I've only known about the A for about two weeks now, and in that time we had both gone to a couples counsellor and we were talking about it nearly every night. Last week, she started staying at a friend's house because she felt "uncomfortable" being here and couldn't sleep. Part of it was that I wouldn't leave her alone about it, I was pressing WAY too hard.<P>My question is this... I think I'm on the right track with my attitude and I can keep my anger in check...I can take that out here, or at my (now) individual counselling sessions. We're having dinner Thursday night and I'm wondering if I should broach the subject of having her try to come home and stay.<P>I know that I'll have to promise to leave her alone, and I CAN do that. The way I see it, how am I supposed to PlanA, if we don't see each other often. <P>I know that I'm making changes and my anti-depressants ARE beginning to help. I think that having her here would tend to ease my suspicions that she's ALWAYS with the OM, even though she hasn't committed to end it yet, she DID say that that was the decision she'd PROBABLY come to...she just didn't want to be TOLD to do it. I'm hoping that her individual psych will reaffirm the need to end it with the OM.<P>I don't know if she'd be willing to move back or not, but I'd sure like to know. Is it too soon, it's not like we're REALLY separated, she just went there to stay (symantics I know).<P>Thanks,<BR>Kev

I feel if she is still in contact with OM than I would not want her to come back until she could commit to you 100%, also if she did come back would you be checking up on her constantly and worrying if she is with the OM?? Love Sally

Um, yeah, I'm checking on her and wondering constantly NOW. But at least if she was here, I wouldn't wonder if it's say 10 at night or something...even though I KNOW that she needs to get sleep before work the next day, if she's not here it just goes around in my little brain.<P>My concern is that for the last year, it's almost been as if I had been Plan B'ing her, because I was suffering depression and was NOT HERE! I absolutely withdrew and probably didn't meet ANY (ok, the financial one, just reviewed the EN checklist) of her needs. But I'm getting better now, and she's not here to see that I CAN meet her ENs. Maybe THEN, she'd commit to ending it with the OM (I hope and believe that she'll reach that decision anyway, I've just been pressing that particular issue REALLLLLLLY hard over the last two weeks, i.e. parental intervention, written contracts, promises to me, our pastor, and our (at the time) counsellor, etc...) I know, I'm a FREAK. But I just knew that she HAD to end it with him. Whether or not WE stay together, she's got to distance herself from him to heal HER.<P>It's (maybe) been 3 days since she saw him, and I know that falls WAY short of the min. 3 weeks....but I wanna GO GET A MOVE ON!<P>Thanks...I'm TRYING to keep my smile on through this (believe it or not, it helps me).<P>Kev

You sound really upbeat, thats great I sure hope everything works out for you and your W. Believe me I know what its like when your brain starts wandering I have done that plenty of times.WS need to end things on thier own time I know that sounds selfish but the whole situation is selfish,There is a way to be supportive without seeming needy I am working on this, When you act needy even if you don't realize it because you condiser it planA but WS don't see it that way. And that makes them withdraw more, the more they see you can live without them the more they start to slowly come out of fog. Am I making Sense???? Love Sally

I really disagree with the way this thread is going. She is in the fog ... you are in no psition of demanding anything, that includes ending the A. If you could take it you should ask W back. I kicked my WS and 3 days later W is asking to come back by asking where do I sleep ?. If I pushed her to far she will be with OM and she might have to file D to get spousal support. By then I read about how hard people working plan A from a distance .... I took her back and it is not easy. W has still saying about D but she did not file it since I put plan A together. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] W still strayed out almost every other night however W now confused like hell. She is in and out of the fog. She now give me lib kisses before I go to work. By having her around I could measure my progress chipping away the fog with my plan A and really LISTEN TO HER REAL ISSUE.<BR>In short, read other posts where you will see a lot of BS will give anything to have WS around so that they could work on plan A better.<BR>However as a warning, get ready since you will be in roller coaster ride of your life and you are looking right at WS !!!!. I have to drink medicine to calm down my stomach, pill to sleep and occational anti D.

Redhat, Not sure I am following, your saying that WS should stay with BS even if contact with OP is still going on??? Maybe my feelings go against MB but How do you planA when you know your S is having A, I asked mine to leave if contact was going on, they need to commit 100% or they should leave and have as little contact as possible. I don't feel this is being demanding its just having respect for yourself and kids if there are any. let WS be in fog some where else and realize what they are giving up, let them feel the pain they caused us. Sally

According to S. Harley, The WS & BS should try to co-habitate as long as the BS can keep their emotions in check and not LB. Otherwise the BS will not have much of an opportunity to see any changes. Even when the WS is still seeing the OP. You are supposed to keep this attitude until you can no longer avoid LB'ing and then its time for plan B.<P>That was advice I received when we both (WS & I) still lived together and I wanted to run. I'm not so sure what to tell you now that she is already out of the house. I think asking her to move back right now would almost put you in a doormatish or needy position. It is probably a good idea to let her know that she is welcome, but stop shy of asking right now.<P>If it were me, I think I would start by asking her out on a few dates and see where that goes. Even if she still dating the OP. Just try to keep the attitude you might have had when you first started dating, one of "she might be dating someone else but he can&#8217;t hold a candle to me." Oh yea be sure to make you dates memorable not just the same-ol dinner/movie thing and try to set some ground rules to have fun and not talk about the EMA all the time.<P>Just MHO,<BR>Good luck<P>HI<p>[ October 24, 2001: Message edited by: Hi Infidelity ]

Ok, just a couple of points. No kids, was hoping to start a couple of months ago. The first week after I figured it out, that's all I could talk about with her. When we weren't talking, we were giving the tiptoe silent treatment to each other. Neither of us was sleeping, though I was on sedatives ASAP. And I WAS incredibly needy...that's all she could tell her friends about me until the REAL truth came out (yeah, that would be my bad in a fit of anger...big LB).<P>I think now, that if she could handle being in the house, I could as well. I actually WANT to talk to her about other things. Plus it'd make it just that more inconvenient for them to be together....I've caught them together quite a few times even after she promised she wouldn't have contact (fingers crossed, I guess- shoulda said "NO CROSSIES!"). Anyway, she knows that I'm checking up on her, just maybe not quite how much. I might have caught her again tonight, we'll see if she was smart enough to actually GO to the store after her girlfriend told me that's where she is....we'll see Thursday as we're doing bills that night.<P>Anyway, I'm rambling. I reviewed the EA checklist and for the last year.....I've provided NOTHING (except money)! I've been in such a depressive state (clinically speaking) and just plain shut myself off....so as a result I'm >>>REALLY<<< threatened by the OM - or rather the relationship (even though he's 19, and she was raised deeply Christian, and statistics are against it working, and all that). I truly believe that she LOVES him and not me (obviously). But I also believe that given some separation from HIM, and some proximity to ME, I could bewitch her again (just like in college).<P>In the mean time, I'm driving myself absolutely nuts. I AM working on me, but anytime I'm not TOTALLY occupied, there I go in a jealous panic. Then even when I happen to try to contact her innocently, FREAK OUT AND GO SPYING! CRIPES! Ya know, if she was here, maybe we could revisit the ground rules that we'd established in the first week...she accepted the fact that I'd need to know when, where, with whom she was, then again maybe not after all my crap the last couple of weeks.<P>MAN, she's smarter than this! She says she thinks of me as a friend, but with friends like this.....<P>By the way, for any of you teachers out there (I noticed we seem to have quite a few). Wouldn't this violate your ETHICAL CONDUCT clause (provided your district has one)...I mean this is a 19 year old former student and it's an EMA....not much more unethical than that (maybe throw in some rabbits or something).<P>Ok, I've vented enough for now. I look forward to your further comments.<P>Kev

It's probably time to quit checking up on her. Unless there's talk of reconciliation (on her part), you'll only be tormenting yourself. Just doesn&#8217;t help you to know any more than you already do. <P>It's been a while, but I can relate to the jealous panic, needing to know where my wife was and what she was doing at all times. The biggest difference was my wife was cheating with her boss while traveling for business (kinda like moving out 6 days a week) and I couldn't hop in a car to go see what she was doing.<P>I know this is difficult, but you really need to get in a better place if you want her back. Odds are that this will test your patience more than you can see right now. (I can relate to that one as well) <P>Think about what she sees when she looks at you and your actions. She would probably describe you as a needy, whacked out soon to x-husband. Unfortunately (right now) most of her emotional ties with you are broken, preventing her from seeing you and your actions through realistic and sympathetic eyes as a jilted husband who is writhing in pain. <P>For the most part here's how you (and most every one else) need to progress. Be and act like a person she wants to come home to (plan-a). Confidence and security beat needy and obsessive every time. Whether you like it or not, you are in competition with the OM, but that competition only really starts when she is ready to look in your direction. Unfortunately you have no idea when she'll decide to look back your way and neither does she, just be as ready as possible by being that person that looks more attractive to her at all times.<P>I have to cut this short because I have to run and take the kids to school right now. . I'll write some more later on some techniques to help you get out of the "what's she doing right now funk" <P><BR>HI

Kev,<P> Can you think of a few things to get your mind off of her and what she's doing? Is there anything you always thought that you might want to take up or learn? Just any activity that has one or more of the following qualities: 1) burns adrenaline - exercise, sports, blading, bunjee jumping, pilot lessons, car racing schools 2) Engages your mind - Metal sculpture, learning a new language, coaching kids sports, learn to play an instrument, poetry for open mic night somewhere, dance classes. 3) Involves socializing - bowling/softball/pool/dart leagues, chess/fantasy football/investment clubs, movies/bbq/get together with friends & family, boys trip to Vegas/Caribbean/camp out/fishing/hunting/echo hikes.<P> I think you get the idea. Something for you, something new and different. You'll look much better in her eyes and have something new to talk about. Of all the above #3 was most important to me. I just couldn't sit around the house waiting and thinking. I had to do something to feel like I wasn't just waiting for the other shoe to fall. Once I figured out that "something" was not trying to show the WS what she needed to do or how I had changed, I became much more at peace with the situation. <P> Getting your mind off of the situation will come slowly at first. I remember the 1st time that I went 10 minutes. Then the fist 3-4 hours. <BR> <BR> Oh yea.. I wanted to expand upon one aspect of the date thing from the previous post. Should you go down that route, try to consider what advantages you can bring to the table over a 19-year-old kid. What can you do with her that he can't? And of those things, what would be most fun for her. Try not to be obvious but understand and use your strengths. One last thing, probably a good idea to shy away from the overnight/trip date for a while. I think I might be the only husband who has ever taken his wife to Key West, Jamaica & the Bahamas in one year and no romance (per say) only shopping and alcohol. Doing stuff like that too soon can be devastating to your spirit. <P><BR>Good luck,<P>HI<p>[ October 24, 2001: Message edited by: Hi Infidelity ]

KEV!!!! First of all, TAKE A BREATH. Whew. Listen to what everyone here is saying. First and foremost, you CANNOT control your W's actions. Trust us on this one, we have ALL been where you are right now. You cannot FORCE her to stop seeing OM, no matter HOW unhealthy you feel the relationship is. What everyone's saying about coming off as needy and controlling and obsessive is so very true. She's going to RUN as far away from that as possible. Take some steps back, NOW. Don't mean to sound harsh, but I did exactly what you're doing and it cost me MONTHS more anguish. Months more of my H thinking OW was his SOULMATE. Please, PLEASE read Surviving an Affair as soon as you can. If you can afford it, call and see if you can talk to Steve Harley AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. You are taking the steps to help yourself, but you need to get ahold of the emotions. It's an extremely painful, awful situation, but please listen to those who have gone here before you. I am praying for you and your W. Take care...<P>MOM

>>>>WHEW<<<<< <P>Ok, thanks MOM!<P>HI FI - I like the way you think....pilot's license, HMMMM. Actually, I AM doing exactly those things, just started working out again, got back into Darts, Softball. RE-making the list of things I want to do to/around the house (though I'm a little unsure if I want to spend much on those because though I THINK I could afford to stay in the house, I'd hate to be wrong and then not get a return on those investments), etc...<P>As far as your final points, >>>>>I<<<<< know what I can bring (back) to the relationship -vs what the "kid" can, and that I'm not concerned much about. I know the kind of person I am and I know that my W loved that person, not the cold, withdrawn person I've been over the last year (maybe 4). That's just plain not me. And I DO agree with you about the trips. I don't that'll have a place until/unless she commits to rebuilding our relationship (as has been suggested in this articles et. al. on this site).<P>Back to MOM- Believe me, I AM listening, and I AM believing what I'm hearing. Now applying that.....HMMMM. It's difficult to say the least. I've read and printed all the aritcles (and more) that you've mentioned. And I truly believe that there's some good advice here. I would like to be spending more time with her as is suggested herein, I believe it says try for 15 hours per week (but I don't know if that's during the recovery stages - which at this point I know we're FAR from - or whether that applies now). But I really don't want to seem "needy" (as described by W) in the asking.<P>Now the "ahold of emotions" part is really going to be a tough one for me. You see, I'm VERY visually expressive and easily read (especially by my W) when it comes to emotional states. So even though I KNOW that I need to control the emotions, they'd still be there and W might (probably) pick up on them....even though I'd be trying to focus on HER ENs at that particular time.<P>I thank you all for you input and support, you have NO idea (well, maybe) how much it is helping me right now. Hopefully, I'll be able to reciprocate some day soon.<P>Thanks and God Bless<BR>Kev

I'm not a teacher but I think I can answer the ethical conduct question. If OM no longer goes to school and is over the age of 18, then she has probably has not violated a professional ethical conduct guideline. Now I would venture to say that if you asked her peers (don&#8217;t) the same question, they would tell you that she has violated their own personal ethical conduct guidelines. It's just not something that is grounds for a disciplinary action. I'd also guess that if this kind of thing gets out at her school that most of her peers will distance themselves from her very quickly. They will assume the "worst" as people tend to do (especially in school/student settings) and think that this could have started when the kid was still her student. PTA's live to debate this stuff.<P>Do what ever you can to protect her from this happening by your hand (or mouth), When and if this gets out&#8230;she'll be feeling very alone except for the OM. This is definitely a time when you will need to be in that better place because it won&#8217;t take much of a rocket scientist for her to see that her peers alienation is not because of you but because of her relationship with OM.<P>Unlike my other posts, this one is mostly speculation from my crystal ball. I think it's entirely possible but take this advice with a grain of salt.<P><BR>HI

Kev,<BR>Please remember that when they talk about the 15 hours spent together (and most everything else as far as the recovery part goes), they are talking about AFTER the WS has made the commitment to end all contact with OP and commit to the marriage. I feel like you're getting way ahead of yourself here. Concentrate on Plan A first. Make you the BEST you that you can be. Make yourself the best choice for your W, without forcing yourself on her. Make sense?? I know I'm not as good with words as others here, but I was an obsessive, controlling BS, and so I know exactly what you're doing. Take care,<P>MOM

Wow, I actually typed that out loud? I'm sure I must have been venting (or rambling) at the time.<P>For sure, the thought had crossed my mind in one of my fits of anger, but I have NO intention of pressing this issue. I wouldn't like myself very much if I did, even in the event of a D.<P>But I know that initially, this was a fear of hers. She asked someone (not sure of this other person's role, maybe NEA rep?), and they pretty much assured her that if it isn't a CURRENT student, she'd be OK. But I just don't see it that way. Doesn't matter, I was just mainly curious. Because quite a few of her "peers/friends" (younger ones anyway- 30 or younger) already know and I'd hate for the last part of your post to become the case.<P>I just wish one or two of THEM would point her to the wrong she's committing in the A and in not trying to work on the M. But they mostly seem to be taking the "romantic" tack..."AW your M is having trouble and you're not happy, end it." and "AW, you're REALLY in love with the OM, pursue it."<P>It's like the fog is contagious or something. <P>Oh, well, thanks.<BR>Kev