W (WS) has been home since August following our five-month separation.<p>Things haven't gone as well as I would like or as well as I had probably expected.<p>I know what some of you have said in reply to my other recent posts....about OM back in the picture...but I truly believe that OM is no longer an issue. Our MC also believes that and I value her (MC's) judgement.<p>So anyway, the latest development was last night when my W says she wanted the separation before to deal with OM issue, and when she was able to put that behind her she moved home thinking that moving back together was what she needed for recovery. Now she feels like, while the separation resolved the issue of OM, it did not resolve the underlying issues of our M that led to A. <p>Basically, from her standpoint, they are self-esteem issues and her feeling that she has not accomplished what she has wanted to out of life. She just says she is not happy. <p>She is now contemplating another separation to try to deal with these issues.<p>She tells me she loves me and that I am a wonderful person and great husband and that the issue isn't with me it is with herself...<p>She did not say she wanted to separate again, but that she wondered if a separation would be a way for her to deal with this...<p>I guess I am looking for input from anyone who has gone thru this with their spouse. Moving home...not really getting toward recovery and then having them leave again...<p>I don't want her to leave, but I also want to try and move our relationship forward. I told her if she needs to leave to do that, well, I couldn't stop her anyway.<p>I am probably rambling here but I am hoping someone has some insight...<p>Thanks<p>E

After I thought the A was over my WH wanted to still leave. Now he tells me it is because he knew he was losing OW and wanted to have time to see her.<p>I feel contact has been made and she is trying to hang on.<p>We need support to deal with self esteem issues and she can't get it by herself.<p>stay strong and no LB<p>
SLH

Elad,
-H moved out 8/98--denying the A, I believed him.
-H moved home 11/98--having broken off with OW
-H moved out 12/98, still denying any affair, but back in contact with OW, told me he had "personal problems"
-H moved home 1/99-- confessed A, wanted to "try", maybe ended contact for 3 weeks.
-H moved out 4/99, OW had boyfriend.
-H moved home 4/99, still in contact but denying it to me.
-H moved into the basement for a week, then out 5/99
-H moved home, OW broke up with boyfriend,he spent a day with her, told me he never saw her, but my friend saw them together.
-H moved out 7/99 to "think" to "have space", denying A, but really sloppy with her in public and people told me.
-H moved in 8/99, his last chance I said...didn't end contact.
-H moved out 10/99 for a divorce (didn't see a lawyer) discovered OW was dating his off & on housemate
-H moved in 11/99, stayed for the holidays
-H moved out 1/00. Contact continued with OW until 2/00. When I served him D papers. H really ended personal contact, though work contact continues.
-We reconciled 5/00.<p>I'm sorry, Elad, I don't believe your wife. I wish I hadn't believed my H, but he was always very convincing--including lying to our first counselor, our pastor, and finally the counselor that saw through it and saved my sanity.<p>If she loves you, wants the marriage, she would realize how fortunate she is to have a partner like you to help her resolve her issues. The only issue you can't help with is that she is still having an affair. Or, if she is really mentally ill.<p>A suggestion, read your last few posts as if they were not yours, as objectively as you can...as a helpful poster, how would you make sense of this WS's wanting another separation and not being "happy"?<p>[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: Lor (Lor) ]</p>

I tend to beleive your wife is stil having some sort of contact with the OM. Our house seemed to have a revolving door for awhile. He was "home for good" then would leave again a week later because he "needed time alone to get his head together". Of course there was never any time alone. If he wasn't here, he was with the OW. When he would leave here to "be alone" he went right there. When he left her to come back home he did tell her he was coming home, but sleeping in the guest room (which was a lie). He didn't act normal when he was here during those times. The A was still in full swing unknown to me. I finally got sick of it and told him that the next time he came home it had to be for real, and permanent. And if he left again after that he might as well leave his keys because the door would close behind him for the last time. Afew weeks later he came home and real recovery started. He had ended the A, told the OW that he was coming home to be with me (no more extra bedroom BS). The change was dramatic, He was really ready, finally.

I tend to think Elad's wife is not in contact with OM, and that she really is trying to figure things out.<p>How long as she been in withdrawal / away from OM? This may have alot to do with it.<p>BUT, I do think IF she leaves that her chances of getting back with OM increase dramatically. She may not set out to do this, but if she doesn't take the precautions to stop it, it is very likely.<p>Elad, this is ultimately her choice. You can try to help, and get her the things she needs at home, but the rest of the people here are right, if she is not ready, then there is nothing you can do...<p>I am sorry. <<<<<<<Elad>>>>>>
HbH

#1...Don't make any assumptions.<p>Elad...your wife may truly be in crisis...is she in IC?<p>Why does she feel need to leave marriage to work on herself? That is what I asked my H....<p>#2...Don't take anything personally.<p>How does she feel you are not supporting her efforts to figure herself out? Can you hear her on this without getting defensive?<p>Are you two in MC?<p>#3...Be impeccable in your word.<p>Are you both being totally honest with one another? leaving NOTHING in hiding? What is that is feared if you are not...?<p>#4...Do your best always.<p>Remember that what your spouse does is not about you...all you can do is act in kindness and goodwill toward them.

Thanks all for your responses...<p>Lor---you must be a saint....I have no idea how you have managed the roller coaster...your story has more ups and downs than most here. Tell us your secret...how have you managed?<p>I appreciate the position of those of you who say my W may still be in contact w/OM. Call me stubborn or stupid, but in this case I do tend to believe her for numerous reasons that have not been detailed in my post...I am not just taking her saying it at face value...<p>I hope and pray I am not wrong...if I am then you are free to say I told you so... [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>As for my W:<p>Last contact w/OM was likely in June/July...<p>We are in MC together...although we are beginning to see the counselor seprately as well as together.<p>SLH: She talks about support...I have done my best. The thing is she says i am her best friend and right now she can't talk to me like i am her best friend because I have so much invested as her H. <p>fairydust: I see where you were at...I am glad your ultimatem worked...I am not there yet.<p>HbH I understand your reasoning behind the chances of contact increasing if she moves out...that scares me BUT...as you all have pointed out it is her choice...I cannot make her do or not do anything, really.<p>
C A L I<p>I appreciate your 4 points...<p>#1: I am trying not to assume anything...as noted my W is and has been in IC<p>#2: She and our C tell me this all the time...it's hard not to <p>#3: I believe we are being honest. I know I am.<p>#4: I know, I know, I know...we can't change them or make them do anything...I have tried my best to be good & kind...<p>no anger here...just a great deal of sadness today
[img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] Maybe tomorrow will be better [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] It's a day at a time thing...<p>Thanks again to all<p>E

Elad, I just thought of something that may cheer you up a bit.<p>Let's say that your wife does seperate for a while to "figure things out", now let's also say that she continues going to IC and although the temptation is there, she manages to avoid OM (it's been 3 months, right?).<p>This does sound probable to me given your story. No guarantee's but it looks good.<p>Affair aside, and given all the information you have shared with us, her seperating may ultimately be the best thing for her right now. ESPECIALLY, if you can become her best friend in the meantime and start dating again. <p>1. You'd know you were meeting her EN's
2. Her pressure and guilt would start to alleviate
3. The IC will help her figure things out and hopefully stay away from OM.
4. It will give you a break from her<p>I mean, if it comes to that, it's not all a bad thing. Yeah, it will be scary, yeah it will be tough, but it's not the end of the world.<p>I'm not saying don't try to stop her. You can just as easily work things out if she stays with you at home, but if she needs to leave, she needs to leave and only time and a clear head will bring her back.<p>And, you always have your boundaries, whatever that may be. Perhaps it is if she gets back with OM, you are getting a divorce. That way, at least you have a plan, something to fall back on, you are not out of control. Know what I mean?<p>I am sorry you have to go through this again, but it could be very, very worse. If you start getting ANY inclination that contact has resumed, please assume the worst, don't let love blind you.<p>I don't know what else you can do except have hope. I hope I have given you some???<p>I know I struggle myself. I think it's too soon for my H to be home because he still has way too many personal issues to deal with (you probably read my story). But, it's so NICE having him here finally... If he suggested it, I'd help him pack, but he wants to be here, with us while he works out his stuff. He wants to work on the marriage and himself at the same time, but it's REALLY hard to do that... Sometimes, I honestly think it would be much easier on me if he worked on his own issues first, then came back, y'no? I just feel like it's too late for me, I've already re-committed, my H gave up his apartment and his full-time job, it's tough to go back.<p>So, that's why I say it may not be such a bad thing.<p>If it gets serious, ask her how she perceives your lives if she moves out. You may be surprised and it may not be as different as it is now... <p><<<<Elad>>>>
HbH

Hi Elad,<p>Wondering about wandering...... hm..... sounds very familar... Yep, heard those also and for us it took him right out there and back to the A. <p>Until this man finally got tired of his own lies and games. Now he is home and does wonder about wandering..... then is jolted back to reality. <p>What should you do? <p>1. Reinforce your love. Give her assurance.
2. Let her know that her wondering could lead to her wandering. If that is her choice, let her know what you will do. Plan B.
3. Let her know that her wandering is hurtful and disrespectful.
4. She lays on you the 'you are better than me' speech. Agree where you can but let her know that you are human also and while it is nice that she notices your good qualities, you feel you can both help better each other and used to work well together and look forward to do so again?!?!?!? Something like that. <p>Bottom line is look for the positive to override the negative. Be careful because too much positive can turn into an LB (especially if she is looking for one). Yet your carefully worded thoughts to her can help you see if contact has been reestablished. If your gut tells you such, then keep watching. If that is the case, all your talk may be falling on deaf ears and you will then need to refocus on you and your family. Back to plan B (if that is where you were before she came home).<p>Me? H is home but I have plan B ready if needed. <p>Take Care,
L.

Orchid & HbH<p>I had previously thought about what both of you have said and if W left I would probably CONSIDER Plan B...<p>Right now she is still at home...we talked again last nite and she says she is past OM, has had no contact and has no plans for contact and I take her at her word...<p>HbH your scenario is a bit cheery and I have considered that if it was just leaving and figuring out stuff on her own that would help her and us, than I could live with another separation.<p>I have told her as much...simply: I don't want her to leave but if she feels she has to do that then I couldn't and wouldn't try to stop her.<p>She says she feels bad about continuing to hurt me while she is home and still in some sort of limbo about how she feels about herself and how she feels about us. In some ways it is like living with her with permanent PMS [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>She says one minute she wants to leave and one minute she wants to stay. It is so confusing...it adds a lot of stress to our lives for sure...<p>Thanks for your input....<p>E

Elad,
It's really ok for you to believe your W. If you later find out she was lying--no I told you so from me--there is no dishonor in believing your spouse. The dishonor is theirs for lying. That is a mindset I used a lot.<p>And, LOL...no secrets here, I've posted on MB since 12/98, though posts before 4/99 died in a crash. I'm also no saint. But the things that did pull me through:<p>-faith that God has a plan for me
-I do love my H, he is my husband.
-my kids, now wonderful, talented teenagers!
-MB (thank you, thank you, thank you [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] )
-exercise
-a decision that a recovered marriage was my optimal goal, 18 month Plan A through the 6th sep, which honestly was a challenge and took me the first year to get the hang of it. Kept bouncing between nicey-nice doormat and LBing harridan.
-reading about a thousand relationship books (I own a bookstore)
-our 2nd counselor, started in 4/99, was/is terrific. Not currently seeing him, but he's there.
-taking time to do things I enjoy, even when I was so miserable enjoyment was not possible--movies, music, candles, hiking.
-good friends, except I supppose for the "friend" who became an OM in the 7th sep., which is definitely my sainthood disqualifier and no help--at all!--to the marriage.
-perhaps for the wrong reasons, including Plan B failure and a drained lovebank, but I let go and my H came to his own conclusions about what he really wanted for his life.
-H's change of heart, turning to God, and the 3 months he spent doing Plan A to me. See posts by Guard in GQII in 2/00.
-the courage and effort for both of us to forgive and reconcile the 7th time.<p>I didn't do my part perfectly--gosh, success without perfection? [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] But I did get to a place where I knew I would be ok with or without my H. <p>I hope your roller coaster ride is much shorter!

Lor<p>Thanks for your post...<p>I know the condensed version of your story doesn't do justice to the tears and pain you and your H have endured.<p>I don't envy your story--you have gone thru a lot---but I do wish I had the same peace you seem to have found with your H and with yourself. Perhaps I will get there some day.<p>The minister at my church ended his sermon on Sunday with the following...and it seemed like it was meant just for me.<p>"No matter what troubled waters you find yourself in today, there will be sunshine ahead. I promise you that. As sure as God made rain; He also made rainbows." <p>Perhaps it is meant for all of us to think about...<p>Take care<p>E