I have been reading in several different forums since Tuesday (Nov 13) and have not yet figured out where or if I might be welcome anywhere in particular, so I thought I would start here.<p>For my husband and I, I am the one who had an affair. So if most people here are the betrayed ones, maybe I won't be welcomed. I am doing everything I can to help put our pieces back together though, and have been searching on the internet for quite some time now.<p>Before going further into what triggered my infidelity... and what helped me overcome and turn back to my spouse, I will wait to see if I should find some other place to post...

Bellea,
WS and BS all welcomed. If you and H have decided to reconcile, the recovery forum is a pretty supportive place. If you're still in question about that, this is a good forum. It's pretty loose..no hard and fast rules, although reading the MB principles will help all of it make more sense.
So, aloha!
T

MB principles? I read the Basic Concepts all the way through today (YIKES it's long) and I have started figuring out what some of the abbreviations are... MC, marriage counselor (?); WS wayward spouse; BS betrayed spouse; OW or OM other woman or man; LB Love Busters; A Affair; but there are still a few I haven't figured out. Could you help me?
IC
PA
OS
WH
EA
fog

Welcome Bellea<p>I will try to help with some.<p>IC indiviual counelor
PA Physical Affair
EA emotional Affair
WH Wayward Husband
WW WayWard Wife
WS Wayward Spouse
M Marriage
H Husband
W Wife
S Son
MIL mother in law
fog_ is the state that the WS is in while the A is in progress and after. Untill they totally commit to M<p>Hope this helps not to sure what OS is<p>Get the book SAA from this site and read it. You and your H<p>Use Plan A to work on you. <p>Stay strong and come here to vent.<p>You are welcome here and we do want to hear from WS<p>
SLH

Thanks for your help SLH. My husband was getting ready to go to bed, and came over to say goodnight, and saw the abbreviations, he thinks the OS might be Other Spouse? (As in, the OW's or OM's spouse..?) <p>Thank you for welcoming me here. Out of all the forums I have been in, this one seems to feel right? But I had not read any in the Recovery forum yet. I will look there also.<p>Through reading all the basic concepts today, and having done a little self analysis as I have gone along, I think we have been in "plan A" for a little while now, without realizing it. (meaning, I had not read the book, or found this site, but having applied Christian ethics brought us there.)<p>I had definitely gone through to the withdrawal stage when I had my affair... only, I never felt quite "right" calling what I went through, an affair. I refer to it as my "temporary insanity wild one night stands, what on EARTH was I THINKING" stage.<p>When I look back to it now, I get totally repulsed. I agree, it is like an addiction. It did take me some time to completely break away, and get out from under its grip, but I did it.<p>I struggled as a Christian, and I know that God was a huge factor in pulling me back to Him. Somebody told me back a long time ago, that God DOES fight for His children, and when we are dangerously close to getting to.... that point where we can't be reached anymore... He makes an attempt to pull us back. He did THANK YOU GOD! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] for real, in a very forceful, strong way. And I genuinely praise God for being rescued.<p>I hope I haven't gone on too much... but my faith in God is very important to me, and very real.

Hi Bellea,<p>Welcome. It is good that you have been doing your "Homework." [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] Yes, the info is long, but it's important. It probably bears reading again.
There are also two especially important books for you to read. They are Surviving an Affair and His Needs, Her Needs. Both are available through the bookstore at this site or at a commercial bookstore. I found mine at a Christian bookstore. Sometimes regular stores do not carry them.<p>As you read and post here, most of the discussion will revolve around our attempts to apply the MB concepts to our situations. When you have time, also read the articles and questions and answers sections here.<p>You will find quite a few WS here in various stages of their relationships. Weekends are very slow, so don't be discouraged. You can "bump" your post so that more people can see it by simply adding a reply with "bump" or a ^ symbol.<p>Now the abbreviations ( Regulars, please correct if I am mistaken.)<p>IC - individual counselor as opposed to
marriage counselor
PA - physical affair, a sexual relationship
OS - other son, child of WS with OP;
sometimes used for spouse of the OM or OW
(also referred collectively as OP, other
person) or OP's son
WH - wayward husband
EA - emotional affair, has not progressed to
physical affair (BYW, EAs are as devastating
to marriages as PAs are, sometimes more so,
especially for female BS.)
fog - the state of mind of the WS while
involved in the affair, characterized
by "soulmate" characterization of OP, "I
love you , but am not in love with you"
feelings toward the BS, "Our marriage was a
mistake.", separation to "find myself"
stage, possibly lying to BS about
activities, blaming BS for causing WS to
have the A, etc. BS has to be patient and
wait out this stage and wait for A to die.<p>I'm sure you will hear from others soon. If you feel comfortable doing so, share enough of your story that we can understand your situation better and be of more help.<p>BYW, I read and post here because my DIL (daughter-in-law) is the WS, and I need help dealing with the effect her A has had on our family, especially my S (son) and GS (grandson).
People are very helpful here.<p>Keep posting,<p>Estes<p>[ November 17, 2001: Message edited by: Estes49 ]</p>

Just read the post you made while I was working on the other one. You will find many Christians here. Faith keeps a lot of us going.<p>God will forgive you, so accept His grace and get to work forgiving yourself and learning how to get through your withdrawal and your husband's trauma from the A. It will take awhile, but you can do it.<p>Estes

Hi, <p>This might help, it is the one of the general welcome packages along with the acronyms. <p>Welcome package: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/009007.html <p>Acronyms: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000557.html <p>Other tools offered here are the phone counseling sessions handled by Steve Harley and Jennifer. <p>Hope this info is helpful. It is good to see someone work towards recovery. This is not always an easy thing for many to have an A. With time, patience and admitting when you did commit an error. <p>Take Care,
L.

Thank you Estes for your reply!!<p>I have read several of the other articles, questions and answers, and I am nowhere near finished, but it's amazing what an insight the material I have read has given.<p>The reason I refer to my... waywardness as "wild time" is because it wasn't simply a matter of being attracted to someone else, and it turning into a physical fling. I had been very unhappy for many years, and had been struggling to "make" our marriage work, even at times when my husband seemed like he didn't care. He would say "I love you" but his actions didn't prove it. And I became indifferent. After a while, it was just going through the motions, and a numbness that it didn't really matter.<p>Then in January of 1998, I discovered the internet. And my self-esteem went UP, because I was getting attention that I craved from my husband, from people I didn't know other than through the computer. I went through the phases of learning what "cybersex" was... what a joke. Then the ultimate happened, one of the men I "chatted" with propositioned me. I didn't know what to do! It was thrilling and it was exciting and I had made friends with other ladies who "cheated" and approved and even told me I should. Unfortunately, I listened to them. My first indiscretion was in September 1998. Afterwards when I returned home (I had spent the weekend with my cousin as far as my husband thought) I suddenly realized what I had done and was very upset, even in shock, and swore it would never happen again. I even talked with my pastor about it, and he told me I shouldn't tell my husband, that it would only cause him pain, when I had decided it was not going any further I shouldn't do that. Now I wish I had gone straight to him.<p>Several months later, after time had passed enough that the sting and pain of how I felt afterwards had gone by, I was struggling again, wanting desparately my husband to pay some attention to me. I had gotten some reading material from my pastor, and had decided to put it in action. I was so excited, this was going to work. A romantic get away for just the two of us... ... He balked on me. I was crushed. I was also livid. And I wanted to hurt him as much as I was hurting. Boy, what a wrong direction did I take!<p>This is when the "wild time" set in. I started setting up meetings with men I barely knew. All in all, there were several men from February '99 til November '99. The week after my 37th birthday that November, I told my H after having had some amazing revealings from God through other faithful Christians. The part that has worried me, that I have read in so many of the articles on this site, that you should be completely radically honest.... I was attempting, trying to tell my H what had been going on, and before I could even finish, he became so angry, and said if I had done more than what I had already said, he could not forgive me... he really scared me, so I didn't end up telling him ALL... and that worries me. He knows I cheated. But not how much? I just worry about the fact that I have been too scared to finish telling him there was more.... We have healed so much already. It's been so long and I have been faithful now, what might happen if he were to find out there were more than he originally thought?<p> It shames me to think of what happened. It makes me literally sick to my stomach. It will NEVER happen ever again. Over the last few months, I have started having genuine loving feelings towards my spouse again. And it is feels so good to be able to say that!!<p>We have a long way to go, but at least we ARE on the road to recovery.<p>[ November 18, 2001: Message edited by: Bellea ]</p>

Also, I have questions as to what constitutes an emotional affair? Yes, I guess I may be victim to that too... *sigh* But I want to understand more about it first.<p>Would depending on ANYONE other than my H be considered an emotional affair? Yes, I did form a bonding friendship with a male friend online, and yes, I love him dearly, we have even met! Our families have become good friends! FAMILIES, spouses, children, and parents included! But, it's totally different. We have never been "intimate" and will never be! He has simply been there for me in times when my H wasn't.<p>I consider not only him, but his wife too, dear friends, people I can talk to and who know my H and I have had troubled times. There have been jokes made by his wife referring to me as his "girlfriend" and my husband has referred to him as my "boyfriend" and I think early on my husband was truly jealous and maybe even suspicious. But over time, I think it's been proved that we are simply dear friends.<p>Do you think I am fooling myself? Is this a danger that I am not aware of?

Definitely a danger to keep up the male friendship. Especially if bopyfriend jokes are going around! Keeping reading the info on website and read His Needs/ Her Needs. The whole premise is that your H should be the one to turn to, not another man. Otherwise you will fall in love with the other man and an affair will start. That's how alot of affairs start. The process is very clear in the MB material. Spend some time filling out the EN, LB questionaires etc. with your husband and take some time making your marriage the very best it can be! You will find out that if you and your husband put in the time, then you can have an even better marraige than before and get all your needs met by your H without needing someone else. Wouldn't that be great! When you read all the material, you can also get your questions answered by people on the recovery board, who are trying to implement the same plans that you are. Good Luck! K

I was afraid I might get responses like that.. But now something you said, made me think: Spending more time with H. Yes, I do, and as I said, the last couple of months have been SOO much better. And as we have grown closer, my friend has backed off. He understands we need this time for ourselves, and that I need him less since H is coming around.<p>Okay, I guess if I am going to be honest, I have to be honest with myself right.. Maybe in the beginning, when we first became friends online, I probably did put too much emotional reliance on him. Because yes, I came to depend on him completely. But as our friendship has matured, we have realized there are borders we cannot and will not cross. And he's been very supportive and happy for me that H is starting to show me the attention I need. <p>Last item... we only get the chance to chat or talk about once a week now. He and his family live in England, I live in the southeast US. Any chance this extra information changes things?

Bellea,<p>I'm glad to see that you have gotten some good responses.<p>OK, you may not want to hear this, but the new info does not change the basic problem with your male friend. An EA is one in which you depend on a person other than your spouse to fill at least some of your important emotional needs. It is as much of an affair as a physical one because
your sharing ENs with him diverts emotional energy away from your relationship with your H. ENs are being filled. It's just that SF is not one of them. The dynamics are the same; you seek out someone besides your spouse to fill needs that he/she should be filling. A lot of people think that an A is not an A unless sex is involved. Not true.<p>If you have read and understand people's basic needs (as set forth in His Needs, Her Needs) you know that we all have some needs that are more critical to us than others. Your H is not meeting some of yours. I'd bet that the friend IS fulfilling some of those needs that are critical for you. Is that true? <p>Listen to 2BMOMOF4. If you do not carefully evaluate your relationship with your friend, there is a huge chance that you will weaken, given that you and your H have not yet worked through your needs fulfillment for each other yet. I suggest that any contact with your friend or his family be initiated only by your H. I know it will hurt, but you really should avoid all contact between just the two of you.<p>Your unhappiness with not having your ENs met by your husband is totally understandable. That in itself is very hurtful. Try to be totally honest with him about which needs - be very specific- you need to have met by him. <p>I just thought of a really good book whose exact title I don't remember right now. It's The Five Languages of Love, or close. Check your Christian bookstore. It explains that we have different ways of interpreting what is love. For example, your H may be really good at deeds of service. He may think that it is obvious that he loves you because he readily gives his time to solve problems around the house. But he is lousy about hugging you and listening to you talk about your inner feelings. He does love you, but doesn't express it in the love language, say affection, that you need. <p>Talk, talk, talk to your husband. Does he really understand how desperate you have become? Have you talked to him in terms of ENs? Do you know his? Find out what love language he speaks. Avoid contact with your friend, even online.<p>I'm so glad you came here. <p>Estes

I know everyone is concerned about my friendship with my friend overseas, and I will talk to my husband about that. Promise.<p>There is one item that I guess got overlooked, or was (hopefully?) not thought to be as important. But it is also what troubles me the most. The fact that yes, I have confessed to my husband, but during the confession, he became so angry that I didn't finish it, and he is not aware that there were more ...indiscretions... than he thought.<p>Can I let go of this? Should I try to find some way to tell him? I have been faithful to him alone for a long time now, and have no desire to cheat ever again. This is very troubling to me.
Thanks for whatever help you can provide.

Will anyone respond to this last question?<p>I know someone told me not to get disheartened over the weekend, because not many posted. But it sure seems like there were LOTS. Do you generally overlook New people that much?

Hello, bellea,<p>I'm sorry, but I do not have direct experience with your H's anger situation. <p>Do you mean physical anger? Did he threaten you? Do he yell at you? Did he clam up and simmer in his anger? Did he get up and walk out? Refuse to talk? Let us know so we can be more help.<p>For now, be honest about anything he asks (unless he has threatened to harm you). Have you read Harley's suggestions about this?<p>Please don't be discouraged by the weekend response. Even for MB weekends, it was a slow one.<p>Just bump if you end up at the bottom of the page.<p>Estes

Thanks Estes, for being here, and keep on encouraging me.<p>As far as his anger, My husband's anger is an odd thing. Basically, he is a quiet man whose anger builds up and eventually explodes. He does not get "violent" or, physically hit me, but his words cut like a knife. Always have. When I first started off telling him, the reason was because he had asked me why I had been crying, and unfortunately he knew I had been to see our preacher, because we met on the road. AGH! So I was totally and completely honest. He was really quiet at first. Then, it just all came out. The loud bursts of angry words... the "how could you have done this to me" and he practically stopped me in mid sentence, and said "If you ever did more than that, I could never forgive you even if it was my fault".... that's what scared me. Plus the look of hatred in his eyes. Cuz, somewhere on some deeper level, I didn't want to admit it at the time, but I DO love him.<p>Then when he calmed down, he started his apologizing and crying, because it started all coming back to him, all the times I had begged him to help me make this work ... and that's when I had to tell him it wasn't his fault, I was the one who ultimately made the decision to be unfaithful... And yes, I DO feel that way now, but honestly, at that moment, I did want to blame him.<p>So, the rest has just never come out. Yes, if he were to ask me, I would tell him. It would kill me but I would. The one thing I have on my side now, is that I HAVE been FAITHFUL ever since, and I will continue to be faithful.

OK, good, I was worried about the possibility of violence.<p>Things are bad, but not unsalvageable. Your H's anger and his comments are to be expected and are typical of what most BS say. BS feel and say they can never forgive WS, but that is not necessarily true forever - even though it IS how they feel at the time. This takes a long, long time to resolve.<p>According to the Harleys, the whole truth will eventually need to come out for H to learn to trust you again. Maybe others can advise you on how to handle it, whether to wait awhile or get it over with ASAP. <p>I know that one of the things that was/is torturing to my son (BS) was that everytime he began to feel more calm and hopeful and began to trust a little, he was knocked back down by yet another discovery about what his wife was hiding from him. I also know that the continuation of lying may actually have taken a greater toll on the relationship than the affair itself. <p>So think very carefully about what you will do. It will be awfully hard for you to tell him, but it may be better now than later. If he gets the truth in bits and pieces, given his personality as you describe it, he may come to believe that another blow is always just around the corner and there will never be any trust.<p>In the meantime, keep proving to him that you are worthy to trust. Let him know your activities, real and virtual, your schedule, your friends; spend lots of time with him; be an open book. Keep meeting his ENs as best you can. Reassure him by your actions. I suspect that he is not the type to want to talk about the A.<p>About your H - He is going to have a hard time getting through this if he keeps his feelings bottled in. He is probably feeling fear, anger, dispair, the whole bag of BS feelings. These feelings have the potential of dwstroying him and your chance for recovery if not dealt with. He can't just push them inside and not come to terms with them. He needs to understand that they are valid and that he can work throught them.<p>I also worry about the possibility of his becoming ill, developing clinical depression. I've read that anger turned inward really increases the danger of this. Are you communicating well enough to urge him to see a psychological counselor? Maybe go with him to the C? Or your family doctor?<p>Try to have courage, bellea. The more I think about it, I think you are going to have to find the strength to tell your H everything and probably the sooner the better.<p>Take care, Estes

One more thing. Be sure to validate his feelings when you do talk. He has been grievously wounded. Continue to accept responsiblity for your choices. <p>"Yes, I did this. It was wrong. I am very sorry for what I have done and for the pain my actions have caused you. Please forgive me. I love you and want to help you learn to trust me again."

"I really do understand why you feel this way and how much it hurts. I promise to do my part to make sure my actions do not cause you to feel this way again."<p>Just some suggestions,
Estes

Me again [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I just reread your earlier post that indicted your H knows you are with MB (the acronyms). GREAT!! Is he receptive to reading and learning? There is SO much to help him here. Don't know that he would want to post, but there is so much good stuff to read and let him know he is not alone and that you can work through this.<p>I feel better now! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]