him because of this. So in this case some of the advice on this site to be super nice and to meet all emotional needs didn't work. Sometimes people have affairs and like bad boys just for the pure adventure, excitement, dealing with the unknown, playing with fears etc. But the bad guys are not for everyone. I know one lady was married to a bad boy. Got divorced. Then married a Mr. nice guy. He was too nice. So she had an affair with another bad boy. The too nice husband didn't divorce her but should have.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Roughneck:<BR><STRONG>His answer to me was: My friend, you lack two things that I have and that is what makes all the difference in the world! Bullsh*t and a don't give a sh*t attitude! <P></STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think some women are just attracted to the challenge presented in such men. Men who are attentive and chivalrous don't seem that much of a challenge to our more self-destructive sisters. My son has always had that "don't give a **** attitude" when it came to girls and they have always flocked to him to my amazement.

My brother is "The Perfect Guy" and I think are some people that are too nice. He drives women crazy--it was always up to them to make plans (whatever they wanted to do). He smothered me with attention. I know most people think they would love someone to showered them with attention but you can sometimes give too much. I'm sitting on the outside and can see exactly what he is doing. When you date a girl for two months and then buy her a very expensive necklace, you worry them. Maybe it's the world we live in, guys that are too nice remind you of the maniacs that stalk women when rejected. I have watch him buy women things and let them run all over him. It bothers me, but I can sort of understand. It has to be frustrating at times to have someone so loving you can't move around without them following you. Also, if they just agree with whatever a women wants or says, she eventually will run out of plans to make.<P>Well, that's my two cents worth on nice guys. Hopefully, you aren't as bad as my brother. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Dumplin...<P>I problem is not being too nice, but I do have a problem, like most other guys out there, trying to figure out what the hell most women want. If I treat you nice, you think something is wrong, if I treat you like crap and ignore you, you think something is wrong, if I open doors for you and be respectful to you, you think something is wrong, and if I don't call you for a few days, you think something is wrong. <P>The truth is, its all about how you have been raised in the past. I think girls are attracted to guys exactly like their dad and my belief is that most dads are have been aholes to their daughters hence their search for Mr. Challenge sitting there on the sofa watching WWF all night while you are trying to "CHANGE" him into the "guy you want him to be". Everything I have just mentioned is 100% true and not directed mainly at you, but towards all women who don't know what the heck they want in a relationship!<P>Bryan

momrat..<P>Thanks for your comments. I agree with you, but sometimes guys feel skrewed either way. If you treat a women with respect, they think something is wrong or they don't deserve to be treated with respect and if you treat them like crap, they want to change you into whatever it is they want you to be. Either way, it sucks! <P>At least most guys will be straight with you about what they want. <P>Bryan

gottruth..<P>I would give anything to date a nice girl. The problem is, their are lots of people up there that have NO IDEA of what a positive, normal, loving relationship is all about. I hear alot of people on this thread talking about "THE CHALLENGE" issue and I think that is true in a very minor aspect of everything. <P>The truth is, most girls/women look for a guy exactly like their dad and I think because alot of people today come from broken homes or one-parent households, that their views of relationships are very different than mine, coming from a 2 parent, loving and respecting family!<P>The "Challenge" thing is nothing more than a woman becoming "bored" in a relationship because she has no idea of what it is that she wants out of a relationship!<P>I have one female friend that continues to date and live with a guy that is an alcoholic and beats her. Is her boyfriend a challenge to her, YES, Is her boyfriend a bad boy, YES, Does she have low self-esteem, YES, will she ever leave him, NO, Does she want to, YES! <P>In her childhood, her dad verbally and physically abused her! I am sorry to say, but this situation just proves my point about girls choosing guys exactly like their fathers!<P>Bryan

Call me dull, but sign me up for a good guy any day of the week! I have had more than enough of bad boys for a few lifetimes.<P>Bryan, let me answer your question with a question. Why do men chase after women who are not particularly interested in them and ignore women who genuinely are?<p>[ October 12, 2001: Message edited by: OneDay ]

Burned in Tx....<P>I am very sorry to hear about your situation! I don't believe in a second that most women like your wife seek the bad guys and go after them just because they present a "challenge" to them. I think that statement is just a huge smoke screen to a huge underlying problem that they have with their own self worth! <P>For example, I have very high self esteem myself, and I tend to be attracted to women with high self esteem! If I were to find a woman with high self esteem, she would not think that there was something wrong with me if I treated her with respect 24/7. In other words, if I am trying to date a girl with low self-esteem, she will think that she is "not worthy" of being treated with respect and start to think that I am up to something, but I am really just a genuine, honest and decent guy looking for a NICE girl with self esteem! Is that too much to ask in society today?? Sometimes I think it is!<P>I wish you the best!<P>Bryan<P> [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Oneday..<P>Thank you for your message! I appreciate your comments! <P>To answer your question, I guess that I really don't know why. If I met a women that was genuinely interested in knowing me, I would LOVE it! I guess that my well has run dry in the past year or so and I only seem to be in contact with the bad girls!<P>I am patiently waiting for Miss High Self-Esteem to come into my life, because I have many positive qualities to offer someone who will respect and love me for the person that I am!<P>Thanks Again!<P>Bryan<P> [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

I think of myself as a pretty self-confident women. I have had to be independent to raise my family of four through this tumultuous marriage. <P>My father was the kindest, most loving, gentle man.<P>I met my H in college. He was charming, sexy, and seemed to love me. He also had a horrible temper and an alcohol problem. He viewed women as sex objects and treated them as such--not at first--but after they fell in love with him. My parents saw through him, and it reached the point when they wouldn't allow him in the house because they disliked the true him. <P>I, however, was too much in love. I couldn't figure out his temper or alcoholism. I couldn't figure out why he treated me so poorly periodically. I married him even after many objections from my family and friends.<P>I thought we loved each other enough to make it work. Unfortunately, I was the only one committed to the relationship. I am finding out now that he had relationships before we were married and probably all during our marriage. I tried to stick it out for "my family". I thought I could make everything right....but it took me 25 years to figure out I couldn't. <P>I am terribly sad that I wasted my life on him. I think I had some perfectionist qualities that made me want it to succeed even though he has treated me poorly from the beginning. <P>He is still handsome. Women still flock to him. He comes off as charming, sensitive and loving at the beginning of a relationship. Then reality starts. I feel for his OW. She doesn't know what she is realy getting. I know, because I was there in 1976.<P>I didn't want a bad person to love. I just wanted to be loved by my husband. His behavior was always unpredictable--but he could also make you feel so loved. When he did something outrageous...I didn't know how to react. <P>I used to be a self-confident women. I am not now. I hope I can find my old self and throw away the vision of me that he gave me. <P>He needed me during his military career. I was a good wife. Now he is cold, uncaring, detached--one year after his retirement.<P>I would give anything to find a decent, kind man. Do they exist? I am afraid that Jim has colored my expectations of men. I am really starting to see how poorly he treated me over the years. NEVER AGAIN!!!!<p>[ October 12, 2001: Message edited by: miserynmissouri ]