Hello all, just a (no so) quick update and a question I&#8217;ve been tossing around of late: <p>Things go on pretty much as they have around here. Good days, bad days. She actually started reaching out to meet me when I reach to hold or kiss her. Every now and then she actually releases a hug after I do! I&#8217;ve been doing many things that I&#8217;ve never done and I know it confuses her. I sit and quilt with her for hours and I enjoy it! It&#8217;s as strange for me as it is she. To live without the depression and anger I&#8217;ve experienced for years is amazing!! I find that I derive pleasure from simple things such as freshening her coffee and the like. Things that never entered my mind in the 10+ years my depression went undiagnosed. <p>I think at times we may be becoming friends again. She&#8217;s started talking of plans for the house we&#8217;ve been meaning to get to and other things as if we were really a couple. Yet she&#8217;s not committed and I believe she talks to OM every day. All was going well until I had an anxiety attack last night and in the aftermath she asked me what I was feeling. Bad move to tell her. I went through my emotions, the pain, the guilt I feel the loss the devastation etc&#8230; It was just a moment that started it, we were cooking together and I realized that, at this moment, it&#8217;s not real and we&#8217;re just playing. The fact that I had allowed myself to think of it as a reality, even for a moment, was very devastating when the illusion failed.<p>By the end of the conversation, she was fully defensive (this is all my fault, I&#8217;m selfish and self-centered etc..) very distant and very angry. Great job Paul! The strange thing was she wouldn&#8217;t look at me. She even said &#8220;I don&#8217;t want to see your eyes right now&#8221;. I asked her why and she wouldn&#8217;t answer. She also said some days she thinks she can be in love with me again and others she doesn&#8217;t. Now my analytical side is having a field day with these things.<p>Anyway&#8230; I&#8217;m starting to see that plan B is imminent. I&#8217;m not sure how long I can deal with the confusion and pain the warm/cold warm/cold routine causes. I&#8217;m also not sure if Plan B is even an option for us. She dealt with my withdrawal for over 10 years!!! I can&#8217;t even imagine all the pain I&#8217;ve caused her in that time. I can&#8217;t imagine her frustration and anger that she finally was able to reach me after she gave up. In many respects I think her A was intended to put paid to our M. Yet she&#8217;s still here and although not committing, she&#8217;s not leaving either. After all she&#8217;s been through, that is significant! Through all this, she has more trust issues than I do. Rightfully so after all those years, through the daze I lived in, I see what my depression has done to her. She is afraid I&#8217;ll fall back into that abyss. She&#8217;s afraid that if she lets me back into her heart and tries again (she&#8217;s never been one to give less than 100%) it&#8217;ll kill her when I do slip away again. She is certain I will and I can&#8217;t promise myself never mind her that I won&#8217;t. I wish I could. <p>So I suppose I&#8217;m afraid that plan B will look simply like another withdrawal by me. I also know that she&#8217;ll see it as me not being as committed, as she was all those years. How do you compare 6 months of plan A (assuming I plan B at about that time) to 10+ years of dealing with a depressed H? She also still sees the sad and angry little man she lived with for years whenever she looks at me. She knows that it&#8217;s not who I am (thanks to meds) but she still sees him as the reality and who I am now as the illusionary partner she pinned her hopes on for years. She has some real good points IMHO. My Plan A amounts to really finding out who I am, since after all those years I&#8217;m really not sure. I suppose I&#8217;m looking for suggestions for a course of action. I&#8217;m not sure how to move on from here. Thanks for your time and I apologize for the book.<p>Paul

Paul,<p>I share your name as my middle name, but more than that, we share a VERY similar story. I've suffered (undiagnosed) depression off and on for my adult life. In the last year, my father's health failed, and he eventually died this past March. In that time, I've been in a deep pit of depression/despair. I died inside and removed myself from our M. I didn't meet a single EN (aside from $), and obviously W had a PA.<p>This woke me up to where I'd been for the last year and NOW I'm ready to fix ME. Problem is, she'd already given up on the M and on me....sound familiar?<p>I think that we might have a quite unique situation in that Plan B will essentially be an extension of the problem that got the two of us into this mess...lack of meeting ANY EN's. I plan on discussing this w/ Steve in my first session (sometime this week, I believe- haven't gotten confirmation). I'll be VERY interested what he has to say about it and I'll be sure to post it for you (and others in our unique situation).<p>I don't know how long you've been in plan A, but if I were to give ANY advice at this time (in light of the above), it'd be to continue w/ Plan A. Also, try to find a "better" way to communicate your feelings w/ WS. Obviously, she reacted poorly to whatever it is that you said when she asked. Often (and I'm probably more guilty of this than most) it can be nothing more than the tone of voice, or the choice of words that INSTANTLY sets the person on the defensive. Think about it, maybe discuss it w/ WS and see if there's a better approach for talking about your difficult feelings.<p>I hope this helps, and I'll keep you posted on what Steve says.<p>Kevin

Paul,
I second Kevco-. You don't end plan A w/ LB!. Stop analyzing W, keep doing plan A and if she gives you warm response ... hey it is a bonus [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] , enjoy it, cherish it and make it last. She is in and out of the fog ... be patience ... try to win her trust by sharing your feeling (not about A but to rebuild "new you").
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong> ... it&#8217;ll kill her when I do slip away again. She is certain I will and I can&#8217;t promise myself never mind her that I won&#8217;t. I wish I could. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Share it with her if she allows you too and ask her opinion what to do. It seems that W is a giver, by acting as skillfull taker you will fill in some LB$.<p>You are closer than you think by the fact that she starts to enjoy being with you. Do not push it and watch out for LB ... sometime SO did not tell you but you are LB'ing !!!. Enjoy what she gives you [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] and also fill in those LB$. You are competing with OM, you are competing with your own past (10+).

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by redhat:
<strong> ...You are competing with OM, you are competing with your own past (10+).</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
Fat finger !!!. [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img]
I meant [b] You are NOT competing with OM, you are competing with your own past (10+).[/QB]

Thanks for the replies. I&#8217;m nowhere close to ending Plan A&#8230; I&#8217;m not sure what I&#8217;ll end up doing or when. These are just some thoughts that crossed my mind. I share what I can, which most days isn&#8217;t much. I let her drive &#8220;us&#8221; type conversations since she sees anything relating to us as a push to get her off the fence. In many respects, the real frustration is communication at all. It&#8217;s her #2 EN and the one that OM meets (he lives 8 hours away). I have no chance most days of even beginning a conversation with W. She insists we never talked and never will be able to and is unwilling to even try. It makes it rough as this is an area I need serious work! <p>Kevco: Yes I know you&#8217;re story. I&#8217;ve been here about a month longer than you I guess. I posted on your initial post saying, essentially the same as you just did. J I wish you the best of luck! I imagine you&#8217;re dealing with a lot of the same resentments from W as I. Negative fun!!! The hardest part for me is dealing with the guilt of how much I&#8217;ve hurt her and dealing with it when she uses it as a weapon.<p>Redhat: Any affection is surely a pearl at this point! I take it as such and it gets me through the ugly days. W is surely a giver, part of the problem in actuality right now. Self loathing at giving for so very long and getting nothing in return. She harbors a great deal of anger towrards me, richly deserved IMHO The interesting thing is that I find I am also a giver. I never knew this. I&#8217;ve been angry since I was a small child. Anger being firmly in the domain of the taker makes it tough to be a giver! I have no intention of trying to compete. My M is in the balance but OM isn&#8217;t really the threat. My history and her fear of a repeat performance is. One can&#8217;t compete with a fantasy.