<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

OffOnOnOff<BR>You need to take control of yourself and your thoughts!!!!<P>There are many people on this website that would love the opportunity to rebuild as you have!-including me.<P>Forgive your wife and think about tommorrow-not yesterday! If you don't, you may loose it all.

OOOO,<P>Call Steve & talk to him, no one on here can really give you the kind of advice you need now.<P>Just remember where you were you a few months ago and think what it could be like in another 6 months.<P>But again call Steve or if not him, talk with some one else.<P>I don't believe you will get the advice you need on this board, at this time in this board's life. Not unless some of the very wiseone's are hanging around. K, JL, ya'll know who you are. Haven't seen Wat lately either.

Oh O,<P>I cant help, but I can tellyou I feel the same. Its only been 6 months since my H came home and I wonder why I even wanted it. He is so distant, so unaffectionate. I cant remember the last time he touched me of his own initiation. I am thinking of asking him to either be in this relationship or to leave it. I dont know if its withdrawl, or he just doesnt like me. But its harder on the self esteem than the affair was... at least I could blame the OW then.<P>I find myself thinking I cant go on. I dont want a sterile marriage, I crave touch and intimacy. Of course then I feel guilty.. I know there is more to marriage than sex, but I dont have the other parts either. All he is is here. <P>I guess I need to call Steve myself. I know to some degree this is normal, but I dont know if I can go on much longer. It was better to be alone than lonely with him here. I will be reading to see if you get any great ideas, sorry to vent on your thread.<BR>lora

OOOO,<P>My H has recently admitted similar feelings to me as we continue to work through the rubble of my A that ended 9 mons ago. He has thoughts of having an A himself. I've caught him flirting on the net and asked him to talk to me about it. Since then I've been working even harder to please him and (I think) our M is improving every day.<P>Your feelings might stem from bitterness or jealousy. Maybe your jealous that your W had an exciting experience and you have to suffer with the cleanup. Maybe you want to feel some of what she experienced. I don't know - just basing this on what my H has told me of his own feelings.<P>I do not think that you should be too hard on yourself about wanting to leave W & kids. Honestly, I've been there before. Sometimes it only last a moment, sometimes it last weeks. Sometimes life would seem so much less stressful, or more fun, or whatever... without all the committments and responsibilities that come with family. But think for a moment how you would feel if you got a phone call one day from the hospital saying that your child had been in an accident. You'd be devasted. You really do love your children. This is just something you're going through and you need to identify where its coming from before you can work through it.<P>Not sure if anything I said really helps at all -- but my main point is that I think this is a normal reaction to what you've been through. Don't be too hard on yourself for feeling this way.

OOOO,<P>Now that the dust is settling, the two of you are sharing some enjoyable times together, the pressure is off(so to speak). Remember how long and hard you were fighting in the beginning? Now, things are a little smoother at home. You can stop to take a breath. You have time to think of other things besides "how to get my marriage back". You are probably exhausted from the effort it has taken this far and you are ready to receive a little love in return. I think that it is understandable where your mind is going. You have fought longer than most of us here with little to go on. Her balance in your love bank is dangerously low if not nonexistant. But, if you dwell in that place too long, you will set yourself up for failure. <BR>Remember your goal. Take some positive steps towards it. Have you had any more lunch or dinners alone with your wife lately? Does your wife have anythings that she is interested in outside of the home(art, theater, movies)? Why not invite her to share something like that with you? Make arrangements for a family member of good friend to have the kids over. That way the responsibility is not up to her. <BR>Test the waters a little. You may be suprised. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <BR>cleo

OOOO, time alone does not heal the wound. You need an ointment, too. I've been where you are -- WS seems to do it all right, you have some really nice days together with the kids, but it still feels like something is missing. You're wrapped in self-doubt, wondering if you've made a mistake by just being back with that person. <P>I don't know HOW you get over that wall since I feel like I was catapulted over it by some unseen force while I wasn't paying attention. I'm still sorting through it. I can tell you that I felt EXACTLY like you do for all of 15 months, with some vague sense of love for my H but nothing more. <P>The great catapulting happened a few weeks after HE once again shouldered the responsibility for the A's, but this time without adding explanations or excuses. He gave up blaming ME for any part of it, emotional distance, the arguing, none of it was brought up. And I coincidentally took a huge dip in the roller coaster, blowing up in a way I never had before and letting it ALL out. Over a year and you think I would have done that by now? [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] Nope! It all came out, I gave up and he hung on without a word. And everything felt different the very next day. <P>Maybe you don't need that to happen. Maybe you need to get it all out though, completely and honestly and let her see how raw the whole thing really has left you. Does she know that you think about D? Does she know your doubts? <P>You're not going to get there by walking on eggshells. Some serious treading needs to be done. <P>(((((OOOO))))<P>Snow

OOOO - ditto sing<P>I can't directly relate, of course, but I can imagine having similar thoughts. What seems to be missing for you (and Lora) is the most basic effort on the part of your spouse. Indifference becomes rejection when it's chronic.<P>I don't recall whether your W outright rejects counseling, but you certainly deserve to have her give it a try. BSs haven't a prayer of educating our spouses - in the least it seems that an "independent" observer has the best chance of breaking through - and if it's a counselor the WS selects, all the better chance. Once again, I have NO direct experience here, only the collected information offered here over many months.<P>WAT

OOOO,<P>I agree with everything that has been posted thus far.<P>It has been 20 months now. You have been carrying this load for a long time. Your W has done little if anything to help you. You are very tired, and it is very reasonable. I also think you realize that you will need more than your W returning to pre-A marriage, as that one wasn't so super either with her choosing to sleep with the children rather than you for 10 years.<P>My observation is that you are transfering some of the weariness of this all to the children, because you W has used them as a weapon against you for all of these years. Frankly, her behavior in using the kids to avoid sex, intimacy, and facing the possibility of divorce then after the affair is just sick.<P>So I sit here and fully understand why you want to leave it all behind. Your only experience with the kids AND your W has been her using them against you. I would say you are pretty normal, and believe me far more patient than I would ever have been.<P>I don't think you are bad, sick, or a delinquent Dad. I think you are a human being that has had too much shoved down their throat.<P>But, (you knew this was coming [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ) you owe it to yourself, and your kids, if not your W to see if you can make it a little further. So call Steve Harley and talk with him, tell him how you feel. <P>I have said this before, I think it is time for Plan B. You have done Plan A as well as you can. You W sees that you have been patient and true, she may even have some feelings for you. She doesn't see what she has done too the kids with respect to their fathers love. It may do you good to get a break from the family.<P>So talk with him, your feelings seem very reasonable to me. YOU ARE TIRED AND LOSING HOPE.<P>Hang in there OOOO,<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Hi OOOO,<P>JL makes good sense. When those shields start to go down, then we feel vulnerable. Always thinking "what if". Your trust level is not in a comfortable zone. <P>Can you tell your W that? I know you said there is no intimacy but what about her efforts in rebuilding your trust?<P>For me it is similar. I usually have to initiate the good bye hug or kiss, the hi I'm home kiss and hows your day been stuff. H knows I like to done to me. Still he has a hard time. (that excuse is getting old). <P>We women are a funny bunch, some like to tease others like to be pleased. Ok, ask your W which one she is? That's a light and friendly way of find out how to treat her in a way that may make her receptive. If she pushes that off, then you may need to think about plan B. <P>She really needs to learn to appreciate you. Marriage is a 2 way street. Otherwise there is an imbalance between the giver and the taker. Regardless of which one is which the imbalance is bad for the M. <P>Giving some support, hope it helps. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.

Hi OOOO--<P>My first thought was from a book I recently read, "Affair-Proof" Your Marriage by Lana Staheli...that recovery takes between 1 and 3 years...and that one shouldn't 'rush' through the process because it takes awhile to truly bring to light all that led to the environment of the marriage...rushing through the process doesn't eliminate the pain...<P>Second...check yourself for depression...are you on meds? if so, do they need to be re-evaluated?<P>Third...this paragraph seemed appropriate...I hope you think so too:<P><I><B>We Have the Ability to Turn Fears into Truths</B><BR>*Fear of being hurt creates distance and defensive responses, does not allow intimacy and results in isolation, then hurt.<BR>*Fear of abandonment creates suspicion and jealousy, making others hide their normal doubts and disappointments, and eventually results in abandonment.<BR>*Believing an affair is the end of a marriage often makes it so.<BR>*Our perceptions determine how we react to a situation and often our perceptions are wrong.<BR>*Stress comes with life; it is how we interact with it that determines the outcome.</I><P>Take care of yourself!<BR>Cali

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

OOOO,<P>I don't care what you do, talk with Steve Harley. I will tell you that worrying what everyone will think is not going to get this done. If you finally lose ALL love for your W, then there will be nothing left to rebuild with.<P>If you leave it doesn't mean you have left your kids. You can live down the street, you can do many things. See a lawyer and talk about your rights, what you can and cannot do.<P>Then talk to your W. She doesn't need to discuss this with you if she doesn't want to, but she does need to know what you are thinking and where you are.<P>She may not be married to you, but you are married to her. So tell her where you are and leave it at that. Don't beg, don't try to manipulate. Just tell her the lack of a real marriage or connection to her is killing your love. You are in the process of deciding what to do.<P>Your W is hiding behind the kids and she is using them to control you. This will work for only as long as you let it. By the way, what has happened to her job???<P>I sure hope you talk to Harley and then your W.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

O,<P>I think I may have a little insight into this one. First of all you need affection. If you can't get it from W go to someone "safe". I used my sister. Sometimes I would drive 30 min. to her house just for a hug!<P>The thinking of leaving thing had me down too. I also have 2 wonderful children and didn't want to leave them but didn't want to take care of them either. I had cut off my emotions so I wouldn't get hurt any more and in doing so lost my emotions for my kids. I know it hurts, but you have to turn them back on. All the time! Another part of my wanting to leave was selfishness. My H was having all kinds of "fun" while I wasn't and now I want to have fun too. The thing is, no matter how many times I went out, I didn't have any fun. Then I started feeling guilty for not spending enough time with my kids. You will be in a better mind set if you keep yourself busy. My worst times were driving in the car. I had all kinds of time to go over how hurt I was and everything H had done. By the time I got home I was in a real "funk". I went and bought a Disney CD. I know this sounds crazy, but my attitude improves greatly when I spend my whole ride home singing Zippity Doo Da at the top of my lungs [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I'm sure everyone who sees me thinks I'm crazy, but SO WHAT!<P>Your whole letter sounds exactly like me! I hope I helped a little [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<P>Jen

OOOO,<P>Listen to JL <B><I>BUT CALL STEVE, CALL STEVE, CALL STEVE, CALL STEVE, CALL STEVE</I></B><P>I'm doing okay, could be better but doing alright, getting poorer by the day.<BR> [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]<P>[ October 20, 2001: Message edited by: sing ]<p>[ October 20, 2001: Message edited by: sing ]

OoOo, <BR>Ity sounds like what your feeling is the affects of BETRAYAL! I too understand what your going through and if you let it, it will drive you crazy. Step back and take a good look at your life with your wife and children, you are going to have to recover and heal from your W's affair to be happy. I think you definetly need a mediator to help. She/he with the help of this web site can help both of you to rebuild and recover. Until you get over her betraying you in which she needs to play a big part in and convince you that she cares, it's going to be hard to continue with her. If I knew a person was truly sorry, realized what she did was wrong and was doing everything possible to make it better then I would feel better and be able to recover from the betrayal. But if I were you I would look at her attitude about the whole thing and see how her character is; example: If she didn't think it was wrong or say she tried to justify her actions or blame you or blame the relationship or said she thought it was over (in other words justify her betrayal in anyway) then I would think about walking away because she lacks good character and doesn't see anything wrong (to a point) and will probably do it again in the future.<p>[ October 22, 2001: Message edited by: Tomstocks ]

Dear OffOnOnOff<P>I have been following a few of your threads lately and feel that all this waiting you are doing for your wife to be a part of your life the way you are hoping for has really taken a toll on you. Please, please listen to "just learning"s advice. He really said it how it is. <P>You deserve to be happy. You deserve to find someone who will love you completely and give you all the love, affection and intimacy that you long for. Dont allow your wife to crush your self-esteem with her self-centered remarks. What about your time to heal? When and how will your wife help you to heal from all the pain and betrayal. This is not just about HER. <P>You are a very strong and loving father to dedicate yourself to your family for so long only to sacrifice your own happiness along the way. However, you need to realise that you can still be a great father even if you choose to walk away from your marriage. Please consider moving on to Plan B and find the peace that you need to reach for the happiness that you deserve.<BR>Good luck ((((OOOO))))<BR>TOS

.<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>