There’s so many little facets of my W’s situation that I find it hard to cover them all. But this is one has an ironic twist that I feel like I should share….<p>So my W has a girlfriend. This girlfriend and her go back a long, long way – before we’d met. Now this particular girlfriend’s led a really screwed up personal life. She’s had probably 30 partners, has been divorced, has a D, and recently, has been involved with 2 different guys at the same time – sound familiar?? Now guy #1 is a really nice guy – has treated her well and all. Guy #2 has been something of a jerk, but he’s been kind of “more attractive” to her – been more gushy and such. It came to a point where she’d been with G1, but decided to leave him for G2. She’d invented reasons in her mind to dislike G1 and like G2. In fact, she’s claims that her “heart” is with G2, that she wanted to marry him. Now G1 was very depressed and sad, and didn’t really give this woman a reason to desire him while she was with G2. When G1 finally decided to Plan B her in a sense, cut off contact, etc, she now suddenly comes to her senses – she realizes that she really loves G1 and that she wants to break it off with G2.<p>The ironic twist is that my WS has been this woman’s sounding board for a long time. My W has told her that G1 treats her well and that if it were her choice, she’d pick G1. In so many ways, I’m G1 for my W – her own heart is with the OM, but her head is with me. I, unlike G1, instead of being depressed lately, have been working on myself, acting confidently, etc. I just find it so ironic. After she talked with her girlfriend, we talked about her situation – I very subtly made a couple of points from it too – no LB.<p>I also know that this girlfriend’s encouraged my W to be with the OM. She thinks he’s more exciting, etc. And I think my W’s allowed herself to do like her friend – invent reasons where they suit her needs. And sadly in some ways, with her girlfriend’s situation, G1 never really “looked all that bad” to her whereas with my W, she does look at me as being “bad” (from the fog) and conveys that to her girlfriend, who feeds it back to her, amplified, “why are you still with him if he treats you so badly?”<p>So on an intellectual level, my W must know what’s going on here. I wonder if we ever reach a point where Plan B is required in our relationship, will my W be more callous, knowing about her girlfriend’s plight, maybe viewing it as a game? All conjecture right now – Plan A is in full swing. She seems to be slowly becoming more receptive to me, more willing to use her head. In fact on Monday evening, she came home and admitted she was excited to work on “us” – called her mom & dad with enthusiasm for the first time in 2 months. But things change daily – the fog ebbs and flows. She’s still talking about leaving, but she’s also talking about Christmas and going out with me & my friends and actually having a joint counseling session!!, etc. So she sees us together in the future, at least short-term.<p>But we still have an emotional divide between us. And affection and sex pretty much remain non-existent. I can’t help but feel like if we could get into that territory, we might make some more progress – more opportunity for love points. But I know that I can’t push it. At the same time, I know she wants it – at least I hope she does. My W claims that women can just “turn it off” (i.e. sex drive) – ladies? Comments? Are there subtle ways to tantalize her without coming on too strong?<p>Anyway, Plan A and my individual therapy sessions seem to be jiving well. I’ve got some homework this weekend!

JR,<p>I TOTALLY hear you when it comes to them being able to see OTHER PEOPLE'S problems and work through them logically and rationally; even when the parallels are so obvious it's almost funny (but not quite).<p>My WS has talked about the age differences of some of her friends' relationships, yet OM is 11 years her junior (that's 1/3 of our lives!!). She talks about how some of the problem parents (she's a teacher) won't listen to reason and they can't understand that they made a comittment to becoming parents (like the reason that SHE won't listen to and her comittment to be married). She was complaining a week ago or so about being late somewhere because she doesn't like to fail to meet her comittments - all I had to do was give her a look half way through the sentence and she never finished it [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] - that was truly comical.<p>Wierd stuff, this FOG.<p>Kev

J.R.
Well, I'd forget about sex for awhile, but the affection thing isn't too hard. It doesn't have to be that "touchy-feely" stuff all the time. Think of signs of affection you get from people who like you. Think of the "signs" of affection you had for each other when you began to date<p>laughter and appreciating a joke together
smiling in welcome
listening, asking questions and really listening to responses.
dressing just a tad nicer
complimenting something small.."color of that dress looks good with your eyes"
Sharing something..book, music, something you know they would like
ask her opinion on something and then do it...
be mildly flirtatious
these are tiny little steps you probably took at the beginning of the realtionship...try some again before you work up to the full blown physical hugs and kisses.<p>Just a lady's point of view
T

YES!!! J.R.<p>It is very ironic. Very similar thing here. She is constantly giving this kind of relationship advise in her chat room. I'm the nice guy, and her A was with a bad boy(she even calls him "the jerk"). She tells them to go to the one who treats you right. To bad that she didn't follow her own advise. Now, because of that, I have a long road to travel over the next year in trying to rebuild our marriage.<p>In addition to being ironic, it SUCKS!

Yes, I agree to all of the above -- been trying to do these kinds of things. The most difficult part has been in trying to make it seem natural -- not like I'm trying to suddenly "win her over". A few weeks ago, she'd rebuff me pretty hard. Now she's much more willing to accept them, so I'm more and more willing to give them. That to me is a very good sign.<p>Today we were joking that "all men are pigs" when I made some comment about her looks -- very good natured exchange -- hmm, this and a couple of other things makes me wonder if things with OM are souring a bit. I'm not even going to worry about that -- Plan A is for me, Plan A is for me, Plan A is for me...<p>I'd love nothing more than to start dating her again in a sense. The thought is quite exciting actually. I feel like I need to get to a point where I'm "treating her like a princess" (as she's put it), but can't do it all at once or I come across as smothering -- so it's all very slow. That's just fine by me, especially if I believe we're making progress.