lim,<p>Haven't heard from you in a while. How was turkey day? When you have a chance, please look over my recent thread "still waiting for papers". I'd be curious to hear your thoughts. You seem to have much insight.<p>sad dad

^^bump^^

HI SD- I HAVE been reading your posts this last wk- but I didnt write back as I was on my BIL's computer and didnt have enough time. We went to BIL's house for the wk and he owns a very upscale hair salon so my girls and I all got the 'works' and free shampoo and nail polish! How much are your W and you talking at night lately? Is it bare minimum conversation or does she still mention the D topic? I really have doubts about whether she has truly filed or not - why not call the courthouse and check or get on their website and look- ours let me find it just by typing in our last name. I just got done reading your Plan B letter- have you thought about giving to her sooner than in 2 months? What is her response when you mention selling your house? Have you listed it yet and chosen a realtor? lifeismessy

lim,<p>Good to hear from you. Nice to know you got some "pampering" last week.<p>I'll try to answer your question one at a time:<p>"How much are your W and you talking at night lately? Is it bare minimum conversation or does she still mention the D topic?"<p>We're talking quite a bit some nights, other nights we just do our own thing. No D talks or "us" talks at all. In fact she hasn't mentioned D since the day she told me she filed (11/4). <p>"I really have doubts about whether she has truly filed or not - why not call the courthouse and check or get on their website and look- ours let me find it just by typing in our last name."<p>I could do that, but doesn't the cancelled check tell me that she filed? I'll check it out anyway.<p>"I just got done reading your Plan B letter- have you thought about giving to her sooner than in 2 months?"<p>Can't plan B while we're still living together, right? It'll probably take 2 months to sell the house and close on it. <p>"What is her response when you mention selling your house?"<p>She agreed it's something we need to do, but it hasn't been discussed since I last brought it up (11/6).<p>"Have you listed it yet and chosen a realtor?"<p>No. We are planning to sell it ourselves. We need to have it appraised first.<p>Should I bring up why I haven't been served?<p>sad dad

Hi SD- I asked you those questions to get a picture of how deep in the fog your W still is. My answer is VERY VERY DEEP in there still. If she was so certain and so determined to get her D and sell the house she would be moving much more quickly and talking about those things regularly with you. If I were you I wouldnt ask about why you havent been served yet. But I would check into it at the courthouse. Its all a matter of public record. I suspect that your W is in denial to herself about what the results of her actions are- when she "WAKES UP" to what she is doing she is going to really be shocked I assure you. ( whether she follows thru with the D process or not)But anyway enough about her. Continue to talk to her but DONT bring up D or 'us' talks- it will only lead to her saying hurtful things to you and later on she wont even REMEMBER saying them but you WILL! So stick to the basic daily details of life when you talk to her. Do you relatives and inlaws know about her A? What is their reaction? Is she avoiding seeing them or talking to them on the phone? What about friends and neighbors? lifeismessy

lim,<p>"Continue to talk to her but DONT bring up D or 'us' talks- it will only lead to her saying hurtful things to you and later on she wont even REMEMBER saying them but you WILL! So stick to the basic daily details of life when you talk to her."<p>That's what I've been doing and will continue to do. She can bring up D if she wants to.<p>"Do you relatives and inlaws know about her A? What is their reaction? <p>My sisters know and support me no matter what happens. My MIL & SIL both asked her about A, she denied it (big surprise). My BIL's (her sister's H's) know and have been supportive of me.<p>"Is she avoiding seeing them or talking to them on the phone?"<p>She hasn't seen anyone from my family since May. She's avoided functions with my family. She doesn't avoid her family, but from what one of my BIL's told me, she doesn't talk to her family much about us either. He didn't know she filed and said neither did his W, who works with her and is her closest sister. My MIL called me last Thursday to wish me a happy Thanksgiving and said she regrets they wouldn't be seeing me. I thought that was odd under the circumstances. She might not know my W filed or may have just wanted to let me know she was thinking of me. It felt good, but I went to the bathroom and cried. I'm very close with my in-laws and losing them will hurt like hell. <p>What did you think of my plan B letter?<p>sad dad<p>[ November 26, 2001: Message edited by: sad dad ]</p>

SD- I just went back and re-read your Plan B letter. Its really excellent! However if it were me I would take out the part about when you say that the changes you have made have had no effect on your W- that could come across to her as too judgmental. And the changes may very well HAVE affected her though she wont admit that to you.
I say this to you because my H told me way INTO reconciliation that he noticed the plan A changes I had made in myself and admired them though but he worried that I was just doing them to get him back and would then 'drop it all'. OW had encouraged this line of thought with him. She kept telling him I would go back to my 'old ways' and also reconcile for just a few months with him then toss him out! He began to believe that over time. Shows how foggy he had become. My H was the same way about not admitting to his brother about what he was doing( and had done). His parents are both dead- in fact my MIL's death seemed to trigger the start of his depression which led to his A last year. My BIL is very sensitive and sweet and I often called him crying my guts out about what H was doing when all heck was breaking loose. I told my parents too- my mom favored reconciling with H whereas my dad preferred me to divorce him so they would argue about that! The fact that your W is avoiding relatives shows MORE denial on her part- I do believe that is positive in terms of eventual reconciliation because if her current plans were all the cat's meow she would be taking her OM to all your relatives holiday gatherings already!After all- why HIDE OM? Its because deep down they are guilty and in an addiction they claim that they 'dont know how to get out of." They figure they have done so much damage that there is no way to repair it so they just keep on going. Anyway! I think that your marriage still has a good shot at recovery because of what you tell me- I really do. But it could take some time.The emotional part of their affairs are a true addiction and take time to work thru. I was not a patient person till last year- but I think that was part of the lesson God was trying to teach me. lifeismessy

lim,<p>I don't need to worry about when I will be served anymore. I wasn't at work yesterday, called in sick. A co-worker told me the sheriff showed up to serve me the papers. I guess I can expect him today. I knew it was just a matter of time.<p>sad dad

lim,<p>Papers didn't arrive today. I guess tomorrow will be the day. I'll let you know more when I know more. My monicker really fits today. I knew it was coming, but a little bit of me hoped I was wrong. I guess I was in the "fog".<p>sad dad

sad dad - That sucks. <p>I'll pray for you; I don't know what else to do.<p>Don't you deserve better than this?<p>
Don't we all?<p>I'll pray for your strength as you wait. And for your wisdom and peace. <p>
Dan<p>P.S. what about your "B" letter? Will you still deliver it?

family man,<p>Despite the impending D, I still intend on sending the plan B letter. However, I can't send it until we sell the house and are no longer living together and that will probably be about 2 months. That sucks, but that's reality. <p>Alot could change in that time as I have a plan in place as to how to respond to being served (as advised by Steve Harley). I won't go into details at this time but will keep you posted as things develop.<p>sad dad

lim,<p>You know what my plan is once I'm served. Steve advised me what to do, and I'm not doubting him, just looking for reassurance. Is it the right thing to do? Please convince me that it is. I'm so unsure of everything right now. Thanks!<p>sad dad

SD- can you refresh my memory- what did Steve Harley advise you to do? Stall the process as much as possible? I vote for that because time is on your side. OM is probably trying to get your W to rush rush rush on the D papers. I am sorry to hear you will be getting the papers soon. I know how upsetting it is to be served. I was a complete emotional wreck the day I got served. I hope you can find some comfort during this difficult week. lifeismessy

lim,<p>Steve's advice was to contest her grounds (probably irrec. diff's) and counterfile on the grounds of adultery & mental cruelty. He said even if she admits to it to me, continue to counterfile to get it on record.<p>sad dad

lim,<p>Not served today either. The wait goes on.<p>sad dad

^bump^

Day 3, no papers. What's going on? Maybe the sheriff got lost!<p>sad dad

Hi SD- wow I cant believe that server hasnt found you yet!!!??? Have you been going from cave to cave? ( just kidding- I am watching too much MSNBC lately!)mine arrived in just 2 days from H filing. Why not call your lawyer to check into it or call the courthouse? It must drive you crazy waiting around for them. Have you thought about asking your attorney to file papers to make your W move out of the house before it sells? Seems like waiting for it to sell doing it yourself could put you thru too much emotional misery. Why not give her that Plan B letter sooner than after you sell the house? lifeismessy

lim,<p>I don't know why it took so long. My W may have waited awhile because ofwhat was going on with my Aunt dying a few weeks ago. But I still don't understand why he hasn't come back to my work since Monday. I wonder if my W knew he was coming on monday.<p>I haven't retained a lawyer yet, but have couple of calls in. I will be in for a tough couple of months waiting to sell the house, but I doubt there's much a lawyer can do about it.<p>I asked you before for reassurance that I'm doing the right thing by counterfiling. You seem to be so much more in tune with my situation than I am, experience is everything you know. <p>sad dad<p>[ November 29, 2001: Message edited by: sad dad ]</p>

Hi again SD- I suggest you retain an attorney right away- especially since you expect the papers very soon now.I know my attorney here in OHIO was going to kick H out the door for me by filing some paperwork a few wks after I received the D papers- I would have followed thru with that if H hadnt had a change of heart and cancelled the divorce action.There is no way I could have gone on for months living in the same house with him sleeping on the couch and being emotionally cold to me and still confiding in OW who was urging him on to break up our family. That is extreme emotional abuse in my opinion. I put up with it for about 6 wks and that was about my limit! I suggest forcing a show-down with your WS sooner than waiting for the house to sell. While I favor MB techniques most of the time- in your situation at this point I favor the Tough Love approach written about by James Dobson in Love Must Be Tough. I can tell you my H"s ears perked up considerably when I calmly mentioned to him that he better start looking for his own apartment ASAP as my lawyer was kicking him off the couch within a few weeks.He was under the impression he could camp out there thru-out the entire divorce process. Your W needs a true wake-up call at this time I do believe. lifeismessy