Whew....<p>I thought we were kind of making progress...my W (WS) came home in August after a 5 month separation. We began counseling together in Sept. <p>Our recovery was slow...I have posted about that before...but I thought we were making some headway. The last few weeks, though have been tough...still not much affection...it seemed that she was blocked and we could go no further.<p>Had our 6th or 7th counseling session last nite. And she told the C and me that she didn't seem to have her heart in it. She was still affected by the pre A stuff she felt about herself. Wanting to be independent, wanting to do something else with her life/job etc...although she has a job that many would envy. She said it has nothing to do with anyone else...C believes that and so do I...<p>But now what.<p>W tells me she loves me, that I am and have been a wonderful husband, but that the issues are with her. She says not to give up yet, that she isn't saying she wants a divorce. Says for me to hang in there and don't bail out on her...<p>But now I don't know what to do. Hearing this was devastating...it took me back to d-day....<p>After a year of trying to figure this out, going thru her A, the end of the A and the 5 month separation, beginning of recovery (hopes up etc) and now this...I seem to be at a loss...<p>Do i give up? Walk away? Keep trying--if so how? What? I am just really confused, frustrated and sad....<p>E

Not being in recovery yet, myself, it's hard for me to offer advice. What I would say, based on what you shared, is not to give up. At ALL!<p>She tells you she loves you. She is asking that you don't give up on her and that she doesn't want a D. From where I'm standing, that's brilliant! It sounds like what she is going through has to do with *her* and not you. She is asking you for something;(EN?) asking that you hang in there, asking that you don't bail out on her, saying that you are and have been a wonderful husband. Again, it sounds great from where I'm standing. <p>You obviously love your W very much, and while I can understand this is a very trying time, you have to hang in there for her. It sounds like she really going through it at the moment, and so are you. You can do this. Look at what you've achieved so far! Well done to you, I say!<p>My H is in a similar boat. He moved out 3 weeks ago saying that he wanted to be independent, do things on his own again and figure himself. The best thing I can do/have done for him is give him time and space to do this. I have made it abundantly clear that I am here for him if he ever needs me, and now each day I receive either a phone call or email from him just wanting to talk about his day. The best Plan A I can give is in full effect and I'm seeing the results. <p>Be a safe harbour for her because you love her. Definitely hang in there!<p>We're here for you!
venusenvy

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Elad:
<strong>Whew....
Do i give up? Walk away? Keep trying--if so how? What? I am just really confused, frustrated and sad....<p>E</strong><hr></blockquote><p>No don't give up. Recovery from what I have read is a long long process. It takes time and more time. Go over to Recovery and ask your questions. i know there are some very old timers that check in here and there, that talk about how it is the 2 or 3 yr into recovery that when things seem to fall into place.<p>good luck. just keep doing one day at a time.

OK Elad - I'll trade you even up - my alien AND my two dogs for your W.<p>Hey, seriously - my W's still in a high geosyncronous orbit on the Mothership and your's appears to be in re-entry. I know it's frustrating, but take heart that at least she's on the way down and could be speaking without use of the translator.

Elad,
Never give up! Your W is being HONEST with you and the C. You said yourself that you believe her. I would have given anything for a little honesty from my H. Instead, he's running away. We're divorcing because he can't be honest. You've worked so hard. Don't give up when the recovery isn't happening as fast as you wanted. Your W is still there, asking you to hang in. Please do as she asks!! You're up for it. You just need a boost from your friends at MB.<p>BOOST! BOOST! BOOST! BOOST! BOOST!<p>MOM [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Thanks for the replies...and the boost [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I feel whipped, ya know?<p>After a year of all this and i feel like last night brought me right back to when this was all dumped on me on d-day....<p>As BSs, how much are we supposed to be able to handle...and why do we still stick with it? Love? Fear? What? <p>I guess I will just pick myself up and pull myself together and continue to try to work on this, but boy it get's hard and the tryin' gets harder with every turn.<p>I like country music and as Trace Adkins says:<p> "But all I can do, is all I can do and
I keep on tryin'
And all I can be is all I can be and
I keep on tryin'
There's always a mountain in front of me,
Seems I'm always climbin and
fallin and climbin
But I keep on tryin"<p>It never gets easy, does it?<p>E<p>[ November 20, 2001: Message edited by: Elad ]</p>

Elad,
You asked for experience [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] , you do know that may not be entirely reassuring?<p>Ok, I have heard exactly what your W is saying. Along with "I love you but I can't commit to you." (er what about the 16 years of marriage?) "I don't want a divorce but I can't live with you." " I need some space to think."<p>The good news is we've been in recovery 18 months. The bad news is it took 2+ years, multiple resumptions of the A, & 7 separations to get here.<p>Like the other posters, I think it is great that your W is going to counseling...as long as your C is pro-marriage. Also good that she says she loves you and that she is home.<p>It is possible she is waffling, fence-sitting, likely in contact with OP.<p>You can't make her do anything. I would encourage you to take this opportunity to Plan A your little heart out. Make it a personal challenge to be the best you can be, the Elad she loved enough to marry. If nothing else, you will then know that you gave it your best shot.<p>Best scenario--she is feeling guilt, remorse, pain for the A and is working on her healing and NOT in contact with OP. It does take time for a contrite WS to forgive themselves. And, even if they feel they are choosing the right path in restoring their marriage, there may be a longing or wondering about the path not chosen--which seems to be apparent in what she is saying. It may take awhile to sort that through as well--it's more of a mid-life crisis thing, which often includes an A.<p>Worst scenario--she is in contact and leaves again. You can continue to Plan A or B at that point, whichever seems the best course of action for you. But with more than 1 separation, household & perhaps emotional boundaries--not protecting the WS from natural consequences--are very important, even in Plan A.<p>As long as she is in the house, talk about the MB 4 rules of successful marriage--time, care, protection, POJA and their importance to the 2 of you. If she wants the marriage, those are the skills she will need to learn & employ. You do your part now if at all possible.<p>My H & I are an example of a happy, optimal outcome of a very bad situation. It can happen, but when it does, it takes time, patience, love...and after a point, both of you.

Elad--<p>Have you looked at midlife crisis stuff? It is not the greatest stuff to read as it seems we (BS) have to just "HANG" on until the crisis is over...but it seems like if we can be strong enough to stay the course...to hold on during all the ups and downs...that eventually the people who go through the crisis get to the other side...<p>...nothing easy or hopeful about it...just a long, hard journey...<p>The hopeful part is letting God do his work and us finding 'peace' in having the faith that he will do the work.

I just had this long post and lost it all, sigh.<p>Don't give up, your W is finally being honest. Too bad she couldn't do that before the A, huh? Just think about how you would have reacted then, and try to do the same thing now. <p>It also sounds like we are going through similar stuff. My H is definately more "pro-marriage", but he also just expects me to deal with whatever he decides.<p>If you figure it out, please share!!<p>HbH

Yeah, HbH, whoever figures it out first needs to share...<p>W & I talked again last nite. She swears this is not an OM thing--that it's her--and I believe her.<p>I told her that yesterday for the first time in the past year I felt like giving up. But I am not. She is going to have to walk away from me and what we have...<p>You know she really is the envy of so many people in our little part of the world.<p>She has a loving, generous, kind and dependable husband who has stuck by her for the past year of confusion, frustration, OM etc. Her H is her best friend who she can talk to about anything and loves her very much.<p>She has a great job that pays well that many others would LOVE to have. It is challenging and allows her to be creative and work with people she likes. She is well known where we live and admired by others for the competency she brings to her profession and for her charity work. <p>She can afford to wear designer clothes, she has a new car, new home, cleaning lady etc, etc, etc.<p>She has great friends who love her, lives near her family who love her and she loves etc etc etc <p>I just don't get it when she says she isn't happy and needs more or something else that is bigger or better...I just don't get it...I don't know why she is confused...<p>Oh well, I just keep tryin' & tryin' & tryin'<p>Big sigh---<p>Thanks for all your responses...<p>E

E,<p>If you're still looking, I replied on the Recovery forum before I read here.<p>Re-read what Lor has said.....very good advice from a true survivor. I admire her strength.

Elad, I'm reading a book "How to get what you want and want what you have", it seems to address the problem your W is having.<p>Until your W is happy with herself and has what she needs to look herself in the mirror and smile, then all the other stuff you mentioned doesn't mean diddly-squat.<p>Especially the material stuff - means nothing if you don't have peace from within.<p>HbH

HbH<p>Yeah, I know what you are saying and my eariler post was more vent than anything...<p>My W is familar withthe book and I'm pretty sure she has read it...<p>Thanks<p>E

Elad,
Ok, obviously you don't like or believe what I had to say. No problem.<p>My last advice to you: when actions & words of the WS are in conflict or confusing, believe the actions.

Whoa...Lor...<p>What gave you the impression I didn't like or believe what you said?<p>I certainly believe you based upon your experience and your scenario #2 (worst) prompted me to ask my W last nite about continued contact...that's when I received a vociferous no from her (Her words: "This is not about me and anyone else, it is about me and how I feel about myself."). I truly believe her when she sayd it is not an OM thing anymore.<p>Actually I am hopping that your first scenario (best) is more the case.<p>I think you may be very right when it comes to her longing or wondering about a path not chosen...<p>Please don't read my own frustration and confusion as not believing you or liking what you have to say.<p>I truly value ALL the opinions I receive here because I realize they were forged in a painful reality.<p>Thanks for posting, please don't bail out on me, I value what you have to say. <p>E

Elad,
Oops, that "last" sneaked onto my post--I didn't mean to imply I'd never post to you again. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] . I think I meant "over all" advice. Though I did feel ignored cuz {sniff} you kept talking to HBH, even when Vernon rather pointedly directed you back to my post. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] All is forgotten.<p>And...certainly my opinion on WS OP contact denial is colored by the fact my H vehemently denied his A for 8 months, I believed him--he looked straight into my eyes and before the A he was dreadful at lying. He learned. At 8 mos. he confessed. Then again vehemently denied contact for the next year "I would never do that to you!"...even when seen by my prayer partner that very day with the OW! So, WS denial doesn't mean much to me when they say they "aren't happy" or "need more" or "this isn't about HER, this is about me and what I need" (I heard that too).<p>Just keep in mind that lying to the BS is an integral part of most affairs. My H has told me that he lied so much (to both her & me) sometimes he himself isn't sure what the reality was. If your W's behavior indicates she is truthful and honest...you will know that after a time.<p>I actually hope I am wrong in your case. Being the voice of doom isn't my best thing.<p>Anyway, believe her, don't believe her...whichever, but either way, no lovebusters, which for a time may include not asking about contact.

Lor<p>Well, for now I am going to believe her becuz I really think she is telling the truth....but woe is me I s'pose if she ain't. I do stand warned, though...thanks [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Anyway, thanks for replying...<p>Like I said in my first post, this has just really gotten to me like it's d-day all over again...too much emotion and pain.<p>Ain't love grand? [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Take care...<p>E

This is just about me. OM has nothing to do with this. I've known that our relationship wasn't working for such a long time, and I know that I should have talked to you a long time ago. I need to find whats right for me. You are a great person. I don't hate you or dislike you -- my feelings have just changed. I don't know if I can ever get those feelings back. It would be so easy if I could just do that......<p>I could go on and on and on.....<p>And you could look at me and believe every word of it. I can be completely convincing. <p>Why do I do it? Many reasons....because I don't want to devastate the self-esteem of BS. Just falling out of love seems like an easier story to tell than "i found someone better". Because if I want OM to find a place in my life, I don't want BS to blame him for stealing me away. To keep BS on an even keel while I am making decisions...many reasons.<p>I would consider that they may be in contact.

I tend to agree. Either there is continued contact or very recent decision of no contact. Hope it's the latter. My H lied many times about contact.

Lexxxy...
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Why do I do it? Many reasons....because I don't want to devastate the self-esteem of BS. Just falling out of love seems like an easier story to tell than "i found someone better". Because if I want OM to find a place in my life, I don't want BS to blame him for stealing me away. To keep BS on an even keel while I am making decisions...many reasons. <hr></blockquote><p>Gee, thanks for thinking of our feelings. I'm a little raw on this topic right now...my H was so afraid to 'devastate' me 12 years ago, that he married me out of some sort of guilt (his words). So in exchange for a few months of pain and anguish, I have had to live a lie where I thought I was in a marriage with another person...that is until some tart came along that lifted his 'spirits' and he was 'alive' again...so much for his 'guilt' at devastating me...