I feel like I stepped on a transporter and got sent back to D-Day.<p>We've gone back to some of our old tricks. Separate bedtimes, enemies of good conversation, separate lives.... Some of this is mentioned in the update on Resilient's thread Calling All MB Warriors - Update Time.<p>I've been going to bed earlier than W lately, but unable to sleep. She comes in later and drifts off quickly. I listen to the clock chime, hour after hour. This morning I woke up at 5am in the middle of an awful, terrible dream. I'm back in that first month, all over again.<p>Please tell me that "this too, shall pass".<p>Jeffers

It shall, Jeffers .. It shall.<p>Sounds like what you're experiencing is more about you than it is about your W. Is it possible you're creating this distancing? <p>As of late, I was thinking how easy it is to let negative thoughts dictate my daily life if I allow them [shows in my more recent posts]. Sometimes it's so hard to wake up from such a profound dissapointment in your life and see that you do have a choice.<p>Maybe this sounds too simple, Jeffers ... but I can either chose to be Happy or chose to be unHappy. When is it time to be Happy? How much mourning do I have to do to make myself okay with everything? Who else is going to fix me but me? <p>I have those terrible dreams too, wake up crying and anxious, shaking and cold. I don't mind learning lessons in life, but I never thought I would have to suffer "this" in order to learn how to be a good marriage partner.<p>How long in recovery, Jeffers? I ask because my very dear friend Lora is in recovery and they're in their 6th month. He is just now starting to come around. Their time during the last 6 mos sounds very similar to what you're experiencing.<p>You can hang in there, keep talking to us. We're here for you.<p>Love,
Jo<p>[ November 13, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Jeffers...I am going to get stern with you...<p>You know this is about you and not about her. It is also about what you are allowing yourself NOT to say...<p>You must have the courage to say what needs to be said...to get really honest about your relationship...<p>What have you two DONE to really change your interactions? You can't put a bandaid on it...do a couple of things and pronounce yourselves healed...<p>You must dig deep within yourself and figure out why it is the way it is and then DECIDE DO YOU WANT TO CHANGE? <p>Then start with YOU...my friend...start with YOU.<p>You are only responsible for your half of the relationship...<p>HUGZZZZ, my friend...<p>Go to God first...ask HIM what he wants you to do...EVERYTHING I read has been pointing to this...even the Co-Dependency books...<p>C a l i

Jo,<p>Yes, yes, yes. I certainly have invented this stuff all on my own. I don't think there is anything going on with W right now. I think distancing is my reaction to being pushed away. I build little emotional walls to say, well, if you really want me then you have to jump over this wall to get to me. Generally, she does. I know that during her EA, she wasn't noticing me much. Maybe that was a trigger this time.<p>Dumb game, kinda like tag "you're it".<p>You saw my post, "something to share..." I used to be the happiest person I knew. I'm certain that's who I really am, at heart. When I said, in my update, that I am happy again, most of the time, that is accurate. Just got caught off guard these last couple of nights. I'm also one of those people who thinks too much. But, then thinking and understanding make me happy, too. <p>I've been seeing your unhappy posts this last week or so. I knew you'd appreciate that link in the "share" thread. Every day should have something good in it.<p>We've been in recovery since about June (5 months?) Funny, this revovery has been mostly about me. I think she was done recovering after she professed her undying love to me (back in June). Sounds pretty typical, doesn't it.<p>So, even though "I know" this is only a temporary bump in the road I also know that posting about it will help me feel better real fast. The door's always open here isn't it! Is that needy or what? <p>Thanks,<p>Jeffers

Jeffers...I am worried about you...<p>Are you okay?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Resilient:
<strong>As of late, I was thinking how easy it is to let negative thoughts dictate my daily life if I allow them [shows in my more recent posts]. Sometimes it's so hard to wake up from such a profound dissapointment in your life and see that you do have a choice.<p>Maybe this sounds too simple, Jeffers ... but I can either chose to be Happy or chose to be unHappy. When is it time to be Happy? How much mourning do I have to do to make myself okay with everything? Who else is going to fix me but me? <p></strong><hr></blockquote><p>OMG, Jo, you are absolutely right. I've felt like this toooooo many times. And, it's such a waste of time. Life is to damned short to be cynical, pessimistic and so full of doubt. <p>Gosh, thanks for the wake-up call. I hope to remember your words each time that I get into the down groove of "woe is me." BTW, sorry to step on your thread Jeffers. Me thinks that you and I are good candidates for a "re-think."

Jeffers: I read your posts and maybe you're not thinking what you really should be thinking ... (and I am a think-too-much person too) ... my point is to go where you envision yourself as happy. I did and it's not where I was with my cheating H. It was hard at first to think the worst thing (about getting out of an abusive relationship). I had it easy because he kept berating me and had absolutely no humility for the hurt he caused me. It was all my fault. So I left after 7 months of trying and I am literally feeling paroled. D-Day: 7/2000. Sometimes I wonder whether it's the fear of moving on alone or the fear that the WS has some control that keeps BS from doing what's best. I don't know about you, but my WS is, was, not my friend or lover. If he were, he would never have hurt me so deeply. So, for me, bye-bye felt good.
And still does after 7 months "paroled". Take care, I know you must be in so much pain and confusion ... listen to your heart and you will know where to go. Just follow what you hear. There are plenty of good people out there to help you when you get there.

Hi Jeffers:<p>You know an affair...whatever kind...takes away something from us that we can never get back again...that utter trust in another human being.
So to protect ourselves we built the little walls around us and wait...wait for WS to do what we expect them to do...betray us again...and we look for all the signs that that is what's happening...what's beginning again...so we'll be prepared this time. <p>It's understandable but it's very destructive to your recovery...you basically have to force yourself to believe that recovery is possible...and not hide behind your fear of it happening again. Everyone is so right...you have to live in the positive...today, tomorrow, the future is going to be OK...because that's the way you're going to make it. Don't let the past worm its way into today...because it can eat away at all the positive things that have happened and can happen in the future.<p>I just someone had told me this when my WS came home..maybe I could have save myself a lot of additional pain. But I was just like you...afraid that it was all too tenuous..that I couldn't hold on to it...couldn't keep it together. I wish I had tried harder...please won't you try again...and again...again...until it's right.<p>Faye

Hi jeffers,
So hmmm... Is it that you want your wife to chase you and she is not? Okay so what are YOU DOING to initiate some tenderness in your home? Have you guys made any plans to go out and do something together lately? It doesn't have to be expensive.<p>Remember you were talking about smelling the roses and appreciating nature, maybe you guys could go for a walk together one of these evenings? Why not? OR go get an ice cream cone and drive to a scenic place and just enjoy each other's company. Don't let those old bad habits creep back into your marriage. Instead of looking at what she is doing (or not doing) and reacting to it, YOU initiate something. You gotta figure out a way to spend recreational time with her to detract her interest from the computer at night... What have you got to lose? Certainly not any shut-eye! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Are you suffering from seasonal depression? It affects people at this time of year you know. Do you need some medicine?<p>Stop looking at your wife and look deep within. Keep asking yourself why until you get the answers. Like, WHY are you in bed while your wife is still up when clearly, you are NOT sleepy?<p>Why didn't you say something to her when you noticed she came to bed, such as "Good Night Honey, I love you?"<p>Why are you withdrawing? I mean, the silence between you guys seems to be what is killing you.<p>There is nothing wrong with the man saying, "Honey, we need to talk." Your wife might be the very one who can help you sort through all your feelings right now? Perhaps? But you have to give her a chance... it would be a LB to think she wouldn't or couldn't.<p>Another suggestion is to revisit the EN questionnaire bit by bit on several date nights out together. This will pass, but you have to want it to pass and make it pass. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Jeffers...<p>I am still concerned...where are you? Are you okay?

Trying Again (and everyone else),<p>I was in the middle of responding... just lost a huge post. I'm going to try to reconstruct it. I'm fine and have lots to say. Thank you for being concerned, it means a lot to me.<p>Jeffers

Pheeew! Thanks for letting us know. <p>Jo

I'm not really sure where to begin.... or continue.<p>I have read all the replies (many times) and have much to think about here. I intend to respond to each post -- I got some different things out of each one, I may not get all the reponses into this reply, but they're coming.<p>I feel I should give you some further info.<p>W has not been online the last two evenings. She knows I'm upset about something and thinks that's it. It's not. If I had been "open and honest" with her (her #1 EN) she would know that I just want to spend time with her. <p>Well, we did spend time together. Went to 15yo S orchestra concert last night and then came home and cuddled. S was surprised, "Why are you cuddling? You're married, you're not supposed to cuddle." Sad, what we unintentionally teach our children.<p>Trying Again,<p>We posted on top of each other yesterday, I didn't even have time to read your post until today... had to run to the concert.<p>You must be getting tired of saying the same thing to me... over ...and over...
It will sink in, eventually.<p>A reminder (to all): W and I are mostly good to each other, we almost never LB (true for many years). We both had trouble coming up with LBs for each other when we were doing the ENQ. What we have never done, is communicate, so I can't fall back on a "we used to do this" model. <p>According to the Harleys building love (ENs) is more important than totally eliminating LBs. W now knows what it's like to have her #1 EN filled so I must say that I do worry about NOT filling it properly and I WON'T consider our marriage safe until I do.<p>So, in my case, you are right, it [b]is[b] about what I am NOT saying. She is doing her part. There is no lack of affection now (the big thing I was missing from her previously). She deserves the MB pat on the back. She's being very patient with me.<p>We are both "I"s in Keirsey lingo (introverts). Me, more so than her. Neither one of us is a "draw them out" person. I'm starting to wonder if this is one area where counselling can help us.<p>I understand the "just do it" advice. If it were easy (or only difficult) I would've "done it" already. It's excruciating.<p>I have been attempting, though, testing the water with my toe (so to speak). I brought up some innocous MB discussions -- pointy knives in a dishwasher. I also tried to talk about oversexed teens at a HS debate tourny I had judged. Can't say I really chose these topics wisely, but they were things that I wanted to tell her my thoughts about and hear what she had to say.<p>Neither conversation went well, don't know why. I worry about what would happen to a "real" topic. I did mention (last night) that I thought she had been treating me badly (ala the previous discussions). She said "I thought we were supposed to be honest?" I think I gave up on that conversation too soon as well.<p>I think I will try to tell her why I have been behaving badly the past few days. Since I don't speak much, I need to be "impeccable in my behavior". I just have to stop this cold shoulder stuff.<p>buffy,<p>I wonder if I've been testing her. You know, prove to me that you're not going to repeat your earlier behavior, even if I'm not nice. <p>If you love someone, kick them out the door. If they come back they must love you. Not very constructive, is it?<p>Sorry, I've wasted all this time reconstructing my lost post. Now I have to go and I'm not done. I will finish this.<p>Jeffers

BtDt,<p>Your comments are right on the money. We WERE doing all those things: taking walks, going out to dinner. For some reason (life got busy again, I guess) we just quit. Neither of us is averse to doing those things, we just got complacent. I haven't been suggesting any alternatives to being online!<p>We used to have a relationship dynamic that was very bad -- me chase, she run. After getting very angry/depressed I would quit chasing, but she would never chase back. <p>This is the thing that changed the most in recovery. I don't feel like I'm chasing anymore, but I think that sometimes I feel that I have to test (my comment to buffy).<p>We were in the grocery store this morning (together) and W couldn't find an item she was looking for. "Why don't you ask someone?"..."Why don't you ask?", "No you"..... I sometimes think this is our ONLY "real" problem. We don't have trouble conversing (as in conversational EN) just in communicating feelings. It IS the (emotional) silence that is killing us. We try to communicate nonverbally, but so often that is a recipe for getting it wrong.<p>We were sitting together last night and when I got up she wanted to know where I was going...."not to bed", I said.<p>I like the "revisit the ENQ" suggestion. I've wanted to do that for a while. She'll be able to tell me that I'm not meeting openess and honesty and then I'll have to respond, won't I.<p>TwentyNinePalms,
(Your name reminds me of a community in SC - Isle of Palms, where Hurr. Hugo hit)<p>I wasn't sure that your advice was on target, then I read it a few more times. I actually have two issues going on: marriage building, life purpose (read MLC here). I really am trying to figure out what it is that really makes me happy. With MB there is a plan to get your marriage on track - do X and Y and ..... I'm clueless about how to get my life back on track. <p>I'm pretty sure I have exactly what I wanted 20 years ago. I think I was just wrong. I'm not sure exactly what about it is wrong, though. I wish my heart would jump up and shout "this is it!" Hasn't yet.<p>I agree with you GeezLouise,<p>I am a candidate for rethink mode. I also sometimes get stuck in a pity party... then I come here and people smack me around a bit... and I feel better and move on. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Thanks Y'all, (that's my fake southern accent)<p>Jeffers