My wife had EA with OM at her work but denies PA. Don't know if I believe her on PA yet. Has agreed to cease contact with OM. If I discover she is still having EA or PA with him, it is my absolute intent to inform OS. While I can see how this action would be major LB, my belief is that the reasons for advising OS far outweigh the reasons not to. <p>My reasoning, in order of importance, is as follows:<p>1) Having S end A is necessary to rebuild marriage, so the sooner the better and if advising OS expedites the process, do it!
2) I think in most situations, OS would want to and deserves to know. I believe it would be the responsible thing to do.
3) We teach our children that there are consequences to their actions, and sometimes I believe we lose sight of this as we become adults. If the WS is going to place their family in peril and deceive their S, the consequences to these actions will and should be dire.
4) If you hold honesty and openness in high regard, then all affected spouses should know about the A. This concept of radical honesty developed by Dr. Harley is rather appealing, and perhaps has some level of application in this context.
5) The downside risks are probably minimal in the longer run. It may cause OS to end marriage with their WS, thus making OP available to your WS and, despite fact you informed OS of A, your marriage may end in D anyway. I truly believe that if the marriage ultimately does not work, it won't be because BS informed OS of A. (I'm starting to get the hang of these acronyms)<p>I do agree with other postings I've read that if you decide to inform OS of A, choose your words wisely and refrain from exaggeration. Would appreciate feedback in case I'm faced with this unpleasant task. Thanks.

Here is a link to another thread that discusses the same thing. It is brough up here often and I think you have it thought through pretty well. One thing that might make it less of a love buster is for you to do it anonymously if at all possible. I know that some people may think that is the chicken way of doing it. But I believe that she should be told and it should be done in a manner that has the least impact on your marriage. Include a copy of Surving an Affair if you can. This will give her to tools if she wants to save her marriage.<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=013635<p>Z

forgive me but why would ya try?

RJB2,<p>you have to do what you think is right and live with the consequences.<p>After my Ws first A - the OS called me. She was a friend of ours although a bit scatty - and she gave me a whole bunch of details about the A which were very painful for me to hear. She kept saying to me 'you don't know about the A, do you?'. Then she told me stuff, like where they'd 'done it', how often they'd 'done it'. I didn't believe her at first, I had to ask her questions to check if she was lying to me and to prove that she was right. It was horrible.<p>And it gave me three problems:<p>1) I had to confront my W with those details and ask her if they were true or not. My W denied some, said others were exaggerated. However, I realised that whatever happened, I'd NEVER KNOW the truth. NEVER.<p>2) I questioned the intent of the OS. Why had she told me so much? Was she trying to hurt my W and ME by divulging information that may not be true?<p>3) Who was lying to me; my W or the OS?<p>In the end, I broke contact with the OS. Told her that she should stop calling me and that I didn't want to talk to her again. IMO it would be better for me NOT to have talked with the OS. <p>I'm now of the opinion that she was a bitter woman who wanted to get her own back. The discussion has led me to doubt my W over the years and has caused me some serious difficulties in our M. These problems led me to withdrawing from my W, making some very disrespectful judgements and taking years to recover from the A.<p>My W had a second A this year. Again with the H of a friend (a different one this time). I chose NOT to tell the OS - it would only have her questioning my intent and perhaps my honesty. I dealt with the issues in our marriage and I must say, we are very happy together today.<p>In my heart I know that I owe nothing to the OS. The A is dead and her H is not seeing my W anymore. The OS may learn in time what happened but not from me.<p>Just wanted to give you a different perspective [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>take care,<p>- Freddy

Freddy,<p>You make some very good points. <p>Perhaps the things to learn from your experience are that the BS should weigh very carefully their intent in telling. If it is to “get even” or to bad mouth the WS/OP then the BS is not in a frame of mind where they can even handle telling. If on the other hand it is to simply inform and do what I believe is the morally correct thing to do, then it must still be done very carefully. In your case it seems that the woman was bitter. Giving the minutest details is probably not the best thing to do. Like you said, they cannot be checked out, leading to the problems they caused you. Perhaps giving only very solid, concrete information: Photographs, a letter written by the WS/OP, copy of phone bill. <p>I’m glad to hear that you and your wife are doing well. <p>Just a thought<p>Z

I appreciate the responses. I entirely agree that I would need right frame of mind if I made contact. I would not discuss the details of A (frankly I don't even know them). I have no plans of contacting OS now because WS promised to cut off all contact with OM. My plan is to inform OS ONLY if I discover WS still having EA or PA with OM. In that case, my over-riding reason would be to utilize other avenues to end A.<p>I guess everyone has their own perspective on this issue, but I am the type who would want to know, and if OS contacted me (assuming her presentation had credibility) I would want to hear what she had to say.

Hello rjb2,
Good points brought up by all.
From a different perspective...as the bs, I would have appreciated knowing what my h was up to. In the many yrs he carried on affairs, not one person came forward and discussed/told me. There were many women, in various places, so many people knew he was unfaithful.
I still harbor quite a bit of anger toward those people, especially when I have to see and talk to them!
I know many say it is an LB, but I think you are on the right track. Tell, but no details. I would not do it anonymously-not sure why it does not sit well with me-maybe because it almost seems dishonest?

RJB2
[img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]
This is a very sensitive subject with me. As the WS, I did not want my husband to contact the OS, and did everything he asked me to do, including attending a meeting he set up with our preacher, the OP, my father and me all in attendance, just so that he wouldn't contact her. I was so angry, and felt such resentment toward him. I felt like it was a tit-for-tat, hard-nosed tactic designed to make him feel better, and "in control". It felt harsh, and exceedingly cruel.<p>"You stop this behaviour, or else!!!"<p>Since when does anyone have the right to threaten another adult? <p>Since when do we have the right, out of our indignancy, to interfere into someone else's marriage? <p>I feel like my marriage is my business, and my problems in my marriage are mine to work on. The OP marriage is his.<p>Just my .02 worth.<p>Artemis

Artemis:<p>I can understand your anger especially the way your spouse handled the situation. Why did he want your father there?? <p>The way I feel right now is that I have agreed to trust my spouse to end contact with OM and I will leave it at that. But if EA or PA begins again with OM, it's time for full disclosure. I really don't view it as a threat but as an action I am determined to take if necessary. I have never even threatend this course of action with my spouse.<p>I am open to other viewpoints and I appreciate that you shared your sincere feeings on this subject. Thank you.

RJB:
Thank you for responding in such a respectful way. To answer your questions, I used SNL's<p>RJB wrote: I can understand your anger especially the way your spouse handled the situation. Why did he want your father there?? <p>My husband pulled that scripture from the bible about having anything against your brother, confronting them with two or three witnesses. So he chose my dad and the preacher. It was awful, and I hate the fact of it. I felt so forced into submission. It's been one of the hardest things for me to overcome in our reconciliation. <p>RJB wrote: The way I feel right now is that I have agreed to trust my spouse to end contact with OM and I will leave it at that. But if EA or PA begins again with OM, it's time for full disclosure. I really don't view it as a threat but as an action I am determined to take if necessary. I have never even threatend this course of action with my spouse.<p>The way that seems to me is coercion. To coerce means to force to act or think in a given manner; to compel by pressure or threat. Basically it's a strong arm tactic to MAKE her do something. From what I understand about MB, plan A is a time to draw her to you, not force her into choosing. To force her to choose is a big chance for you. What if she chooses him? OR What if she chooses you, but you never know if it's because of her free will to want to be with you or to protect the OS. <p>On the other hand, your statement that you've never threatened your wife with this leads me to think you've not told her of your intentions. I'm not sure that's exactly radical honesty. If you set a trap, and then she falls in because she's so fog bound, is that very fair? Please know I'm not excusing your wife's behavior, because I'm not. I'm just asking that you give this some honest thought, not just a knee jerk reaction.<p>Thank you for acknowleding my response. I half expected to get flamed for my thoughts, and I may still before this is over. I hope I've not offended you, and I've tried to not make any judgements against you. I realize each situation is different. <p>Good luck, have patience.<p>Artemis

Artemis:<p>Again, I do appreciate your input. My basic outlook hasn't changed but I am now resolved not to make any "knee jerk" reactions. The feelings of despair and distrust are new to me, and part of my feelings on this subject are a result of trying to set my boundaries and to protect myself. <p>Perhaps I have no moral right to interfere in OP's marriage, but the cat was let out of that bag when OP and my W decided to confide in each other and start EA. I know my W and I brought our M to point where she was vulnerable to A, but once it began, both marriages were affected, whether or not OS is aware of it. I hope she is.

Quite frankly I look at it as a matter of personal integrity. If you know the WS is lying and you know that that the OS knows nothing and is faithful, then in my value guidebook I would have to find a way to non-threateningly and non-confrontationally let the OS know. A quick phone call (no details), should do the trick. Just "I think your H is having an affair with my W, I am confronting her about it, I thought you had the right to know...I wish you good luck, I am going to try to work to save my marriage."<p>Honesty and integrity, things that my H lost when he started his affair, I value them even more now and feel I have to uphold them as well. (of course if the other couple has an "understanding" the OS won't get upset, so you don't have to worry much about that being the case. Nothing would have been lost!:-)

RJB2, <p>I too am in the same position as you but perhaps just a bit further along. When my W informed me of her EA I contacted the OM to let him know he (and my W together) were threatening everything I hold precious in life...my marriage, my family, my sense of security and sanity! I also told him under no circumstances is he to ever contact my W again. Speaking to the OM was a horrible experience that felt surreal at the time, like I was outside my body. I guess I was still in shock.<p>I did tell my W upon revelation that I was going straight to his house to inform the OS (MAJOR LB). She flipped out! "If you do this it's over!!!", "Why would you want to hurt his family...They have done nothing to you?!?!?!" and then she called to warn him!<p>Talk about being absolutely blown away! She was protecting him and his family! <p>The bottom line is I did not do it but I have mixed feelings as to whether or not I should have. She promised to stop all contact with OM but after 4 months of plan A and two failed MC's my gut feeling is that she is still communicating with OM. Giving my wife the benefit of trusting that she is not going to communicate with OP turns out to be next to impossible since she doesn't seem to care much about "Compensation" (as the Harleys call it) with regard to accounting for her time and helping to ease my paranoia caused by her betrayal.<p>I am now in survelliance mode, monitoring calls, tracking cell phone usage and I even making attempts to access her voice messages at work. (She found out about this too.)<p>If I find that she is still seeing OM. I am going to consider telling his W. Yes this might throw them into each others arms or it may force OS and OM to make attempts to reconcile for the same reasons that I want to with my W.<p>Some say this might backfire, that it might cause the other M to completely fail, leaving the OM waiting in the wings for my W. If this does happen, then the last thing my wife is going to remember me doing is a huge LB, so it will have to be done and explained as respectfully and lovingly as is possible. <p>I guess what I'm trying to say is that I would be motivated to tell the OS more for my own reasons than for it being the right thing to do. That may sound wrong to some here. If so I'd like to hear opinions as well.<p>Good Luck to you..

WantWife4Life:<p>Sounds like our situations are similar but that you are farther along. Do you have gnawing doubts as to whether PA occurred? My therapist says when W had EA, the worst already happened. While I understand seriousness of some ENs being met by OP, if she actually had a PA too this would be much more difficult for me.<p>I'm getting the "I care for you as the father of our children but I'm not in love with you anymore." According to W, her EA began in early Sept., and this coincides with a change in her behavior. Most significantly, she stopped criticizing me. I now identify this as the time she withdrew completely from our M. The odd thing is, only a few weeks before we were still discussing whether to have one more child, and had spent a very romantic weekend trip together.<p>I believe I was not meeting enough of her ENs, and when OM at work bonded with her, all the remaining love my W had for me drained off. Now she is focusing only on my shortcomings, and seems to have no interest in ackowledging how her behavior played a significant part in our mutual withdrawal. <p>Although I have not asked again, she refuses to tell me the name of OM. Says if I contacted him this could hurt his family. (Sound familiar??) W thinks that by even asking for name of OM, that I am somehow psycho and thinks I would be a stalker. I think she is just using this as an excuse because my W knows that I am a level-headed person with few propensities toward compulsiveness. <p>She has not been totally open about exact nature of EA, even though I have been extremely careful and refrained from making any judgmental statements. I've read various lists on clues to discovering whether your S is involved in A. To be honest, she does not fit most of them (so far as I can tell) but does fit at least one of the big ones. Day after her announcement to me, she suggested we separate to "sort things out." According to one article penned by Dr. Harley, and I paraphrase, in most circumstances where S wants separation to sort things out, what they really want is to create time for their lover. OUCH!!!<p>To address your final comment regarding exposing A to OS (and confronting OM) for your own reasons, I find I am in some agreement with this. I've been pondering for several days now what my motivation would be to do this, and I must admit one reason would be for my own sense of respect. I really don't think it would be out of revenge, at least I don't feel that way. I think it is something much more primal.<p>If your home were engulfed in flames and your family was in imminent peril of grave injury or death, would you wait for the fire trucks to arrive or would you rescue them? If a thief tried carjacking your vehicle with your children strapped into the back seats, would you resist or let him drive away? I am feeling attacked by the contamination (a word I use purposely) created by this OP. While my analogies may be overly dramatic, I admit and I want to own my feelings of extreme rage. There is a strong feeling in me that I want to fight for my family and part of doing this is tearing off the head of the OM. Should I deny these feelings to myself or anyone else simply because it may no longer be socially acceptable for a male to express them? I don't think so!!<p>Would I physically accost OM? Not likely. Will I ultimately confront him or contact OS? It depends on what the future brings. I think it took guts for you to face OM, and I take vicarious pleasure in your fortitude. Here! Here!<p>Thanks for letting me vent.