<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

OOOO,<p>I think you should definately keep up with the hugs. Not only will this show your W that you still want to be close to her and love her, but it will help her thaw. <p>When I was in withdrawal I didn't want to touch my H let alone hug him. He constantly and consistantly hugged me and told me he loved me even though for him it was like hugging a stone. His persistance paid off. It took about 2 months, but I finally felt like hugging him back. It was extremely easy to stay in withdrawal when I wasn't having any contact with him. I never felt any need for affection from him. Because he forced me to have that touch from him, eventually it got harder and harder to keep my emotions in check. Now 3 months later, I even initiate a hug (sometimes).<p>I think the fact that she says you can hug her is the first sign that she might be coming out of withdrawal. I too told my H no at first, then said he could if he wanted to, but it wouldn't effect me. What a load of c**p that was. I think it will be harder for your W to deny her feelings if she is getting that physical touch. Let's face it, we all have feelings even when we don't want them. You just need to help her admit to hers.<p>I hope this helped a little! Keep trying! Sending you a (((((CYBER HUG))))) for strength [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Jen

OOOO,<p>You know what I think! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

I really vote for keep hugging her- but dont do it TOO much. When my H was in a very heavy EA/PA with OW and had moved out of the house he would come by many nights to see our 3 kids. He would always hug them and kiss them goodbye in front of me which made me VERY sad and upset since he didnt do the same to me. I would sometimes reach out as he was brushing past me on his way out the door and reach out and give him a quick hug. He didnt resist. I would do this a few times per week. Not attempt anything more personal than that. I DO think it helped him thaw and influenced him about whether to attempt to return to our marriage or not. OW had pressured him not to touch me at ALL and thats how it had been for months before he moved out. My reaching out to him helped make him see me as a PERSON not some blob that he could plot against along with OW. We are now reconciling after having gone 7 mo with no physical intimacy and its better than before his A. Hang in there@ lifeismessy PS Persistence overcomes resistance.

So, OOOO's a tree hugger? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Sorry, couldn't resist.<p>You're an extremely patient man, so I'm with Messy - slow but sure.<p>WAT

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

OOOO,<p>By all means, keep up the hugging. I say go for a hug at least three times a week.
I went through a period where I had absolutely no desire for anything physical at all. This killed my H. BUT, one thing I do know. If you stop hugging her now, she will not miss it.
If you start hugging her and keep it regular she will get used to it. It will be helpful for her to come out of her shell. She is coming around, ever so slowly. You must be consistant. Take it from someone who has been there.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by OffOnOnOff:
<strong><p>Thank you sing for dropping by.
Hmmmm I try to analyze what you think and I think I know what you think. Do you think so? <p>.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Yeah, I bet you know what I think. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Also I like the slow increase in hugs. How about a slow increase of 1 a wk, then 2 hold there for a couple of wks & see how it goes. <p>Remember how chilly you were 6 months ago. I think VA has hit a warm spell.

OOOO<p>A very timely topic for me. My W decided less than a month ago that she wanted to come back and work on the marriage. The second weekend after she told me, she was at my place spending the night and asked me if she could kiss me. She now spends the about half the time at my place, but we are moving back in together next week. My problem is I am not sure about giving her kisses goodbye. I asked her once in an email and she said it would have been okay. But I am still apprehensive about initiating the kiss. I don't think she would mind, I'm just not sure if she's ready for it.<p>S&C

Gosh OffOnOnOff,
Coming from a person who never gets tired of being hugged and squeezed I can't even fathom what your wife is going through or has been through to have her so shut off in the affection department. Nevertheless, don't give up. <p>I firmly believe that persistence pays off and cleopatra is soooo right. For a person who can live without affection, particularly the human touch, they don't miss it when they don't get it. My H is the perfect example. She is so right. <p>I think your hugs will payoff better if you stop judging her responses and just give her hugs because you want to give them freely--expecting nothing in return. & that's the best attitude to have when we are giving... You don't look for the return from the receiver, you just give because you want to please God. Then you can look to God for the rewards. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

OOOO,<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I know I should take it slowly but what is the norm here. Once a week! Once a month! As time is right! When is it too much becomes too much? <hr></blockquote><p>I think that depends on how your W was before "the c**p hit the fan". I have always been affectionate. I'm Italian and was raised with LOTS of hugs and kisses. My H basically started with bedtime (of course if your not living together this won't work). He gave me a hug before we went to bed. Then it was when we left each other (to go to work etc.). Then he moved up to when we got home too. I think this worked with me because I am so stubborn (another lovely Italian trait). I wanted to prove to him that it wouldn't affect me, so I just let him hug me whenever he wanted to. <p>You need to judge by her personality and her reactions. If you increase and she starts to avoid you like the plague, I would say it is too much. If she doesn't respond and continues to show indifference, I would say you are doing well [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Who would have thought indifference would be a positive sign [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Also FYI, I was the BS not the WS so I may not have been in the same mindset as your W, but it sounds like she is reacting the same way I was to my H.<p>I hope I didn't just confuse you more [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Keep in touch,
Jen

O4,<p>my 2cents - for what they are worth is - don't stop the hugging. BUT drop the 'is it ok for you' after the hug. She's right, if it wasn't ok, she wouldn't let you hug her. And if it's ok, then it's an LB to ask for confirmation that it really is ok.<p>However, the question is, where do you want to go with the hugs? What is your goal?<p>sorry, just couldn't leave a fellow tree hugger in the woods alone, just had to chip in [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>- Freddy - a fellow tree hugger [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

OOOO,<p>Even if your wife is already used to not having phsyical contact with you, it is not too late. My H was persistant. Sometimes it bothered me, other times, I tried to roll with it.
Try any type of affection that is not sexual in nature to warm her up. Cards, flowers, little notes, thoughtful gestures, hugs, hand holding, arm around the shoulder or waist when walking. She'll thaw. It just might take a while.

OOOO,<p> Went through that stage with my wife as well. Hug her as often as you feel like it. She'll let you know if it's too much. I also did the type of gestures Cleopatra mentioned. I'll add to her list breakfast in bed, small piece of chocolate w/note hidden where she'll find it, or maybe in the advanced course draw her a bath w/bubbles and have her favorite girly magazine and a glass of wine on a table next to the tub. But remember the golden rule keep it totally non-sexual. <p>Something else worth adding here is quality of gesture far outweighs quantity. The second time I bought my wife flowers, she got PO'ed and said your can&#8217;t buy me and tossed em in the trash. So the following night I put on dark clothes and borrowed a few hand picked flowers from around my part of town. Not my finest moment pillaging park/apartment/cityhall(LOL) flowerbeds, but when she woke up and saw them (we were in separate rooms) and read the accomping note that said "If I can&#8217;t buy you, then I guess I'll have to try to steal you". She ran into my room and gave me the first kiss I'd had in over 4 months. <p>
The following weekend we were out at some artsy fartsy place that she wanted to go and she found a fountain that she just had to have. Some metal sculpture with stuff that moves and spins as the water flows down. When she asked me to buy it, I told her that I wasn't allowed to buy her over and anything with the price tag of this thing had to be buying her. Also added that she could buy it if she liked. She didn't buy it and we went home. She left town for a 3-night business trip the following morning and I decided that night I would take a crack at metal sculpture. I've worked on computers all my adult life and swung a few hammers for fun on the weekends, but never ever had I touched a welder or torches. Needless to say it was a hoot building this thing, but in the end when she got home a new fountain pretty much like the one she had to have was on the porch. That gesture meant so much to her that even today as we contemplate divorce (long story) she wants her fountain because it was made just for her.<p>I know I got a little carried away from the main subject here, but the moral of the story is spend your efforts on quality and not quantity.<p>Good Luck,
HI

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by OffOnOnOff:
<strong>I do hope that persistence would pay off but persistence may be perceived as aggressive also.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Well, don't let that be your excuse not to try to reestablish a connection. After all, you can only be responsible for your good intentions and not someone's misperceptions of them...<p>For example, if I decide to do something kind from my heart for someone else, but feel that others would perceive me as a butt-kisser, does that mean I should scrap the good deed altogether? Of course not!<p>Perhaps you should rethink your motivation (giver or taker), and proceed from there.<p>All I'm saying is try not to sabotage your Plan A efforts with self-defeating, negative thoughts!

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>