Plan A is over. I'm moving to Plan D. He told me this morning that it's over for him. He doesn't love me. Not "I love you, but I'm not "in love with you", just I DON'T LOVE YOU. I cannot hold out hope anymore. I've called an attorney and I'm meeting with him on Saturday at 1:00. I'm calling a realtor and we're going to sell our house. My H will not leave. He says I'm the one who screamed for a divorce the other night; why should he leave? I will NOT leave my children, and I can't live in the house with him this way, so this is the only other choice. He's being so incredibly cold. All he could say was "how are we going to pay the credit cards?" I said "well, I don't think I should have to pay for your boat, and I don't think I should have to continue to pay for the $800 bracelet that you bought her." He said, "fine, I can live with that, but everything else we will pay off right?" He charged up a good $1,500-$2,000 while he was gone, but I'm going to have to pay for that. He won't admit to spending anything else on OW, and I can't prove it. I don't even want to try; there's no fight left in me....I wanted so badly for him to stand up and fight for me and our M. Unfortunately, that's not who he's ever been. Thanks everyone. Please pray for me to have the strength to get through this in one piece.
MOM

{{{{{{{{{ MoM }}}}}}}}}<p>
I'm just so sorry. <p>Listen MoM,<p>It doesn't have to be Plan "D". I would think if you have a good solid Plan A under your belt, you should instead go to Plan B. I know you feel defeated and lost, but going straight for D and LBing all over the place is going to make any Plan so much harder. I know the hurt you're feeling ... it's incredibly all encompassing, you can't think straight, you can only throw your hands up and say "I give", you win.<p>But you came here to fight for your marriage and you believe and followed the Harley's principals, now is not the time to waiver and ditch it all. Follow thru with what Harley has found to be the best for the BS whether you Recover or D. A Plan B is in order I believe.<p>I feel so bad for you. I know this back and forth thing has beat you up good. Please take care of yourself.<p>Concerned,
Jo<p>[ November 07, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Oh, MOM! It truly is a day of disasters, isn't it.<p>I'm sorry to hear that you're out of hope.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> My H will not leave. He says I'm the one who screamed for a divorce the other night; why should he leave? <hr></blockquote><p>Is it the least bit possible that his words are a reaction to a LB? If so, maybe all hope isn't lost, just a dip in the ride? I pray that that's all, and I pray that God will give you BOTH strength and clarity.<p>You are loved!
Kev

{{{{MoM}}}}<p>I'm so sorry. I second the advice of Resilient. <p>We're here for you no matter what. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Just Hugzzzz and Prayers...<p>C A L I

MoM - I'm very sorry to hear about this. But I agree with Resilient and Faith1, try plan B before a divorce filing. From your synopsis, he's been in and out a couple times but it does not sound like a true plan B. He's been able to do as he pleases, and now by filing for divorce, you would let him off the hook, as far as the responsibility for the marriage goes.<p>One of the indicators for plan B is to protect yourself, that you just can't go on this way anymore. So even if you LBed by talking about divorce the other night, that make's it all the more convincing when you explain to him that plan B is necessary and there must be no contact, no more in-and-out.<p>You have to give this a shot - you have too much energy and time invested not to.<p>What kind of lawyer did you make an appointment with? It's probably a good idea to keep the appointment and get information on how to protect yourself financially, the rules on separation, support, and so forth in your state. But don't let him/her push you into filing right away. I talked to a lawyer last week about plan B, and fortunately, he was tuned in to the fact that divorce is a disaster and he seemed to readily understand plan A and plan B. But some other lawyers think there is no point in delaying. So don't let your lawyer get you pumped up to file right away.<p>- Tom

I would love to try Plan B again; in fact, I suggested that to my H. However, he feels that I should be the one to leave. What do you all think about that? SHOULD I leave and truly Plan B? How do I do that when I was gone once for a weekend, and I could not stand to be away from my kids. How do I plan b when he won't leave?<p>MOM

((((((MOM)))))) I dont know what to say to you to help but felt i needed to be here for you.
I agree with the others in that maybe it would be better to plan B than rush into a D.
Sometimes things are said in the heat of the moment and regretted later.
And as you so rightly said to me yesterday its not your H talking he's been abducted by aliens.
my thoughts are with you and i share your pain.
Love and hugs Liz

Myownme,<p>I'm very sorry to hear this. I know how you feel, though. I heard those exact words from my H. "I don't love you". It really stings.<p>I have to say, though, that since I have accepted that it's over, and the divorce has been filed, that I feel much better about the future. I guess I'm kind of relieved, or maybe I'm just in shock. Aside from the petty arguing, I have the upper hand now. He can't use his emotional arsenal on me anymore, because I have accepted and moved on. He tries to say things like, "since you're going to be like that, I want to get this over with fast so I never have to see your face again." I just say, "the feeling is mutual". As if I've done something wrong in our marriage. I know I'm not perfect, but at least I worked on our marriage. He gave nothing to it.<p>Anyway, this is going from, "I'm sorry for you", to "Oh, I'm so angry", so I won't mention my problems anymore.<p>I know you are hurting right now. You feel like you failed. You feel like it's all your fault, even though you know it isn't. You feel like, "how could God do this to me?", even though you know it isn't God at all. You feel like crawling in a hole and dying. I know these feelings all too well, but I can now say that it WILL get better. Just keep believing in God, and believe in yourself. Get strong, and only let your H see that strength. He will get a new respect for you. He may never come back, but he will respect you for your strength.<p>Try not to backlash, because, believe me, you will be tempted. Revenge is so sweet at this time, but once it's said and done, it will be very bitter.<p>Take care, and love yourself!
TIG

MoM - no, you should not be the one to leave under plan B. He's already left twice and that establishes the pattern on leaving. He might be saying that he wants you to leave as part of shifting the blame over to you. But it seems unlikely that he'll stick to that.<p>You should be there for your kids. How do they feel, when he goes back and forth for weeks at a time? How secure would they feel if you left, for more than a weekend, instead of your husband?<p>- Tom

MOM [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]
I really feel for you and the only good advice I have is do NOT move out of them house. Don't do a thing until you speak to your lawyer. And remember it's not over until the fat lady sings. I'm praying for you and sending many hugs

MOM,<p>I agree with the sentiment that you shouldn't move out, simply because it MIGHT have legal ramifications in regard to the house and the kids. Be sure to ask the lawyer about that when you consult. I know that in some places, the spouse who moves out hurts their chances of keeping the house or getting custody of the kids, protect YOU!<p>You are in my prayers.
K

Dear MOM,<p>I am very sorry to hear of your latest developments.<p>I think you should see a lawyer, just to check out your rights if for no other reason.<p>Next, don't move out. That really would be a bad move legally.<p>Try to take care of yourself...it is so very painful and that makes it hard. Give yourself hugs....you deserve it for trying to keep your marriage together. Don't let this situation destroy your health. Remember to eat, sleep and get some exercise....now I sound like YOUR Mom [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] !! Just try to take care of yourself. I'll be praying for you. Pat

Myownme,<p>Wrong, wrong, wrong. Something is not right here.<p>You two are playing a big game of chicken.<p>He says he wants a D but won't do anything about it. <p>You say you don't want a D but you're filing. <p>All because you said the word during a big LB session. Now you think you have to stick to it????<p>A game of chicken. Who's going to blink first?<p>Do something else. Take time-out.<p>Spend time away from him somehow and cool off. Decide what to do next week.<p>If you just need to avoid him, do it. <p>Take the kids out to breakfast. Then take them out to dinner (after work). Then lock yourself in the bathroom and take a private bath (with a glass of wine!). Then go off to your room (by yourself) and curl up with a good book, or T.V., or cat, or just sleep.<p>Like Jo says, you won't feel good about this if it goes down this way. Find yourself again before you proceed. Please.<p>Not intended to offend, but....<p>Jeffers

THANK YOU ALL FOR THE GREAT ADVICE. I've been home since yesterday morning, doing a lot of thinking and having a lot of good talks with my H.<p>We have decided to sell our house and move to separate apartments (less than a mile apart). We need to do this as neither of us can afford the house while supporting any other type of household. We are NOT, however, getting a divorce right away!!! My H still says he has no hope of us ever reconciling, but I can still hope and not tell him!<p>Yesterday we sat our kids down and talked to them. THEY already knew it was long past time for us to separate (all the fights, all the animosity, etc.). My H is finally getting to the place where he understands that he is not emotionally healthy (neither of us are). While both of us are in this unhealthy emotional state, it is not possible for us to work properly on our marriage. My H has denied needing help for a very long time. He now realizes and admitted to our kids, that he and I have been "limping" through this marriage for a very long time.<p>He has said that he looks forward to his counseling now, when at first, he only went because of me. He still maintains that right now, he loves me, but does not feel our marriage will ever work, does not feel that he can ever be "in love" with me again. I think it's a result of all the angry, yukky times we've had recently, but only time apart, counseling for each of us, and getting healthy will tell.<p>So am I convinced that my M is over? Nope. Am I ready to get healthy and do I feel at this time, I can't get healthy living with my H? Yes.<p>So, I will be here gaining support and trying to continue to give it. I thank you all so much and ask for your prayers for strength to handle whatever is coming next for me in my life.<p>MOM [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>This is excellent new MOM!!! I am happy you took a breather, listened to Jeffers advice and proacted instead of reacted.<p>I think this is the best place for you and your H while you sort things out. I really hope your H is serious about the counseling. I think you will notice a huge difference if he follows through with actions and goes to counseling to work on HIM.<p>My H finally started his individual counseling in early July (one of the things I needed from him before trying to go forward). What was left of the EA finally ended 2 weeks/sessions later, and the no contact letter 6 weeks after that.<p>THEN the marriage counseling began, and our true start on the path to recovery.<p>Looking back in hindsight, I know now that if my H didn't get the counseling he needed BEFORE we started marriage counseling and BEFORE we re-committed to ourselves, we would have gotten NOWHERE and fast. Tried that before actually, got nowhere - fast... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>My H still needs alot more counseling. He's actually getting it two-fold now, both in individual and in marital counseling. I can't tell you how much it has helped both him and me. I've been in individual counseling throughout all this, and that has helped me as well.<p>This may be a blessing in disguise MOM. Just treat it like that, k? Good luck to you. Keep up the good plan A and no LBing during this time. I don't think you should plan B right now, not unless you found out something horrendous (like he got back with OW - then plan B to the fullest extent).<p>Good luck MOM. I am happy you are having such good talks with your H. That is the beginning...
HbH<p>[ November 09, 2001: Message edited by: hurtbyhubby ]</p>

How in the world do you all afford counseling. I talked with a counselor twice in person and that cost over $400. I also talked to Steve once and that cost $120. I can't afford that. I know I could use it...so could my kids. But how do you pay for it?

I have insurance that covers it now, although at one point, I dished out over $600 when I could not find a counselor within my insurance that could take us short of a 4-week wait.<p>That was back in May. Waste of $$ cuz' my H wasn't ready and was just going through the motions... I was in a rush cuz' his A was only EA at the time.<p>Now, if I could have gotten a counselor in April... Maybe things would have been different.<p>Also paid $240 so far to talk with the Harley's. That was worth the money.<p>I'm an engineer so I make pretty good $$, otherwise, I don't know how I would have paid the $840 previously. Tried to get free counseling, or gone more into debt I guess...<p>HbH