I haven't posted here in about 1year or more, thats how good things kinda have been going for myself and my H. Two years ago my trust was crumbled to the ground by lies, and deciete by my H. We have communicated most of the time about our feelings and such, I also remind my H that things just don't go unforgotten or go away at any point. They can be worked around. but never go away.. <p>here is the situation. My H knows that I need to trust him and he needs not to lie about the stupid things to me, that he needs to constantly know that he does have something to prove to me that I can trust him. It has to be earned back. At what point is that done? is it ever done???? We have been having an issue w/affection twards me and attention from my H, I tell him hey Iam here wait no I YELL sometimes and say we need some time together, he doesn't seem to get it. We went on a trip this weekend w/some friends and I felt like the third wheel, I didn't get a word in edgewise, my H and our friends W, talked the whole time, I had to compete to say anything, Im not talking just one afternoon, it was the whole weekend, I stopped myself for a minute and sat back and said nothing for 25 minutes and she was telling us a story, she didn't look at me or her H once, just her and my H?? What the ----!!I couldn't believe it..Then my H said on the way home did you have fun????/ I said wasn't this trip suppose to celebrate my 29th birthday???? He feels he did nothing wrong and didn't realize he had not talked w/me the whole weekend!! We did do the deed 3X but didn't talk about anything together. I guess I'm not as interesting as her.<p>B [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

That's pretty odd behavior. Keep your eyes and ears open, maybe ask the other H if HE noticed anything. It'll plant the bug in his ear and HE'LL keep his eyes open (whether or not he knows it).<p>I don't know what kind of background you all have, and I don't know the nature of the relationship between your H and this OW....but it gives me that creepy sort of feeling in the pit of my stomach (kinda a been there, done that but didn't see it thing).<p>Try to figure out if you're not meeting some of your H needs. Maybe sit him down w/ the EN checklist and do a marital tune-up. I'd avoid telling him about this site right now, unless he already knows. You might need it for a place to vent and don't want him lurking and listening.<p>I's sorry to plant these thoughts if they haven't been there already, but I'm pretty sure they are. Remember, your gut's usually right about what's going on.<p>Be vigilent, and God bless.
Kev

Hi camjon,
First of all let me just say HAPPY BELATED BIRTHDAY and welcome back to MB. I'm going to try to answer your question even tho it's after the fact that he already blew it. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] Yes he blew it, but so did you because you said nothing to him during the entire weekend! You led him to believe that you approved of his behavior when clearly, you did not. Don't let him carry on like that when it bothers you so much!? You gotta say something next time--right when it starts happening. Maybe you guys can create a funny signal word where he can recognize it's time to give you a hug. (?)<p>This is what you could do next time: Just interrupt your talkative girlfriend by touching her arm, looking her right in the eye, smiling warmly and in a very polite yet assertive way say, "Excuse me!" Then, facing your husband, say, "Honey can I have a moment with you in private, please?" Excuse yourselves from the situation and go hash it out. <p>In fact, you could even work it out (POJA) beforehand with your H that if you find yourselves in a social setting where you are starting to feel uncomfortable, you can have the right to pull him to the side to help you out of your slump.<p>You don't have to yell (LB), because you can say it in a nice way that you felt like you need him to be more inclusive of you on the vacation and you were feeling left out because HE didn't make any effort to include you and you would have liked that.<p>He had opportunities to turn the conversation toward you, I'm sure, but he didn't. Still, it's not all his fault because you could have said something. I think I know how you feel because I have a bad habit of talking over my H sometimes and he hates it... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Still, it's difficult for me to tell if you were miserable because of what was happening around you or because of what was/is already going on inside of you? Still, you need to make up your mind to be more communicative and I think it will work toward your benefit.<p>He was all laughing and happy and not a care in the world, you can't fault him for that? You never said anything the whole weekend!? You say "he knows" about your needs, but obviously he doesn't! Show him Harley's suggestions if he hasn't seen it already and tell him point blank what you need him to do, in writing. With more practice, he'll get it! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Show him this Q&A letter with advice from Dr. Harley. Good luck and hugs to you!<p>How to Meet the Need for Affection<p>[ November 13, 2001: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

Camjon<p>I've only posted here once since my DD 24 Aug, but I wanted to share something with you. I recently found out that my WS has had multiple affairs during our 30 years marriage. One of them was with one of his co-worker who had become a friend (I thought). She lived in another state but visited a few times and kept in touch with my H over the years...During her visits, accompanied by her H who was also a co-worker and friend, I always felt as though my H and she were in their own little world. They always talked to each other as though her H and I were not part of the conversation and I always felt uneasy about it but never confronted my H about it. That was a big mistake. You see, my H loves to flirt, even in front of me. I've always accepted as part of his personality and always trusted him blindly because I believed that he loved me and would never deceive me. Little did I know...I've told my H that from now on I will tolerate his behavior and I will put a stop to it even it is embarrassing to him. BINthereDUNthat has given you the right answer....Take care.

Thank you all for your reply, I guess my thing is, gosh if you love someone, why do you have to be told that you have to pay attention to them. If you had a dog or an animal that you didn't pay attention to it would die or animal control would be called!! I do communicate w/my DH all the time. It's like having a 2 year old sometimes. I say the same things over and over what I need, I don't need things I need love and affection because he loves me not because I tell him to.<p>As for my history, 2 years ago, I recieved a letter stating that my DH was having an affair right under my nose at his work and that by me coming around w/the kids and such to visit is making a fool of me and the kids. I don't know who wrote it, or why, never got to the bottom of it. My DH denied anything was going on, there were thousands of signs, coming home late, lieing about where he was and w/whom, We split for the holidays but somehow got back together, went to couseling and everything was ok, but he forgot somehow that this is and will always be unresolved.<p>So here I am, questioning his behavior again. One other really bad one was I went in one morning to surpise my DH at work and called him, he wasn't in the office yet, so I called his cell phone and he didn't answer, I went to where he works out in the morning and he was still there at 9:30am the thing is he left the house at 6:30am. I saw his cell phone in the car so I found a parking spot near and waited for him thinking he would be out soon. Well 35 minutes later he came out. as soon as he opened his car door I called his cell, I said where are you. He said at work, I said oh really, he preceded to tell me that he was at work in the parking lot and had been on his cell phone w/a client for about 35 minutes. In the mean time I am looking right at him at the gym parking lot. He then changed his mind and said he was acctually not at his work parking lot he was at the gym pkng lot talking to his client. I said oh,,, really I was now driving, I am right behind you!!!!! he hung the phone up. I couldn't believe what he just did lied to my face. He thought I would get mad if I knew he was at the gym that long. anyway that is some of our history. Kinda messed up and I just keep taking all of his you know what!! I am emotionally exhausted!! This weekend was almost the hair that broke the camels back!! Now he is wondering what is wrong, when we had a long discussion about him not paying any attention to me this weekend and how I felt. All he said was Sorry I didn't realize I did that. And that's that. So what do I do now, keep nagging?? I have tried the phase of giving him more affection, and attention for a long time, It gets tireing after about 2 years and getting nothing back emotionally in return...........
CJ [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ November 14, 2001: Message edited by: camjon ]</p>

Any advise???? Please!! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

I feel for you. This is some sorry [censored] advise but... Are you on AntiD's?<p>This is so stupid. I am right there with you camjon. is that what we need to hold our marriage together - drugs? <p>It sucks, I know. I am off AntiD's now and am losing my patients with the whole thing. <p>We can not control them. We can not fix them. And ultimately we can not expect anything from them. We have GOT to find peace somehow no matter how they treat us. <p>I relate. I imagine you are feeling a little "notheard" yourself. We talk and reason and don't LB and pray and cry and take drugs, we kick them out, allow them back.... sigh...it just seems so hopeless.

OK...sorry i have to ask this! ive been reading thru many many of the threads and one thing i CAN NOT understand is WHY?????<p>WHY do you let them treat you this way? <p>why do you stay for this?<p>after the trust is gone its NEVER coming back...trust ME there, you can forgive but you will NEVER forget <p>i just see soo msny people in pain and unhappy holding on tightly to <nothing><p>you know what? being in a reletionship that has worn itself out and gives you no happiness, but tons of grief, isnt worth it [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>when my X cheated i knew i could never look at him again with love, knew i could never get past the betrayal of it. i let him go, <he had the nerve to say to me ...but we were supposed to grow old together> <p>i am soo happy now to have my own self respect back, and i kept him as a friend, a distant friend but we can talk. <p>and ...no you cannot change them , if you dont like who they are...walk away, most people will regress to where they came from even if they attempt to change temporarily...<p>we are who we are plain and simple<p>please dont take this negativley, i just cant see what you are holding on to...and id like to understand better [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by soulmate11:
<strong>OK...sorry i have to ask this! ive been reading thru many many of the threads and one thing i CAN NOT understand is WHY?????<p>WHY do you let them treat you this way? <p>why do you stay for this?<p>after the trust is gone its NEVER coming back...trust ME there, you can forgive but you will NEVER forget <p>i just see soo msny people in pain and unhappy holding on tightly to <nothing><p>you know what? being in a reletionship that has worn itself out and gives you no happiness, but tons of grief, isnt worth it [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>when my X cheated i knew i could never look at him again with love, knew i could never get past the betrayal of it. i let him go, <he had the nerve to say to me ...but we were supposed to grow old together> <p>i am soo happy now to have my own self respect back, and i kept him as a friend, a distant friend but we can talk. <p>and ...no you cannot change them , if you dont like who they are...walk away, most people will regress to where they came from even if they attempt to change temporarily...<p>we are who we are plain and simple<p>please dont take this negativley, i just cant see what you are holding on to...and id like to understand better [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Well, soulmate, a few things come to mind when I read what you've written here. <p>First, you ask why anyone would stay for this treatment. Marriage Builders is about saving the unsavable marriage. No, MB is not a miracle-worker, but miracles do happen around here.<p>I agree that the "blind trust" we once had for the spouse who cheats will never be again, and in a way that's very sad, isn't it? But the bottom line, I think, is that nobody *should* be trusted blindly, because we are all humans prone to error, and also, marriage is not something that works well when not watched carefully and nurtured.<p>But back to your original question of why... usually it is very simple: we love the WS. We love them, and we want our marriages to work. Sometimes it is for the children involved. And sometimes it is religious conviction or a sense of morality, since we vowed "for better or worse". And sadly, in some cases, like my previous marriage, it wasn't to be repaired. That sometimes happens. <p>I hope I've answered your question??<p>Finally, and this is not a slam, but an observation... and frankly, I don't know if you want to or will change your name, but the word soulmate is a slap in the face for most BS's because our spouses (or ex-spouses or even we ourselves who have been WS's) have said that the OM or OW was a "soulmate"... I only say this to let you know that some might be hurt by your handle. If I have offended you, I apologize. I don't EVER try to hurt or offend, but I did think you needed to know this.

WOW!! some heavy stuff here...I am not new to this forum, I was a regular about two years ago, and to be honest it was the only thing that gave me hope, and yes I did and sometimes do think that it almost seems like a waste of time. Why am I even fighting. But I do love my H very very much, I don't know what I would do w/out him. And sometimes I wonder what am I doing with him. The fight seems like an endless battle eating away at our soals, but with out a battle how would we cherish anything if it came so easily. I don't want a divorse, I don't want to be separated, I want to be loved, and wanted. Idon't know if I will get what I want, all I can say is I didn't give up and fought til the very end and didn't give in. If I didn't care I wouldn't be married right now, I would be in my 2nd year of divorse w/two children trying to explain what happened. And wondering if we could have ever made it if we tried. I am not on anti-d's. I try to keep myself busy, My kids are my light and keep me sane!! I am glad to have all of you. Everything that you have all written seem to be taking words out of my mind. Thank you!!!

nyneve,,,
thank you for the answer [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>mayhaps i just dont get going thru all the pain for years and years when there isnt much <if anything > left of the spouse you married , and broke those vows?<p>who...is likley to repeat the patterns, and doesnt have your best interests in their hearts...<p>luckily i never had childern with the X so i cant quite wear those shoes, wish i could grasp that too, my best friend is looking at staying in a TERRIBLE marriage for another 12 years till the child graduates...<p>the sad thing is he has met "the one" and he knows it, yet will sacrifice his own personal happiness KNOWING she is out there [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>i really feel for him...guess its part of why i asked, i came here to see how others with kids survived the break ups, and how the kids fared, i have this theory <right or wrong> that more emotional damage is done to them by observing a less than happy <worse HORRIBLE > marriage for all those years....<p>i think kids try to emulate their parents in everything they do, including seeking out the kind of marriage their parents had..especially if the unhappiness is being hidden well as it is so often..<p>just a theory<p>didnt know about the handle being offensive , thanks for letting me know, ill see what reactions i get and consider changing it [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>and thank you again for the honest thoughtful answer some of those things <like religion > never occured to me ...i think of happiness in this one life being of extreme imoportance<p>and sometimes alone is better than lonley and married miserably <?><p>again just my opinion

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by camjon:
<strong>Thank you all for your reply, I guess my thing is, gosh if you love someone, why do you have to be told that you have to pay attention to them. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>HI again camjon,
Well to answer your question, I think it is because some of us were raised with a lot of affection and spontaneous strokes and some of us were not. The ones who were raised to be affectionate can come across as very demanding people to those who have not. It sounds like you have married a man who, like my husband, was not raised with a lot of hugging and spontaneous stroking. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] Join the club!<p>So what do you do? YES, you keep reminding them and you keep revisiting the EN questionnaire. This EN thing is not a one-time fill it out and never have to think about it again. Bad habits are so easy to fall back into. We all just get lazy. WE ALL GET LAZY! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>But I agree with you that you want to be ravished and desired by your man, not to have to remind him all the dang time. *sigh* [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>But OMG, he is lying to you and getting busted in his lies! I don't know what is up with this?! He hung up on you. Okay, so what happened when/if you discussed this later? Is that when he confessed that he thought you would be upset?<p>So he's a conflict-avoider type of liar? Harley wrote about that in HNHN. Maybe you could read that chapter again and get some more insight as to what you can do to make your husband feel safe again, you know, so he doesn't have to feel like he's walking on eggshells. Heck, I mean, who cares if he wants to work out for 5 hours a day if it is going to make him be a better hubby to you?! I think that is terrific. I'm all for working out, but he can ditch the lies.<p>I have to say that the way you busted him is a CLASSIC! I LOVED IT! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] You have learned your lessons and I guess you know better than all of us what you are dealing with here...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
<strong>I am emotionally exhausted!! This weekend was almost the hair that broke the camels back!! </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Give yourself a break. Take a time out and do something just for you. Maybe go to a day spa or stay at a hotel for a weekend and take a lot of bubble baths. Tell him that you need a time out so that you can regroup. Would he understand? You don't want to be nagging him all the time. He doesn't need another mom and you don't need another kid to raise, so time out!!!<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
<strong>So what do I do now, keep nagging?? </strong><hr></blockquote><p>No, just either take a break for yourself or simply plan some dates for you two. Refill out the questionnaires and go over them in bits and on different dates. Talk to each other. Tell him you are feeling insecure right now (could be PMS blowing things out of proportion, but maybe not--wait til after this week and you'll know for sure! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ) Still, just don't be so quick to let your taker emerge. Remind him of this article by Dr.Harley, too!<p>How to Meet the Need for Affection<p><<<<HUGS>>>>