Well today is three months past d-day for us. Things between us have only gotten worse. We've lived together for a total of about 4 weeks during that time, but my wife has determined that we "can't" be happy together. Not that we've really tried.<P>Counseling hasn't really helped. We spent all of our time talking about whether she wanted to "try" and about all the bad things we both did to cause us to grow apart. No talk about putting things back together, reconnecting, finding ways to have fun or be friends. Now she wants a long term separation and she wants to stop counseling. I guess talking openly about our relationship 1 hour a week is just too much for her right now. Sigh.<P>The part that I still find most bewildering is that there was no talk of separation, marriage counseling, divorce, etc. until I caught her cheating on me. Now, suddenly, it's impossible for us to live together or to work on saving our marriage. Do I sound frustrated? I am. To do this to our family for no good reason and without giving it a fair chance to work is something I'll never be able to understand. Her job is far more important to her at this point than saving a 14 year marriage.<P>She says she was attracted to the other man because of his optimism (of course he was cheating on his own wife in their house and in mine). Now she is nothing but pessimistic about our chances for reconciliation. She's very good at finding reasons why it can't possibly work between us. I try to just take it with a stoic smile. <P>I guess she'll be moving out at the end of this month. She says she doesn't want a divorce at this point but acknowledges that separation increases the chances that we will be divorced. She'll do it anyway because she just wants to be happy, and to hell with what makes me or our children happy.<P>I hope this is "fog", but I'm not sure I believe in it. I think she's just changed into someone I don't know anymore, and who wants to pretend her old life doesn't exist so she can freely pursue a new one.<P>If anyone has some hope to offer, I could use it. I'm not really worried about me or even my kids. We'll be just fine. It just seems like such a shame to quit on us without really putting a serious effort into working things out.<P>Yes, I'm in Plan A and have been since May. It takes two to make a marriage, and right now I'm the only one of us interested.<P>NP

Good Lord, no_patience, with the exception of kids your situation sounds frightenly like mine. I too am in my 4th month of Plan A and my WS has still not committed to reconciling. I'm no expert at this but what the good people here will tell you is that you can't force your W to return. If you are truly committed with all your heart to saving your marriage The only way that she will come back for real is if she does it on her own terms. It's really a terrible situation to live with. I asked my WS to move out of the house about 2 months ago and it was the only thing that kept me from insanity. My only suggestion at this point is to continue to Plan A as long as you can but make sure that above all maintain your self respect. You need to set boundaries and when they are crossed let her know and let her know what changes you expect in order to continue. Oh, and dont LB no matter how hard it might be. Keep me posted brother. Believe me, I feel your pain.

Just bumping this up in hopes of some more responses, a cyber hug, or anything other than the sound of internet crickets chirping.<P>Thanks, StillHIT. Misery loves company. I'll keep you posted. We're on the verge of a significant change because the lease on the place we're currently using for our trial separation expires at the end of the month. She's looking for a place to move into on a more permanent basis, and it looks like we're going into "let's see what divorce would be like" mode.<P>NP

No Patience,<BR> I&#8217;m sorry for your pain, knowing all too well what you&#8217;re going through. I&#8217;m not as far along as you, been about 6 weeks for me. Our stories are eerily familiar. The constant negativity &#8220;we can&#8217;t talk&#8221;, &#8220;we never talked&#8221; &#8220;all we have is a physical connection&#8221; on and on ad-nauseam. All 20 years of marriage have been a steaming pile of manure. Yep I know exactly what you mean&#8230; Makes me wonder why she went out with me a second time never mind married me. J She won&#8217;t commit to even start tyring yet she&#8217;s made no effort or preparations to go.. Anyway, being a very junior member of this club, I&#8217;m a bit hesitant about offering any advice. Here are a few things that have helped me the days I just want to curl up in a ball or throw her stuff out on the front lawn:<P>I think it was WAT that posted &#8220;10 rules for betrayed spouses&#8221; here. I printed a copy out and I read it every morning.<P>I try to find the amusement in some of the truly illogical and contradictory things she says. I suppose this falls under the heading of sometimes you have to laugh or you&#8217;ll surely cry&#8230;<P>I keep forgetting that Plan A is for me not her directly. Take care of yourself!!! There are precious few who will do it for you.<P>I ask myself everyday what I will do and I have done today to warrant her loving me. I figure developing that mindset will make me a better person in any event. Also, in my situation, I bear the lion&#8217;s share of the responsibility for our predicament. I have a great many things I need to prove to my WS.<P>I know it&#8217;s not much but it&#8217;s all I can offer. I&#8217;m terminally confused most days just trying to figure out if the coaster is going up or down. I have noticed that this stuff does work! My W hates this site (ironically she introduced me to it) ever since she read the infidelity section. Even so, I have seen some minor changes from day to day. I look at the recovery messages for encouragement sometimes as well. At least it lets me know that it can be done!!! Time and patience and one day at a time, I figure every day she&#8217;s not talking to a lawyer is a good day. At the very least (and it&#8217;s not much consolation) I figure at the end of the day, needs be I&#8217;ll be able to walk away knowing I did everything I could to save our M. I wish you all the best!!! Just keep on swinging and don&#8217;t let the [censored] wear you down!

Thanks sofar2go.<P>I really like the part about asking yourself each day what you've done to earn her love.<P>Hope my new signature shows up...<P>NP

Anytime NP. It works for me and it keeps the LBs to a minimum. I figure this is something I'll probably do for life. Hopefully with my W but with whomever I end up with. It'll make me a better person to be sure! Just for a bit of background. My wake-up call was my W's A. I discovered I've been "zoning" for years. Went and saw someone and was diagnosed with cronic depression. I've been hell to live with for at least 10 years, probably closer to 15 and my W tolerated it and tried to help. That's why I feel so responsible for our mess. I do have to earn her love and trust again, perhaps more-so than I hers. Best of luck to you!