Hello to all of you fine ladies out there! Just to give you a short background on me, I am a young BS, 29, good looking, recently divorced guy back on the dreaded dating scene again. My question is: Please tell me what you are looking for in a guy? i.e. for long term relationships! <p>I have been on 3 dates since my divorce and each date has gone well, but it seems like the ladies are looking for someone other than who I really am! I am good looking, honest, sincere, caring, decent guy and it seems like many ladies out there are looking for the BAD GUYS. Do you ladies still like to be treated well in relationships or is what I am seeing out there a sign of the times in which many ladies don't appreciate being treated with respect! I would like to hear for everyone of you fine ladies out there! <p>THANK YOU!<p>Bryan [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Bryan,<p>I am not one of your peers, but I still consider myself good-looking, fun, adventuresome, etc., etc.<p>My opinion about what is important has definitely changed since I was married at 25. I was kind of a free, independent person back then. I felt like I could do or be anything I wanted. I felt I could make my love relationship work--tho I knew there was serious flaws. I was looking for a sexy, good-looking man who had to be smart and have lots of potential. I wanted someone that was a challenge--because it meant that I was worth it. I met him, and we were madly in love. However, he also had a drinking problem, issues with women, he was unfaithful to his then current relationship--and I didn't find that out until we had been living together for 6 months. He could be charming, loving, concerned and show lots of affection. He made me feel loved. Well, when the newness wore off, he would drink and become a mean SOB. We would go through episodes where he was incredibly cruel. After that period of time was over--he would be nice again. That occured before our marriage and continued for 25 years. <p>To get to the point....what I would look for now.<p>1. A stable personality. No drinking problems, no anger problems....a solid self-concept.
2. Someone who is concerned about the people they love AND SHOW IT.
3. Someone who can express empathy for another.
4. Someonw who has a good sense of humor---and doesn't get angry over every little thing.
5. Someone who makes a good enough salary to support a family.
6. Someone with a good work ethic--but who also values their family time.
7. Someone who is able to give as well as receive love.
8. Someone who is honest, kind, and has good moral values.
9. Someone who is a good example and lives it for their children.
10. Someone who values the importance of family.<p>I guess I could go on....you probably want to hear from someone a lot younger. But now, I don't think I would care about looks near as much as I did back then. I would really want someone who is able to love honestly and makes a commitment. Oh well....Hope you find what you are looking for!!

apossitivebryan<p>Hello, well I am also not one of your peers. I am two years older than miserynmissouri. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>My husband and I are in recovery. I'm still after nearly 18 years of marriage, madly in love with this man. I can't fathom being in the position you are in and hope that reality never comes to me. But,since you asked, here goes...<p>1. I would want someone who is spiritual on the same page as I am.
2. A man who actually can relate his feelings about anything along with his deepest thoughts.
3. Someone who likes to have fun and laugh.
4. Someone who shares the same interest as I do, or who is willing to show their love by doing some activities that interest me and not necessarily his.
5. A man who could would read His Needs, Her Needs and agree with Harley and his concepts. Also the "Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman.
6. Someone who has a deep family commitment.
7. Someone who looks me in the eye when we speak to one another and who looks at me when we are dancing to a fast song.
8. Hard working with personal ethics.
9. Someone who is kind and considerate.<p>I think we all have a little different list. Looks would not be as important to me today as they were when I was your age. The immediate attraction between two people is only based on looks and chemistry. The stuff Harley talks about. I would be looking for more than that now. If that attraction came immediately with all the other things, then great. If not, it wouldn't stop me from dating and exploring the possibility of a relationship with someone.<p>The most important thing is for someone to be real. To really be themselves. I think Bryan you need to be less concerned about what ladies are looking for and be yourself. One who grows and learns from life's experiences. <p>I bet you find when you quit looking you'll find that one lady that is perfect for you. I had just come off a divorce when I met my current husband. I wasn't looking and honestly thought he'd be no more than a one or two night adventure. We have been together every day since that day in 1982. LD <p>Don't search for her and just be yourself. Continue to learn and grow. You'll be fine and you'll do just fine.

I am 33 and I have to agree the with list that she posted. I married a man who made me feel safe and protected while at the same time giving me the space to be me. I am an athletic trainer who spends alot of time in locker rooms with members of the opposite sex and had many boyfriends who were threatened by that, so when he trusted me, that meant a lot. He made me laugh, and was kind. He was exciting and made my life sparkle. I married him and had 2 kids with him and planned on spending my life with him until he decided that I was not enough for him. So I guess what I am looking for in a guy is someone who will be able to do all the things he did and understand the scars that his betrayal has left on my life.

"IF" I was looking, which I'm not cause Harley suggests we wait until we are emotionally healed from our previous relationship, first and foremost I'd want someone who doesn't CHEAT!<p>Jo

I too am up there in the older age bracket and looks are still important to me. So many 50+ men are gray, bald and flabby. I like a man who takes care of himself, does not have addiction problems, is open and honest, isn't afraid to be wrong and has the ability to work through problems. I also like a guy who has a sense of humor but can be serious when needed. I love the playfulness that men have as part of their masculinity but not childish irresponsiblity. I like a guy who listens. Men can zone out and not focus in on what is really being said. Of course, a big selling point is a man who can feel his feelings and not try to ignore how he feels or how others feel.<p>Is there such a guy<p>TW

positivebryan,
I am curious as to how your dates have indicated to you that they want the "bad guys".

Mikkey..<p>Thank You all for your responses! I appreciate it! <p>To answer your question Mikkey, The first girl that I dated just got out of a 2 year relationship and we dated for about 2 months. Things were going fine until one day when she wrote to me saying that she found another guy that she was attracted too and then told me that she wanted only to be friends and that she didn't want to date me anymore. In her letter, she said that she admired me and was very attracted to me, but she still didn't want to date me anymore. She said, "He will probably not treat me as well as you, but I felt the spark with him!" In other words, she told me that he most likely wouldn't treat her as well as I treated her, but she was willing to give me up for him anyway! I felt bad intially, but I feel better now! Come to find out, The new guy was just out for sex and thats it! There relationship lasted 3 weeks! GO FIGURE! I know that I need to stop searching for Ms. Right, but I guess for some reason, I am not viewed as a CHALLENGE to them for some reason! I have no baggage and I am a honest, caring, decent, chemical free guy looking for that special person!<p>Take Care<p>Bryan [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Bryan,<p>As a fellow Minnesotan and even somewhat close to your age, perhaps I can provide you with some insight. <p>**I am a BS so first and foremost I would be looking for someone who would have patience to help me through all the triggers that my WS put me through. (pagers and cells attached to the belt are a definate no-no!!)<p>**I would be looking for someone who was not a WS!<p>**I would be looking for someone who would want to take things S-L-O-W-L-Y in a relationship!<p>**I would be looking for someone who doesn't talk about their ex-spouse non-stop, but yet opens up about the failed marriage when asked about it.<p>**Total honesty is extremely important, as is a sense of humor and someone who likes to laugh alot.<p>**I would be looking for someone who doesn't work much more than 40 hours per week and can put a family first and foremost, and yes, that means even before work.<p>**I would look for someone who is independent and can and does do things for himself, by himself. <p>**I would look for someone who is not afraid to open up completely and is not afraid to make himself vulnerable.<p>**I would look for a man who says what is on his mind, I don't like people who play games. I hate to be left guessing what someone is thinking.<p>**I would also look for a man who is not selfish and does not always think of himself first!<p>That should be good for a start!! Good luck to you!<p>[ November 17, 2001: Message edited by: Wifeofcop ]</p>

wifeofcop...<p>Points well taken! One question that I have for you is about the point of being vulnerable. When I am dating someone new, I never trash talk about my ex, I never bring up my ex unless they bring it up first and I am very willing to be totally honest about my whole situation, but it seems like when I try to open up and be vulnerable, it isn't well received! It seems like they are reacting to it as a sign of weakness in a way. <p>Especially if I am dating a single girl that has never been married! They have NO idea of what it feels like to be a betrayed spouse in a relationship. I know that you can relate!<p>What city do you live in?? Are you loving the 70 degree weather that we are having in November! ITS TRULY AWESOME! <p>Take Care!<p>Bryan [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Bryan----I think you need to re-examine the girls you are attracted to. They seem to have major baggage and anyone that admits she is involved with someone that does not treat her well definitely is looking for something different than what you are looking for. Where do you meet women? Do they have intact families of origin? I think Tomstock had some comments on one of his threads (Morals and Characters) that had addressed some of these issues and I wonder about a women that gets sexually involved with a man who has no desire to commit.<p>Maybe re-examining what you are looking for in a women would be helpful for you now that you are in this relationshipless state.<p>God Bless. If you are as good as you say you are, you WILL find the right gal. Be patient. Some things take time and the need to count the cost. I never did that in my life but am learning its value and also learning how to do it.<p>TW

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by positivebryan:
[QB]wifeofcop...One question that I have for you is about the point of being vulnerable. When I am dating someone new, I never trash talk about my ex, I never bring up my ex unless they bring it up first and I am very willing to be totally honest about my whole situation, but it seems like when I try to open up and be vulnerable, it isn't well received! It seems like they are reacting to it as a sign of weakness in a way.
<hr></blockquote><p>Personally, I think you need to have the timing thing down when you open up and be vulnerable. I don't know firsthand because I haven't been dating, but I would think that it has to happen at a point when you know enough about the person you are dating that you feel somewhat safe, and at a time when you feel that perhaps the relationship will last for awhile...definately not something to do on the second or third date!<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>[QB]Especially if I am dating a single girl that has never been married! They have NO idea of what it feels like to be a betrayed spouse in a relationship. I know that you can relate!<hr></blockquote><p>Unfortunately I can relate and after thinking about it for a long time, I don't think I'll date a man who has never been married--I just think that no matter how hard a never married person would try, they could never even begin to grasp what us BS's have gone through, and I don't think they could be patient enough to get us through all the triggers we have thanks to our WS's. Ideally, when I start dating I think I would like to date a person who has been a BS.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>[QB]What city do you live in?? Are you loving the 70 degree weather that we are having in November! ITS TRULY AWESOME! <hr></blockquote><p>Yeah, the weather is awesome to say the least!! I even mowed the lawn yesterday, I'll bet that won't happen at this time of November next year! All the weather people said it was going to be cold today, and they were wrong, and I am glad!! It is hard to get in the X-Mas spirit though without snow or cold weather BUT I am not complaining! I live about 30 minutes north of St. Paul. <p>Here's a few questions for you that you can answer to just yourself: how long have you been divorced? Have you done all the self examination that is necessary before you date? Do you feel you are ready to date? Maybe things aren't working out date wise because you are not ready and your dates are picking up on this...just a thought.<p>[ November 18, 2001: Message edited by: Wifeofcop ]</p>

Tossed..<p>Thank You for your kind words! I know that I will find the right girl in time and I now have a very patient frame of mind. I am not trying to date everyone anymore like I did in the past. I am relaxing and taking the time for myself to recover from the divorce, which is needed! The way that I look at this situation is, I am a very unique person and I know there is a special girl out there who will appreciate the kind of guy that I am! <p>Take Care!<p>Bryan [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Wife..<p>Thanks again! Your questions about the length of time since my divorce and whether I am ready to date again are valid points. At this point, I have only been divorce for 2 months and separated for 5 months! We had no children in the marriage, so the divorce was very simple and painless! THANK GOD! <p>A few months ago, I thought I was ready to date, but now I think I need to wait for awhile because even though I don't show it on the outside, I have alot of pain on the inside from the affair. <p>I also agree with your point about dating people who have been BS. I TOTALLY AGREE! If you haven't been a BS, you have no idea of the pain and agony you go through to save your marriage. It is horrible! <p>In the future, I would ideally want to find someone who was a BS too. I know that I will marry again in the future and hopefully have children, but if I had to live through an affair again, especially with children, I don't know if I could make it through the pain again! This is why my standards are very high now then they have been in the past and I am not settling for anything less.<p>Would you tell me a brief summary of your situation? I would appreciate it!<p>Thank You!<p>Take Care<p>Bryan [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Samantha..<p>Thanks for your message. I hear many people making reference to Harley's views on the length of time your should wait after a divorce to begin dating again! Do you have any information on this topic? Thanks!<p>Bryan [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by positivebryan:
[QB]Would you tell me a brief summary of your situation? I would appreciate it!<hr></blockquote><p>There's nothing brief about it but I'll try...H. took a new job 01/00 which required him to work many evenings. Our marriage went downhill when he took that job. I was working part time and when he got his job he told me I had to cut back to one day a week. We have three young daughters and don't believe in shuffling them off to daycare unless totally necessary. I wasn't happy being home all the time and hardly ever seeing him. I told him in June of 2000 that something was wrong with "us" and we needed counseling--he declined. In July I got the "love you but not in love with you" speech and I began counseling with Harley and posting here. Harley said affair right away but I refused to believe it and H. said it was not the case. H. said he was suffering from depression and I bought it...as a matter of fact I bought every book on depression that I could, as well as every Harley book and Dr. Phil book out there. I was determined to save my marriage and worked extremely hard at it. Things got steadily worse and H. became verbally abusive the little bit he was home. <p>He finally came clean about his affair in Jan. of this year. I tried to kick him out but he wouldn't leave. From January through June he committed and uncomitted to our marriage three different times. It was really hard to go through. Supposedly OW was job transferred to the east coast last March but I have no proof. We coasted along almost all summer and in August I caught him in another round of lies concerning his whereabouts late at night and I finally talked him into moving out, which he did on 09/01.<p>We have been trying to be agreeable on the divorce paperwork so we can forego the attorney fees. There is alot of paperwork because we have three children (7, 5.5, and 2.5). H. said he will be in charge of it all and so far he is dragging his feet on it.<p>I noticed your reply to Samantha and want to tell you that there are quite a few topics on the Divorcing Forum that talk about when to start dating. The consensus is pretty much one year. I personally think it depends on how long it took your marriage to unravel...if you divorced with record speed I would think you'd probably need to wait the entire year before you have processed the whole tragedy, but if it all unraveled slowly and you were able to digest it all as it happened, you may feel ready sooner. That is just my opinion.<p>Good luck to you!

Wife...<p>Thank You! The dreaded "I love you, but I am not in love with you" speech is a KILLER! I think affairs are totally wrong in every aspect, but if people choose to get involved in an affair and they have children, it makes me ill just to think about it! What kind of a person decides to give up their spouse and kids for a fling????? I will never understand this garbage! I too did everything I could to keep the marriage together and on the right path. To be totally blunt about my marriage, I think my wife just wanted someone to pay the bills and pay off HER car and HER student loans! Maybe she did love me like she said she did, but actions speak louder than words!!<p>I wish you the best! Take Care<p>Bryan

Bry,
I just wanna slap the first guy (and yeah, I'm pretty sure it was a GUY) who said 'I love you but...' That's the one my H used on me when he left last year. Still pisses me off.<p>I can't help but wonder what age these ladies are. I know you are still young but you have some real 'life experience' that gives you a different perspective on relationships. <p>Don't despair. There is someone out there. It's like picking apples, gotta keep looking for the tasty ones. You are making a real life decision here, so shop around and try on a few until you get the right fit. It will be worth it.

Diddallas..<p>Thanks for your kind words! These girls that I am dating are between 24-28! Even at 29, I have the relationship maturity of a 50 year old guy! Which is good in a way because I am very selective in the dating process. <p>Take Care!<p>Bryan [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Thanks Much!