Had talk with ws today , we talked about kids and other stuff and also talked about our relation ship , i said we have to sit down and go over the things that put us in this position and see if we can straighten it out . She said why talk about it its all my fault (ws fault) . she said that it always seems like its all on her shoulders and when she feels that way she doesnt want to talk about it . I told her that just tell me how i can share the load and I would gladly do it . no answer . what am I missing here guys ?

sounds like she's feeling sorry for herself...I would be a bit more insistent she open up and tell you what she's feeling...not just that it's her fault..but more, real feeling...specifics.

I asked her after that . So what your saying is your not interested in getting to the bottom of this? she said dont put words in her mouth . I said it was a question . Im looking for a answer .
imo she is looking for me to close the door , so she can say she didnt want to end it , it was him who quit , that way she saves some face with family , I dont know, all opinions welcome .

I just recieved a fax from ws. She sya that i should start putting myself in her position , try to see everything through her eyes. She asks if I have ever done that? then she says that she has tried to see things thru my eyes.

Still sounds like she's fishing around for you to pat her on the head and tell her it's okay, that she's not responsible for her actions. Being the WS, I understand how hard it is to actually admit to yourself that you betrayed everything your marriage stands for but you have to accept responsibility IMO before you can fix it.<p>Keep trying.

diddallas, thanks for the insight. Being that your a ws when did it happen that you realized?
I dont know your story . Are you into recovery ? Feel free to share I get more answers to my questions form folks like you than I do from my wife . Thanks ahead of time .

CB,<p>I imagine that you know this, but it hasn't been said here, so here goes.<p>There are TWO guilty parties in the marriage (actually three, but we'll leave the third wheel out for now). <p>For some reason, your WS ENs weren't being met within the marriage. Now, that's HER fault for not communicating those needs to you, and it's YOUR fault that you didn't pick up on the fact that something was missing. Like it or not, most times, had the BS BEEN meeting the EN, the A may never have occurred.<p>Now, she does hold the sole responsibility for the CHOICE to engage in an A, and there's no part of that for which you can take any blame.<p>But you are BOTH responsible for the M getting to a point that the A seemed so attractive. I think that's what she's asking you to see through her eyes. Try not to be a typical Martian (Man) and just point the blame elsewhere, for you DO share in a great portion of it. If YOU can see it, maybe it'll make her a little more willing to see HER part in it too. <p>Remember, it's not a contest to see whose fault it was. It happened, you can both learn from it, and you can both work to avoid it in the future (if both parties are willing).<p>Good luck,
Kev

i dont know i feel that perhaps i caused my wife to stray due to accusing her of things that she finally got tired of hearing and probably felt that if i was going to accuse her she may as well go ahead
you know she felt that she was damned if she di or didnt...insecurity on my part my wife is very beautiful i always felt that she would stray now i feel that i am the cause

[img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]
Colfax, I am sorry about the pain you and your wife are in. I am the WS, and I can so relate to your wife. I felt guilty, and bad that it happened like it did. Unlike your wife, I did want to talk it out, find out everything about myself and the marriage breakdown to get to the place that I had an A. <p>Even now that is a shocking statement. I never considered myself "the kind who would". Oh, the egotism of that statement.<p>I really wanted to say, Colfax, you seem to have the right, kind heart. Keep drawing her out, but gently, and PLEASE don't smother. It's hard, but it's worthy.<p>Prayers,
Artemis

Hi Colfax Bear [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>It sounds to me like your wife totally misunderstood the question. I think you meant you wanted to discuss what happened pre-affair and how you could correct those problems, right?<p>And maybe she is preoccupied with the disaster she caused and doesn't want to focus on the train wreck.<p>To me, it sounded like all you are trying to do is prevent another disaster.<p>I think your wife knows that she made the choice to cheat and everything, but it is nice that you want to take responsibility and initiative for your future running more smoothly.<p>I think you should ask her again but be more specific and don't leave out any parts of your question.<p>I KNOW!? Maybe you guys could both write down a list of 10 specific things that you both can improve on. Don't discuss anything, just exchange the papers and simply begin to work on those areas? Maybe your wife would be more willing to go about it this way instead of engaging in a big drawn out (emotionally charged) discussion???

Col,<p>I like what binthere said...and I guess none of really knows what your S is thinking except her. I just wish she would share it with you.<p>My story? Ugggh. I have been in an EA since mid-summer with the SO of a close friend--it went physical in late summer. Physical needs were not being met for him at home and Emotional needs were not being met for me. Is that a recipe for disaster or what? I am wise enough to know it's just sex. The OM is, of course, a friend of MH as well. OM's 'wife' is very intuitive and almost immediately got the 'psychic vibe' on what's going on. MH is a bit of an ostrich and I am a lot of a liar. The really sick part is that OM left his home (there was lots of other long-term stuff going on)and MH offered him our spare room until he found a place. Gulp. Before anybody has a stroke, let me say he only stayed two weeks, moved around the house like a ghost (was hardly ever there, he works three jobs) and has been gone over a month.<p>I love my husband with all my being and really don't know why I'm doing this. We have our disagreements but that's no excuse for straying. He's not perfect but who is? I want you all here to pat me on the back and tell me how great I am but truthfully, at this point, I cannot ever see me confessing to MH. He has already made it quite clear that he would never forgive anyone who cheated on him and I'm not willing to take the chance. <p>OM has started dating someone else and I was so relieved that it was over. Two nights ago, he called and told me he is not really dating her (sound familiar, anyone?) and made it obvious for him, nothing has changed. And I didn't have the guts to put an end to it. We haven't seen each other again and talk infrequently. And I really don't know why, but I still want to engage in this even though I know it's wrong, wrong, wrong, dirty and wrong.<p>I'm thinking of calling my therapist and going back to her. And I dread having to tell my psychiatrist all this. I just can see his face.<p>When you say 'when did you realize', I'm not sure what you're asking--I always knew it was wrong and I am the kind of person who believes strongly in personal accountability. Even if MH wasn't meeting all my emotional needs, I am responsible for my behavior at all times. There are times when I don't meet all H's expectations, either but I wouldn't want him to have an affair.<p>I will say, this is not a defense but just a bit of background..MH left me last year in the midst of an EA (mostly in his head, I found out later)--maybe subconsciously I think it's payback now. But my thinking brain still knows better.<p>[ November 16, 2001: Message edited by: diddallas ]</p>

I had a chance to talk with ws last night . before I read this in am I wrote down 6 things that she has done to cause me to do the things I did, I call them specifics . I gave them to her and I explained that this is whatI would like from her. I am trying to walk in her shoes, just like I am asking her to do in mine. By giving specifics your also giving them the path to walk .My ws read them and said with all this why do you want to save this marriage, i explained that I feel its worth it. She said she all of a sudden is getting really tired , started crying , shaking, I got to go will you walk me out to the car, I did that and she then said all I want is people to understand me why I do this. She also said that I dont have all the people coming down on melike she does . I said thats why I am trying to go through this with you . she gave me a hug and got in the car and left.
Thanks to all for your input and insight it does help me understand , I wish ws would get on here to get some of same .

col,<p>just wondering--is your W on medication? She sounds like I do when I'm depressed and really feeling like i'm lower than a worm. She still sounds like she feels so sorry for herself to me. Sorry, but I really get that from what you're saying she says. <p>Yeah, everybody is gonna come down on her. Betrayal and infidelity of loved ones are not traits we tend to admire and anyone who cares about y'all is gonna be mad and disappointed. I am terrified of anyone (family/friends) finding about my crime. I think you are doing the right things by trying to keep dialog open and letting her know that you still love her and want to work this thru.

Nope shes not on meds, she refuses to talk about it , A councelor touched on it breifly about 6 mon. ago. she went ballistic , then she blamed me for try to make her believe she was crazy. I tried to calm her down , all I did was step on it made things worse. Her family knows about a , she told them , she told them that they will be happy for her once they see how happy she will be . Mother tried to tell her that all marriages need work and that she should get back to her family and try to put it back together. She asked ml what does she know about a relationship ( her m and d seem to fight alot).

de nile ain't just a river in Egypt, baby!<p>I think she is neck deep in it...she seems to be quite busy pointing the finger at everyone and thing else to justify her behavior. And she doesn't like it that everybody else is smart enough to see things the way they are, not how she paints the picture, hence her anger.<p>I have so little experience in how things work here but speaking as just a person, I think you might check out that 'set them free' thing. I'm sure it strokes her ego to have you molly-coddling her and being so supportive when she's done the worst thing a spouse can do. It's almost like a kind of power trip, I think.<p>And if she doesn't come around, you're gonna have to set her free anyway.

Set them free thing ? where do I find that?
Power trip something that I was thinking . At times I talk to her at night and the next morn
she Is sharp , short and to the point . Cocky so to speak. But when she stops in to see the kids
at our place shes a soft beat up child .

Bin there , your correct , I am interested with pre a . If I know what went wrong I can repair or work on a repair. I do get a few things , I disrespected her , I didnt show affection enough. But the best answer I got was , You dont know all that you did wrong and I dont want to hurt you by telling you . Havent I hurt you enough . For gosh sakes tell me . The person who has hurt me with a doesnt want to hurt me anymore. Maybe she is also telling me she is not interested in repairing.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=013608<p>Sorry,I don't know how to link but this thread is very interesting.<p>take care.

Does a ws ever have the same feelings about kids as I do? I talk with my kids about whats going on with ws and it breaks my heart, to know that I had a hand in destroying a life that they have come to know and believe in . Ws takes kids out to dinner buys them alot of gifts and seems to try to have a good time as if nothing has really happened.

CB,<p>De-ni-al! I'm telling ya. If she refuses to believe that she is responsible for the misery you and the dk's are going thru, then she can sleep at night. Kind of like closing your eyes real tight and if you can't see the monster, it isn't really there. And if she keeps them distracted with bright lights and gifts, they wouldn't really have time to share their confusion, would they?<p>I feel the heartbreak in your words and am sorry for your pain.