Hi there. I will try to be brief, but this may be a little long. I have been lurking here since July when d-day occurred for me. <p>I have known my wife for 19 years, been married for 12 and have 3 beautiful children (9, 7, and 3). In March my wife told me she was not happy and not been for quite some time. I was shocked. We never fight or argue and were High School sweethearts. Everyone says what a perfect coupld we are. She said it started 3 or 4 years ago when I was working a lot and hardly spending time not working, even when I was home. We would have minor arguments about it, things would get better and then go back to the way they were. Finally, she said, she didn't say anything which I then assumed that she accepted how my work schedule was. When we talked in March I did a complete 180. No more work at home, was home between 5 & 5:30 everyday (and still am), bring here flowers once a week. <p>In March I asked if there was someone else and was told no. Just that she is not happy and feels like something is missing.<p>On July 6, my world fell apart. She told me she still loves me and care about me, but she is not "in love" with me. I asked if there was someone else and was devastated to hear her say "yes". It has been "serious" since March. I asked if there was sexual relations and she said she would not answer that which immediately gave me my answer. I immediately forgave her right then and there. I told her how much I love her and would do anything to get her back. I have be "Plan Aing" ever since to no avail.<p>She communicates via e-mail and voice mail. She just recently told her mother and two of her sisters. They are totally on my side and cannot believe she is doing this. She would be the last person on this earth that we would ever think would do this.<p>We are currently trying a trial separation by switching off staying at her mother's house. The kids don't know. We keep making excuses about late work nights, etc. when the other one is not here. This just started on 11/3.<p>Here's where I need the advice. She is using this separation as an opportunity to see him more instead of thinking about our situation and how we can fix it. She will not go to counseling. Today she left at 3:15 to go to her mother's, but as of 10:30PM she is still not there. She told her mother that she was going to be going to dinner with the kids and I (a lie) and then would be going out (guess with who).<p>I am beside myself. Do I say something about the lying when she comes home tomorrow or would that be LBing? Her mother is extremely upset and most likely will say something about being used.<p>Her mother and sisters are behind me 100% and do not approve at all about what she is doing. They have been just wonderful to me.<p>Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I still love her with al my heart and would do anything to get her back. Sorry for the long post.<p>DD

Hi DD, <p>As you can see your situation has been repeated many times. The info and support here cna help. Right now there is not much you can do for your W. You can do a lot for yourself and your family. <p>That is where your focus should be. This is easier said than done. For many the 1st 4 months are hard. During this time, many try to fix the WS. Most are not successful. <p>Read up on plan A and B. Take a look at the his needs/her needs book. The A with the W as the WS may have a different set of circumstances from when the H is the WS. But the pain devastation is pretty much the same. <p>If you can, talk with Steve or Jennifer. They are good and can give you guidelines. What your wife did was a selfish act. There is no excuse that would condone her acts then and now. However, your actions are what you can control and if you are willing to forgive and work with your W, then it will be for her benefit. <p>You will hear some tough stuff. As hard as it is, give it an ear and work with what you know and at the pace you are able to deal with. Never push yourself more than necessary. You may not be able to speed up the recovery but you can assist on keeping it moving. <p>Take Care,
L.

DD,<p>This is not a good turn of events. As you know, your wife is taking advantage of your cooperating in a "trial seperation". My take is that she has broken the terms of the separation. It appears that the separation is not working because it give your wife more free time with OM and it gives you fewer chances to Plan A her.<p>Remember that radical honesty the one of the corner stones of the MB principles.<p>My suggestion is that you tell her that you know what she is up to and that the separation is off. This will allow you to remain in your house. She will then need to decide if she is staying or leaving. Remember that as long as she is living in the house and you are around, you are meeting some of her ENs. So she now has both you and OM to meet her needs. She has yet to see what life is like without you. If she chooses to leave, I would suggest that you move on to Plan B. Some here may say that it is too soon for this, but you have been in Plan A for a few months and things seem to be getting worse. My personal belief is that Plan A should be a short term bridge in which one negotiates the end of the affair and working on the marriage. If that does not work, it is time for Plan B.<p>My 2 cents<p>Z

Welcome to the forums DevD.<p>Since you've been lurking since the summer, then you know that your W is sitting on the fence while eating her cake. Arranging the trial separation has given her a nice cushy seat to lounge on too. Unfortunately, it works that way most of the time.<p>You need to create some boundaries to protect yourself, and your children. When you choose to implement them, is up to you. You'll know when you're ready to make those changes.<p>If you are certain that your plan A efforts have been successful - meaning that YOU have changed in the areas you know needed changing - then it's time to think about plan B.<p>Plan B for you would basically be giving what your W will take as an ultimatum (which in essence, it is). She can decide whether or not she wants to be married or not. If she's still not sure, then you can set up the boundaries so that she can see what divorced life would really be with you. If your plan A was well done, then she'll miss the EN's you've been filling. Remember, that a plan B letter is VITALLY important in order for her to understand that your reactions (to her actions of having the A) is in order to preserve the love you have for her. Again, you will know when it is time for you to take this step.<p>One word of caution: be careful with what details you share with your W's family. Speaking from experience, it can all come back to haunt you later should you go into recovery. Yes, it is great that you have them as your support group to help you in your MB efforts... but your W also needs support. My suggestion is to have them read up on the MB concepts (if they haven't already) so that they can help you in your recovery efforts.<p>Keep on posting with any vents or questions. We're all here to help each other through this.<p>Take care,
Karen

Hi DD,
I know that this is a very difficult time for you. I'm so glad you decided to finally post. Come here to share and to vent you will find a great support system.
I agree with all the responses you received but particularly Zorweb's reply. You say that you have been Plan A'ing since d-day and now you are doing this trial separation thing. Your W now has the best of both worlds she has more time to spent with OM. I know you want your W and your M back but do not allow her to use you as a doormat in the process. Remember you are still meeting some of her EN's maybe you should consider Plan B or at least set a plan for yourself and let your W know what you are doing. Are you in counseling? You said that your W refuses to go but you can still go for yourself. Remember if you are in Plan A that is about you. To be a better person whether M works or not.
Good luck to you DD please keep us updated.
C

Thanks for the quick replies. She is supposed to be home later today, we eat dinner with the kids - then I tell them I have to go into work tonight and I go back to the m-in-law. I'm taking each day as it comes - for the kids sake. The only thing about PLan B that scares me is seeing the kids. I did nothing wrong yet, if I begin Plan B at some point, am I expected to leave my home and everything I built? At least now with the trial separation she is being fair about us splitting time away. My in-laws don't understand how I can forgive her for this but say they support me. I have shown them info off this site so they are aware of the Basic concepts, etc. I also think I may call to talk to Steve just to talk to someone other than family and to see if what I am doing is correct.<p>DD

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Devastated Dad:
<strong> if I begin Plan B at some point, am I expected to leave my home and everything I built? </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hi, DD<p>If you have been lurking for as long as you say, then you should already have some pretty good ideas as to what needs to be done. It's pretty clear from all you have written, that Plan B is coming soon. Zorweb has some great advice (all did, but I had the same thoughts as she, so!). All who responded to you have BeenThere.... Take their advice.<p>My only point to add to you is to say that if you go to Plan B, DO NOT MOVE OUT. Make her move out. That will make her face life in an uncertain world, with lots of changes around her.
If she chooses to move in with her family, that is her choice, and not so good for seeing OM. If she can move in with OM, well, then the "rubber will meet the road" - so to speak. Their A will take a new turn, and the 24/7 aspect of being together, instead of "illicit" runaways will shine the light of truth and ordinariness onto them, taking away a lot of the frenzy and furvor that makes A's so special and different.<p>Whatever you choose, feel free to come here and post and ask for help. We've all been....and done...(in varying degrees) and a wealth of knowledge is based here. I don't know how I would've made it this far without all these people.<p>God Bless,
Lupo

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Devastated Dad:
<strong>Thanks for the quick replies. She is supposed to be home later today, we eat dinner with the kids - then I tell them I have to go into work tonight and I go back to the m-in-law. I'm taking each day as it comes - for the kids sake. The only thing about PLan B that scares me is seeing the kids. I did nothing wrong yet, if I begin Plan B at some point, am I expected to leave my home and everything I builtDD</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Nononono! YOU don't leave! You have done nothing wrong! You should not have to leave your own home because she is having an affair! Like Zorweb said, the seperation is OFF and you are going nowhere. Quit going to your mother-n-laws and stay home - effective NOW! You go into plan B when SHE leaves.

Not only do you stay, but the KIDS stay with you. Again, she is the one who is having the affair, so it is not right that you or the kids should be uprooted from your home. If she wants to continue the "seperation" then SHE can leave and you go into Plan B.

Hi dad- I have been married 15 yrs and went thru a similar scene with my H this past yr. The first 4 months were really rough! H refused to end the A and said he wasnt in love with me anymore, he was in love with OW.I found this all out on the morning of Valentines Day last year. He said he figured our marriage was 'over in his head.' I then asked him to move out since he didnt want to end the A which he did for 2 mo- he said he was staying with friends but really he was staying at OW's condo. ( OW was a single coworker to H who was pressuring him to divorce me and live with her) He lied to me many times when he would come see the kids during this time about where he was and what he was doing. I learned to check his cell phone bills and the daily log on his cell phone to catch him lying to me about contact continuing with OW. Many times he tried to break it off with OW but would go back to her. H's affair had a strong emotional component as well as physical- this is the hardest type of A to break up and you will need the utmost patience and advice for the next few months to stand it. By all means read Harley's book Surviving
An Affair right away. Also I recommend books written by Emily Brown about affairs she is an expert counselor on this type of affair. It is very TYPICAL that your W claims to have fallen out of love with you and that she is using your separation to further her time with OM.This does NOT mean she will not regain her love again for you in the future and that your marriage cant be saved. This is typical wandering spouse behavior- as is re-writing your entire marital history to make it seem worse than it was and refusing counseling. My H did all of those things and then some! My H even went so far as to file for divorce on me at the urging of OW. However I told him thruout this whole ordeal that divorce is wrong, its against what we're teaching our 3 kids at church, I will never agree to an easy divorce and will contest it if it comes to that. My H brought up divorce many times which would REALLY upset me- I finally learned to tell him its wrong, I dont agree with it and wont discuss it further. This limited the emotional pain I would get from when he brought it up every wk for about a month. I told my H that if he chose to divorce me against my will I would take the kids and raise them somewhere else and make a whole new life for myself. THAT made him face up to reality. Good luck- we are happily reconciling now and its been a long road but one worth staying on.H and I are back in love and OW took a job transfer to another state. lifeismessy

The best part is that she says he has nothing to do with our issues. HELLO! She may not be happy, for reasons I cannot figure out yet, but until she stops seeing him we cannot begin to work on the issues, right? Or am I missing something? How can she begin to show anything for me if she has given her heart to him.

DD - that abbreviates your name and "double ditto" for Zorweb's reply.<p>End this "separation" charade now.<p>No more lying to your kids. DO NOT leave them again to enable your W's decisions.<p>Simply tell your W that you will no longer play the "separation" game. If she wants a separation, she has to do it on her own.<p>DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOME OR YOUR KIDS!!!<p>Got it?<p>Try your best to not LB. Give her all the rope she wants. Make every reply to her an "it's your decision, dear" response.<p>Refer to "WAT's Quick Start Guidelines" on the Just Found Out board. DO NOT fall into the trap of believing you can influence the course of the affair.<p>WAT

Devasted Dad, <p>I think i must be your twin. My story is almost identical to your. My kids are (10-6-3). DDay was July 28, W says its over with OM but will NOT agree to no-contact. She says she loves me, but is in-love with him. I don't believe it's over though. <p>We didn't seperate but probably should have in the start. Fortunately this OM moved away just before i found out and is 4 hours away. He has a good job there and my wife is tied to her business here, so they both have alot of things tieing them somewhere else. My "W"'s OM is 22 years older than her with is hurtful to me.He is old enough to be her dad or mine ! <p>I don't have any answers..I have been doing Plan A since the start, but it's gotten mixed reviews from her. She knows i have changed. She sees them. She even asked me last week if i don't get tired of being a "good-guy". I told her that she wasn't a bad-guy, but that i didn't get tired of it. It's what I WANT TO DO. <p>This weekend she tells me that she has resentment towards me because i found out about her "A" and that i am the one that took him away from her. I told her i didn't take anything, I asked her to make a choice...i didn't ask her to choose me. She is so full of guilt that she can't even look at me when she talks about this. She tries to blame everyone but her. This is after 16 weeks. <p>Good luck on your quest from hell......

devastated Dad,<p>I have been where your W is, altho, I was only involved with one OM. And I too thought I would never love my H again like I loved the OM. But when I finally full commited to seeing if my marriage could be saved, and without the OM lurking in the background waiting to pick up the pieces, I discovered that my marriage could be saved and that my H was the man who truly loved me.<p>It has been 7 months since I have had any contact with the OM. Some days it is hard, but I know that I must put all my effort into my marriage. It has to fail or succeed on it's own merits. And so far, I find that I'm loving my H more and more each day. But there are times when doubt creeps into my mind and I wonder if I made a mistake. But it is well worth all the effort it takes.
But I know that while I was still in the fog, nothing my H did was right or caused me to think anything other than our marriage was over. And I too was like your W, the last person anyone would ever suspect of having an A.<p>If you decide that you must plan B, please don't leave your house or your children. One of the things that helped me out of the fog was leaving home. I had to think of how much it would cost me to support myself and I discovered a few things about the OM that I didn't like. It caused reality to begin to set in. or at least begin to set in. So please hold your ground and always remind yourself that you did not cause her to seek an A, no matter what was happening at home.
if I can help shed any light on anything, please ask me.
God bless.
Debbie

Dear DLM, <p>Thanks for being honest about this !! Did you have any children involved ? How long was your "A" ? How did you finally come out of the fog to work on your "M". My wife keeps saying that she doesn't know what she wants. She obviously thinks she wants him...she calls him at least once everday alot of times 2-3 times a day. <p>How long were you out of the house before you changed your mind ? Did OM respect your choice or did he try to contact you after you said no ? <p>Thanks for any further update and information !!

sad dad,<p>my children are grown, but my daughter was pregnant and it very much effected her. My A lasted 9 months and I loved the OM very much.
He met all the needs my H had been neglecting for years. I moved in with OM for one week. Not long enough to know anything, but enough for God to get my attention. It was during this week with the OM, that as we talked I realized that he wasn't going to meet my need for finanical support. I thought I could handle that, but what I missed so much was my daughter and granddaughter. I truly thought I would never feel that kind of love my H deserved again. And frankly, during that time I didn't care. That is something that the BS's don't seem to get on here.
during the time of the A or while the WS is figuring things out, we don't really care how you feel. We are in a very selfish mode and usually have justified it in our minds, and so we don't care what you think or how hurt you are.<p>while I did come back home, the A ended for only a about 2 weeks when I ran into the OM. We talked things over and the A started up again.
When I knew the he (OM) was waiting for me, but wouldn't press me for any answers, well, it just seems liked he must love me more. I can say one thing, I never called or went to visit him while my H was home. The OM would come by my work when I got off and we would talk. Or I would go over to his house on my days off while my H was working. I believe now that God was working on my conscious and i was beginning to feel guilty about the whole thing. But because I truly loved the OM, I was willing to try to overlook the guilty feelings.<p>I did not come out of the fog and end things, but I chose to end things first. I too was struggling to make heads or tails of things. We had been married for almost 26 years by this time and I felt that I owed it to my H to give our marriage one more whole hearted attempted to be saved. And I knew that I couldn't do that while I was still involved with the OM. So after much thought and lots of talking with my sister, I sent the OM a no contact letter. It didn't follow the suggestions here. It simply told him how much I loved him and how I felt that I would always love him, but I could not keep saying I would work on my marriage as long as he was in the background waiting for me. So for me to truly work on my marriage to see if it could work, I must let him go on with his life without me.<p>I will tell you I spent lots of time crying and I came on here sharing some things. I always tried to see my H in a very positive light. But it took months for me to really believe what I wrote on here. And now I find that I do love my H. And I am very lucky he stood by me. Do I miss the OM? Yes, very much. Sometimes I feel like a piece of me is missing, but then I realize that was a piece I should never have given away. So it is something I must do without and allow my H to fill that spot, which he does when I allow him.<p>The road is hard for both of us. My H and I are working on building new memories and building a better relationship. I am working on letting the memories of the OM fade. Fortunately, the OM respected my wishes and has never contacted me. He moved from this area, so we would not accidently run into each other. We both knew that if that happened again, the running into each other, the A would start up again. Just the other day, my H and I drove by the house where I moved with the OM. My H had to see for himself that the OM was gone. While it was hard for me, it was necessary and something my H deserved to know.<p>If you have any other specific questions, please ask. When I go back and look over my story here, I can see it changing as I change and grow. But I am so thankful that God did not give up on me and that my H loves me with unconditional love.<p>Debbie

Thanks again DLM, <p>I think you and my WS are very similiar. How long did your affair go on before it was un-covered. Her's went on for 4 months and then her father found out....then it was 7 more months before i found out. It's been a total of 15-16 months now and still going on. That's the hard part...how do i get her to stop it without going to plan "B" ? <p>She was telling me the truth about talking to him, now she is saying that it's over, but still calls him daily. The hard part is when we are together she tries to act like everything is A-Okay with us. We talk nicely, do nice things for each other, etc.....That's the hard part. <p>I think she won't make a choice and this guy will wait forever on her...He is 55 she is 35, he has daughters older than her. He is alone in another city now 4 hours away from us. She won't go to him though....her job is here and she won't leave. She says he won't come back for her because of his work...so i am not sure what that leaves for them. <p>What advise can you give me about plan "B" DLM ? I know it's risky and i want to give my marriage every chance to survive...i owe that to me and to my kids. Not many people know of her affair, but i don't think it would matter if they did !!

Sad Daddy & DLM (and everyone)- thanks so much for your input. She is supposed to be the one out this week anyway beginning Wed - Fri so I am going to see how that goes, but I can tell you that I will not leave my kids (or her for that matter). After all this I cannot believe that I am still here...that's what I keep telling her...I am still here...I love her so much and I am still waiting to be woken up from this nightmare.<p>SD...I am so sorry that we are twins. I wouldn't wish this pain on my worst enemy - well, maybe the OM. Gotta laugh a little.<p>DLM...she tells me that she sees how I have changed but says her feelings have not changed and she doesn't have feelings for me to make a marriage work. I just don't get it. HOw canyou throw away 19 years (know each other 19, married 12). Also, she will not go for counseling - says it won't help. Claims OM has nothing to do with our issues. I send letters, cards and e-cards that get read and put on my dresser but get no response.<p>Is there anything else I can be doing? I just feel so helpless.<p>DD

Sad dad and DD,<p>I'm not sure I have anything that will help. I can only relate what I have been thru and what helped me. I know that the biggest factor in all this was my relationship to God. I have been a Christian a very long time, but drifted away from being honest and open. It just didn't seem to work. Now I realize that most of the emotional needs weren't being met. But it was because of the relationship my H and I have with God that our marriage is still intact today. My H got his very close friends together and they prayed daily for me and our marriage. They prayed that my eyes would be opened to what I was doing. It took 6 months for me to finally be willing to truthfully give my marriage another chance.<p>Sad Dad, my A was discovered after 3 months. My H was gone on a business trip for 10 days. While he was gone the OM and I went away on a mini-vacation. When my H got home and was all happy to see me, I was very cold and callous towards him. In fact, I felt completely dead inside where my H was concerned. My H knew that I had spent some time with the OM, so my H just flat out asked me if I was f****** around with OM.
And I truthfully answered him yes. Then without any feelings on my part, I watched my H collapse to the floor and cry. I felt nothing, absolutely nothing as I stepped over him to go take a shower.
In my mind, I felt completely justified in my actions. I had spent years and years of being neglected and I had finally foud someone who enjoyed my company, so I couldn't or wouldn't allow myself to see anything wrong with it. Besides, I wasn't "in love" with my H anymore. I was "in love" with the OM.<p>And I was like your W in that when my H and I were in public I acted like nothing much was wrong. I even went to counseling, but I just couldn't let go of the OM. My H used a book called, "Winning your Wife back before it's too late," by Gary SMalley before we heard of this site. And little by little my H began to meet my needs again. But it has taken me quite a while to believe that he will continue to meet them.
And it is very hard for him. He has to work very hard to remember and then to act.<p>As for Plan B, we never went there. This is just from my perspective during the time I was undecided, but if my H had decided he didn't want to see me anymore, I would have decided in favor of the OM. Many don't want to see this as some kind of contest, but in reality we do tend to compare the two. And it can be very confusing having two men love you at the same time. No matter what is right or wrong, you look to see who loves you the most. And the BS has a history to overcome, no matter what anyone wants to think.
It was those bad times that stood out most, not all the good ones, and as we all know there are usually more good times than bad, but if the EN's aren't being met, well, everything else is forgotten. With the OM, there isn't the history, and all the EN's are being met, so he has the advantage at the moment. That's just a fact of an A. Everything with the OP is exciting. He seems to understand everything, is there to pick up the pieces and not demanding. So one would wonder how he can lose, but your past history also plays a part. Go back the to good memories.
The things that she loved to start with. What you two did together that helped fill up her love bank.
One thing my H did during the whole time I was having an A and he knew was to ask me what he had done that made me so unhappy. And he would tell me that he was praying for me. That would make me so mad, but as the months passed I began to tell him specifics of the things that I needed.<p>As for plan B, you have to decide if that is what you need to do in order for your love for her to survive. But also, will it push her more towards him. My H and I talked about me being gone a week. Oh I know that is not long by the standards here, but my H and I knew that the longer I was gone the less likely I would come home. In fact, I knew that if I could have stayed gone for three weeks, I would never have come back home. And my H knew it too. He got a prayer vigil going as soon as I left home and someone was praying for me around the clock the whole time I was gone. And God answered his prayers.<p>Well, I have run on and on, but if you gleam one bit of information that you find useful, then I'm glad to help. My prayers are with your families and especially with you as you try to hang on to the love you have for your spouses.<p>God bless,
Debbie

DD,
You are getting a lot of great advice here. And, like has been previously mentioned, if you have been lurking and reading for several months you should have lots of info as to how to proceed. <p>Knowing what you should do next and doing it are very different. I understand your complete devastation and heartache over what your wife has done. But, you cannot change her mind by begging, pleading and knashing of teeth. Sending cards, letters, e-mails with no response is not helping. Allowing her the freedom of this "sham seperation" is not helping. Telling her over and over how much you love and forgive her is not helping. If anything, these actions are making you look desperate, needy, clingy and making her want to RUN TO THE HILLS!<p>She has not had to face the reality of what life without you would be like. I think it is time for you to introduce her to her new life.<p>PLAN B! Tell her you will not support her continued involvment with OM. You love her enough to let her go. You did not make her marry you and you cannot make her stay married to you. (Read James Dobson's book on affairs).
Tell her since she is obviously unwilling to give up OM and work on the marriage or even attend counseling to determine if there is something to save, that you must protect yourself and your children from further harm.
She is to leave the home as of xx date. You will allow her to have contact with the children, but you will not stand by and play the role of husband while she is not starring in the performance.
Make a date. Stick with it. It will be the hardest thing you have ever done, but it might (MIGHT) save your marriage. It might not. But, then you will be better armed for your new future.<p>Best,
M