My mindset says it's not over...his says it is. Should I stop reminding him there are ways to save it?

YES<p>Educating your H is a big LB. It often comes across as disrespectful. <p>So STOP LB'ing.

First, I'd suggest changing your screen name. You might feel a whole lot better if you saw yourself as someone other than Terrified.<p>Second, YES, YES, YES!!!!!!!!! If you ever want to save your marriage you'll be a lot better off if you just leave him alone and quit trying to educate him and convince him that the marriage can be saved. He has to get to the point of seeing that on his own. You'll be much more effective if you pull yourself up by your bootstraps and tell him he's free to do whatever he wants,that you're going forward with your life and don't intend to let yourself be brought down by his behavior any longer.Then do just that! Then, maybe just then, you'll be giving him some food for thought.

Mth's right.<p>And another angle on that is that your H may be having self-esteem problems. I know I did. <p>I knew that my behavior was morally wrong. I felt horribly depressed that I had gotten myself into that situation. To have your spouse constantly "preaching" only makes you feel worse. You're goal isn't to make him feel worse is it?<p>As hard as it is, you have to let him reach these conclusions on his own. You can't be the one to open his eyes and show him the right way to be.

Terrified,
I concur with other posts -- If you have read any of my posts, you know I can be Mr. Whinner!
I read here not long ago, which hit home for me --no matter how delicate we try to be, offering suggestions to our S can very easily turn into a judgemental thing from their perspective.
I have tried hard to focus on me & not try to fix my W and I believe it has helped us a lot.
I highly recommned you read James Dobson's book "Tough Love" -- it can help give you a perspective on Plan B kind of thing -- Strategy for recovery -- not necessarily giving up; sticking up for your self esteem & showing some independence, which many times helps our Parnter see more clearly what they may be giving up!
Hope & prayers are with you!
HH

So, what you're saying is to agree that it's over?

So, what you're saying is to agree that it's over?

NOOOOOOO!!!!<p>agree not to fight about it.<p>You can't win right now, so why battle? Just be the best you can be to him and let him see the best side of you. Is he seeing the best if you are constantly LB'ing and telling him how wrong he is?

It is not time now to throw in the towell.<p>Strong Plan A him and let him make his own mind up. In time he will come home. Make yourself a better person.<p>Good luck and stay strong.<p>Don't focus on it is over. Just take one day at a time. It does get better.<p>SLH

Terrified,
You don't have to agree it is over. You've told (preached to?) him that you believe it can be saved. Now he knows that is your belief, you don't have to hammer it. <p>If he is beginning a separation, part of that is that he doesn't want to talk to you, he doesn't want to believe your marriage can be saved. If your marriage can be saved and he doesn't want to do that, it makes him a "bad guy". It is better in WS thinking to say that there is no hope, takes the pressure off discontinuing the crummy behavior.<p>During my H's & my first separation, I yammered so much about saving the marriage and how I would change that he actually developed an aversion to both me and the house. Coming to the house, or seeing me made him feel ill. Not my intent of course, but if you keep at it long enough it is something that can happen. It took a lot of Plan A and time to get over that.<p>And, in reply to your other thread, it is very normal for a WS to put the BS at a distance. <p>Think of it this way, he may not be talking much, but then he isn't telling you lies. Lying is part of an affair, but lots of lies make the betrayal feel worse.<p>I think you should stay in Plan A, watch the lovebusters, especially self-righteous judgements, but no acting as a doormat! Also really work on creating your own schedule, so that maybe you aren't even at the house when he is. Good books for separations, along with TOUGH LOVE, are:<p>HOPE FOR THE SEPARATED by Chapman
LOVE BUSTING by Weiner-Davis
HOW TO GET YOUR LOVER BACK by Blase Harris<p>At the very least, go for walks, maybe start working out at a gym if you don't already, because it will help you deal with the physical stress of what you are going through.

I think what they're saying is to let him have his opinions/feelings right now. The man is still fogged in. Tell him you're sorry he feels that way, that you still have hopes for your marriage, then be done with the conversation. Make sense? I think changing your name would be a first step for you in recovering yourself. You need to recover yourself before recovering the marriage can begin. I know for me, when my H sees me being strong (I don't do it often!) he moves towards me. When he sees me as needy, he backs off. It's really hard to do, but a must in these situations.

Did we say to admit that it's over????? I don't think anyone said that.<p>We said to let him do what he feels he needs to do. Let him have the time and space to decide on his own what he wants. What you are doing now is not productive. In fact, it is counterproductive. You are only pushing him farther and farther away.You don't have to agree to anything, but you can certainly tell him that he's free to make his own choices, that you love him and want him to be happy no matter what that means for the marriage. You can keep your head held high, tell him you wish with all your heart that things didn't have to be this way but that you only want the marriage if he truly wants it himself. <p>Then you go about being a strong, independant woman who's making wonderful changes in herself. You strive to make yourself more desireable as a partner. It's up to him to see those changes and for you use every opportunity you get to show and be a loving, strong, desireable partner. If he doesn't see it, then you've made yourself a whole lot better for whatever and whomever lies in your future. That's the objective of Plan A. The objective of Plan A is not anything else.<p>This doesn't mean that you have to feel strong and independent inside, at least not right away. You'll feel like your dying, most likely. That's perfectly ok, just don't let him see you falling apart every other minute. He can see you cry....quietly, that you're sad, but definitely not that you're TERRIFIED!. That will make him want to run the other way. Weak is not attractive, strong and self assured is. Then you'll be doing the most effective thing you can do to save your marriage.

Thanks for all your replies. You're right and I know it. It's just that my H said today, "If you had an affair, I would have thrown you out. The fact that you didn't means you're guilty of not treating me well."<p>Wanted to let him know about MB...

His comment........ Doesn't mean your guilty of anything but being a loving wife, who can understand that her H is human and can make a mistake, that you're capable of being able to forgive and move on because you believe in all the things a marriage is and should be.<p>He's given you some insight here. He doesn't want to be the bad guy. He's hoping he can guilt you into being the bad guy for him, cry and scream and tell him to leave. Then he can say you made him go. Nope, doesn't work like that. He's telling you he doesn't see you as a strong woman. Now's the time to show him how strong you can be. Let the decision for deciding if the marriage continues or not rest solely on him. That's where it belongs.You just need to take care of your D and yourself and let him be for awhile.

Terri...
Independent, self assurred, positive, self-confident, happy are all things that in most cases make us attractive to other people -- our S included -- as was mentioned, "healing ourselves" should be a priority -- it has taken me about 8 months to understand this & I still do not have it all figured out. I keep repeating to myselve, focus on me!
I want to emphasize that the tough love thing is a strategy for "recovery" -- it can be effective to bring a couple back together -- I may have hedged my enthusiasm, because nothing is absolutley guaranteed -- Perhaps coming to grips with the fact that maybe nothing will work & that we have to pick up the pieces and move on can be a healthy outlook at times. Expect or plan for the worst and then hope for the best kind of thing. ??
Dobson sates that he has seen dramtic turn arounds in the WS attitudes with some of these strategies. He aslo talks about the things that made our S attracted to us in the beginning -- like the things I stated earlier -- good disposition is a start -- that to me is the essense of plan A -- this does not mean we become or continue to be doormats though.
There is something about human nature that we all tend to sometimes want or seek things that are not so easily attainable -- that is part of the perceived charge of cheating! -- I believe this indendependent kind of attitude can sometimes make a difference in how our WS respond back to us. I believe this is the re-occuring theme people are advising here.
I know if you are like me, some of those attributes I described earlier about our feelings may not be there -- if you act a certain way though, many times the acted out feelings become a reality! Being happy for example! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]
For example, I have recently come to understand that a part of my resentment towards my WW, I feel, is putting myself in the role of SElF PITTY -- when you step back and look at it -- what perosn is truely going to be attracted to us if we continually whaller in self pitty -- we don't want our S's back because they feel an obligation, it's better if we re-kindle some old fires -- think back to when you were dating -- some mystery, some independence helps stoke some fire!
Another day in the jungle here, so we'll survive, just hang in there!
HH

Hey T,<p>ARe you my SIL?? I got one over here that said almost the same thing. You know what confused him (stirred up his grey cells and got him thinking)? <p>I stopped trying to educate him and let him see that I was working for my marriage. Because he was such a great catch? No, I told him neither of us were a great catch but together we made a pretty good kid so there must be some good in each of us and that is what I was trying to recover. <p>Same message different angle. Oh yea, I got that 'well if Ws makes the BS mad enough, she'll kick me out'. Hm..... I think OW was fueling that one big time.<p>Anyway, don't preach show by example. Watch his actions. Waffling happens. Know this and be patient. <p>Your H is letting you know stuff. You have to learn how to be smart enough to dicipher the info from the babble. <p>Take Care,
L.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lexxxy:
<strong><p>I knew that my behavior was morally wrong. I felt horribly depressed that I had gotten myself into that situation. To have your spouse constantly "preaching" only makes you feel worse. You're goal isn't to make him feel worse is it?<p>As hard as it is, you have to let him reach these conclusions on his own. .</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I think this is the first time I have ever agreed with Lexxy but I have to agree with her this time. Preaching to the guilty about thier crimes only makes them DEFENSIVE rather than remorseful.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MelodyLane:
[QB]<p>I think this is the first time I have ever agreed with Lexxy but I have to agree with her this time. QB]<hr></blockquote>
Lexxy,
Sounds to me like you are making a little com back here! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] It seems I detect a little change in attitude -- not that you're getting soft or anything, but I sensed a caring, warmth thing I did not notice with some of your other posts!
I for one am proud of you!<p>Terri,
Hang in there! With your post about FIL, I think it is clear that you are beginning to see the best course of action is to boot the guy out. He may not be expecting that (Like the Cakeman!), and with that action, you may see a change of heart. If he crawls back, I would make him pay a little!
Get the Dobson book & bye the way, don't show it to him -- this is a secret strategy from the S! Dobson says so!
Dobson states something like, If you let the tiger out of the cage & he does not come back, he wasn't yours to begin with; but if he comes back then you know he is yours! Either way you bring some closure to your pain!
Prayers are with you,
HH

Terrified....<p>I can vouch for Dobson's "Tough Love" strategy working somewhat. My S kept threatening to leave and even packed on two occasions. Much to my dismay, I couldn't handle it when S wanted to go, and guess I begged S to stay. Finally, I said that while S knew I didn't want S to leave, I couldn't stop it if that is what S wanted, so S should do what S had to do. That was over a month ago, and I have not heard anything about leaving since then. While we continue to argue, and things are not very good in our relationship at the moment, I no longer feel like a victim; my self esteem has increased. Focusing on you is very good advice. Please take it. Hugs to you!

Terrified:
"If you had an affair, I would have thrown you out. The fact that you didn't means you're guilty of not treating me well."<p>The only response I have to this....is that your husband either always was/or/has morphed into a complete a**h*le.<p>These people are giving you great advice:
You cannot control his thoughts or behavior. Why don't you control your own. Move on. Which is different from moving away. Start living YOUR life. The clock didn't stop for you to get through this...your life is still spilling forward. This is the only life you get - live it.
LLL