I'm curious as to how many people have had real success with the MB theory. <P>Did the WS come home and you're both working on it and everything is looking good?<P>Personally, MB isn't going to work for us. My WS won't allow it. I can use the Plan A for my own sanity, but I don't ever see him coming back. I do hope that someday he realizes what he walked away from - but I don't believe I could ever trust him again. He admits to having A's for the last 8 years - and I never knew. Never had a clue. <BR>A very accomplished liar. And to keep coming home to me, to bed with me, to telling me he loves me. Makes me want to puke.

I used the MB principles for me and the hope of winning my H back home. However, it was that with a mix of 'tough love' that got through to him. <P>He was totally against MB at first too. Especially during our separation.. all he could hear was nonsense in his head. For example, I'd tell him about the no socializing with people of the opposite sex without POJAing. All he'd hear is that I wouldn't allow him to have any female friends. Ever.<P>Now that we're in recovery (for about 5 months), he's warmed up to the concepts. He can now see how it's really just a lot of common sense and taking each others' feelings into consideration all the time (something we failed to do for a few years sigh!).<P>Don't figure out the outcome of your situation quite yet. You're still very early into the whole thing. And since you're here, I'll assume you want to work on your marriage. If that's the case, then you can still use the MB principles. Even if it's just for you, that's okay. You'll become a better and all around stronger person because of it. No matter what the outcome is.<P>Karen

Nothing can guarantee to outcome of a human relationship -too many variables. But MB gives us a plan that has a greater possibility of success than most. <P>And I agree with Topie that regardless of the fate of the M, the BS has to opportunity to become a wiser, stronger, more confident, and, yes, even a more compassionate person than she would have been otherwise. When all is said and done, the BS knows that she has given the relationship the best effort she could. In that effort, she builds self-respect and the courage and wisdom to go on to build stronger relationships in the future.<P>This is the fundamental value of the MB process.<P>billbailey, I wish you strength and eventual peace as you work through this sad time in your life.<P>Estes<p>[ October 21, 2001: Message edited by: Estes49 ]

billbailey,<BR>Yes, MB concepts have worked for us, even though my partner knows very little of the concepts. He's not a relationship book reader, didn't want counselling..pretty much wanted to just go on together and get over it. But, I bought into the concepts...Plan A (for me) wasn't just showing him the best person I could be, it was BECOMING the best person I could be...I had been unhappy in the relationship before the A also...some blame to the relationship, but I had to look at myself and how I was developing as a person...with or without him. And, I really didn't think we'd get back together...figured I better be someone I loved!<P>Plan B was not only a way to preserve remamining love for him while he was going back and forth..it was a way for me to back off from the situation and preserve my own confidence...a way to get some space.<P>When we finally did get back together, I tried like all get out to get him to read and discuss MB issues..the love bank, en's, Love Busters..ect...he honestly hated it...But I did tell him how I looked at myself and figured out where MY weaknesses were and how I wanted to improve.<P>The hardest thing to do is to back off and let your partner make his own way in recovery. That doesn't mean that you do...lead by example.<P>The one concept that he agreed with (even though he had no idea at the time) was recreational companionship...I arranged things that I knew he would enjoy and relax around...golf, sports events, movies..things that were more about having fun together instead of the same old drudge...we grew into friends again...then we were able to become more intimate. It took awhile..couple months.<P>So, yes, I like the MB concepts..I think they are easy to understand and give you something concrete to work with in a time of tremendous stress.<P>And, even if our relationship hadn't worked out, I became a better person...when you think about it..the MB principles can be applied to other relationships..kids, inlaws, work as well as your marriage.<P>T

I dunno BB, but I am still in plan A, on my fourth C. WS even get mad at Steve and did it as "a favor to me", I do not think she will talk to him again. However my W from plan to D to calm down and stay home. She still wanted D and called lawyer however she did not pull the trigger. She still strays and disappears most of the night [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] However she is confused like hell. She blames everything on me .. etc .. etc ... "still in the fog". But she sees me changing. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Heck I am not changed at all I just understand her better and fill in what she starve for. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <BR>I think I have to go to plan B [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] to break the addiction to OM [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <P>In short MB catched my eyes in search of answer and is preaching what Bible & great grandma told me ... so far is working. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

bb,<P>the MB principles are working for us. It's not an easy path and the outcome isn't certain but we're trying. My W is not a believer but that doesn't stop me implementing the ideas.<P>Out of interest, which of the MB principles isn't working for you?<P>- Freddy.

Dear billbailey,<BR>Yes, the MB principles are working for my H and me & we are both enthusiastic recipients of the information presented on this website. Then, we have not had any affairs either.<P>I had an affair with a married man years before I met and married in which a child was born. I raised my son alone before I got married.<P>Now that I am married, I am endeavoring to affair-proof my marriage. I can only imagine the devastation I helped cause to another family AND to my son, but all is well, thanks to God and His everlasting mercy.<P>I wish your husband could be more open. I guess MB is simply not for everybody (esp. WSs for some reason). Perhaps if you created a way to present the ideas without actually stating the terminology. We shared MB with another couple and the wife told the husband it was a "love buster" when he mentioned the words "love buster!" [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<P>The way I presented the questionnaires to my husband was that I wanted to meet his needs but I needed to first know what they are and I asked him if he was willing to fill out the questionnaires and review them with me. That was the start, but we did it gradually, like maybe 3-4 pages at a time. We took it really really slow.<P>MB principles need to be digested and not something you can really shove down someone's throat. If you generally have been neglecting the baby, it won't get strong and healthy overnight. But I do believe with a mixture of faith and patience, God can do wonders. Don't give up hope yet! <<<<<HUGS TO YOU>>>>>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Freddy:<BR><STRONG><BR>Out of interest, which of the MB principles isn't working for you?<BR></STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Freddy,<P>Basically all of them. He couldn't have run out the door much more quickly - and won't discuss anything but the divorce or the kids with me. I'm being calm and rational - but only for my own sanity. I honestly don't think I'd have him back - even if he begged. He's caused too much pain and when you've been fed as many lies as I have, you have trouble believing anything they say.<P>He's still seeing OW. Claims they met while on business travel, which they both do a lot of. Claims he doesn't even know if it will lead to anything serious. Since they're both going to continue to travel for business, they're going to continue making plans to see each other.<P>I wanted him and my marriage back for about a month, but I've stopped wasting my time and energy on those thoughts. It's all over but the paperwork. I've accepted that there are some that just can't be saved - and this is one of them.

Oh, I'm so sorry for you and the kids. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] God will make up this loss to you guys somehow. He is so good. Keep the faith!

bb,<P>I'm sorry to hear your news. It takes two to want the marriage to work because it does take two to make it. Damn, after 22 years of marriage it's a bitter, bitter pill to swallow to hear that your H doesn't even want to try. Shame on him.<P>The A isn't the solution, it won't solve any problems. You H knows that. The A isn't even the cause of your break-up. Just a shame your H can't be straight with you but he's obviously bothered by what it is he should be discussing with you.<P>Don't stop PlanAing bb, that's important for you. And if you need it, drop a PlanB in place so you protect your love for him. Sounds like you might need to do this.<P><BR>take care of yourself,<P>- Freddy

Depends on what you call "worked".<P>Did the MB work for me? Absolutely. This is probably a question better asked on recovery or the divorcing board though. <P>The MB principles do not work over night and they don't work the way newcomers usually expect. Those who put plan A into practice and don't get results in a few weeks or even a few months will often say "it didn't work".<P>I felt that I was a success story long before my H stopped his affair and decided to come home.<P>Plan A gave me back my self-esteem, gave me backbone, and gave me the confidence to take care of myself. Plan A allowed me to look very hard at who I was. I didn't like who I was, and so I set out to change that. I didn't like ME, and since I couldn't change my H anyway, I set out make ME the best ME I could be. <P>Steve Harley told me last March that divorce was the only thing he could recommend to me at that time. Hardly a success - if you define success as using Plan A to get your spouse to stop their affair.<P>My H loved my changes, but didn't stop his affair. While a spouse is mired in the fog of attraction to someone else, there's really nothing to do. <P>But I liked my changes, and I started liking ME alot more. THAT was my success. I turned my back on my marriage and started my divorce with the confidence that I had done everything I could, that my marriage was over but that I had taken full and complete responsiblity for MY part of the problems, and that I had proved that I could learn to do differently AND that I was capable of being a valuable, worthwhile spouse myself.<P>The end of our marriage was not MY failure. That's what Plan A did for me. I didn't walk away from our marriage a broken, bitter, devastated victim that had been dumped for someone better. I walked away a better person.<P>After all of this had transpired, and I had declared myself a winner - my H's affair died a natural death. Because his affair was dying, his OW was LBing alot, and THATs when my changes and my plan A made a difference for my H.<P>My Plan A never convinced my H to choose me over the OW. Had that been my objective, the results would have been disasterous on my emotional state.<P>What Plan A did was convince my H, AFTER the affair, that I had become someone that he believed he could rebuild with. He came back for the kids, but he would not have, if he hadn't thought that I was someone he could live with.<P>So, my divorce complaint was dismissed.<P>After 18 months of separation, he moved home.<P>We are nearing our 4th month of recovery, and while its rocky at times, its going pretty well.<P>My H doesn't like to read, but he has read some of the articles and bits of the books. He's done counseling with Steve Harley, and so he has a general grasp of the principles.<P>We use a combination of Plan A, and the 5 Love Languages, and its working for us.

To answer your initial question. Yes MB has worked for me, just not for us. Although my wife (WS) is still at home w/me right now, it is not much of a marriage, but the kids (4&6) are mostly unaware of our/her problems and in a much better frame of mind than when this started. As for me&#8230;I'm a much better person/husband/father because of MB principles. No matter how my situation ends, I will know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I made a stand for what I believed in, learned more about people and relationships that I ever thought possible, found I could stand proudly again. I think for the most part I'll never look back at how I reacted to my wife's EMA and feel bad or that a different approach would have been better.<P>Today I am no longer bitter, upset or hurt by her actions & words. Any reaction or feeling I have to those type of things leans mostly towards sympathy and sorrow for her and how devastatingly painful it must be to see the world through her eyes. So&#8230;yes in general SAA/MB is a great approach to moving forward as a non-wounded person.<P>I wish you the best, this might be the most difficult time you will ever find yourself in, but I promise that somewhere there is a light at the end of the tunnel. It's up to you to decide if the light is the most beautiful thing you've ever seen or if it shines so brightly that it hurts to look at it.<P>HI

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by billbailey:<BR><STRONG>I'm curious as to how many people have had real success with the MB theory. <P>Did the WS come home and you're both working on it and everything is looking good?<BR></STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, it worked for us. And we never went to counseling, nor does my H even have a clue that MB exists. I did modify soem things to suit my situation better, and I see nothing wrong with that. I was told my Plan B letter wasn't a "correct" Plan B for example. But it worked. My Plan B only lasted for 3 days lol. My H came home and was happy to be here. 2 and a half years now and I couldn't ask for a better marriage.

Hi BB,<BR>check this one out ....<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=013166" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=013166</A> <P>He is not helplessss at all and smart guy w/ doit yourself MB. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Yes, MB worked, even though it took 2 years. I have to agree with Bramblerose, that those who don't give it time may think it failed. I think the most important part of Plan A is giving the BS time to sort through what they really want, and what they are willing to do & how long they will wait to make that possible. And even if the marriage doesn't recover, the person does.

MB has given my XW and I a guide for recovery. It has helped a great deal in identifing our Emotional Needs and pointing out our Love Busting ways. <P>But for me, above anything else, seeing other people's recoverys, gave me hope. It gave me reason to believe that we could get past this. And I am so glad to that I did believe. We ended up hitting rock bottom, actually divorced, but we are in recovery now and doing great. We are as happy as can be and our future looks brighter than ever. I am confident that as long as we keep meeting each other's ENs and avoiding LBs we are going to be fine, and probably better than ever. Meeting each other's needs has been great, we are pampering each other like never before and loving every second of it.

Hi,<P>For me, MB has worked. For WS/H, yes it has for him also but he is not a participating member. <P>H & I (more like H only) had a 1 time phone counseling session with Steve Harley. H claims to not like Steve but he held a 45 minute conversation with him of our 1 hour session. I got 10 minutes and 5 minutes were joint. H still claims not to like Steve. I have shared many posts and writeups here with H. He still doesn't like my being here but I let him know that this place became my support when he wasnt. He knows and respects it. He still is a bit jealous but does ask from time to time. <P>This slow attitude adjustment was not quick. Here is the timeline:<P>d/d 11/22/00<BR>WS moved out 12/31/00<BR>WS moved home 4 times April, July, August, <BR>WS has shown signs of being home mentally and physically since Sept 01. <P>I found MB end of Dec00 <BR>Registered Jan 01. <BR>Gave H writeup binder on Mb Jan 01. <BR>Had counseling session with Steve Jan 01. <P>L.