For the benefit of lurking OP or anyone contemplating an affair I thought we might share some of the lies our WS told us and told the OP. WS feel free to contribute any whoppers you may have told. I'm not talking about those weird, fog statements. Just bold faced lies. Plus these threads are always kind of cathartic and interesting to see how many of us heard the same things.
WS to me:
1. She is just my friend
2. I want a divorce, but there is NO other woman
3. I just need to be alone. I have no desire to date anyone (he immediately moved in with her)
4. I would never have an affair (he was already having one)
5. I got a cruddy apartment in a bad neighborhood. I dont' even want you to see it, it's so bad. (It was a cruddy apartment in a bad neighborhood but the OW had already been living in it for years).
6. I sit alone in that empty apartment every night and think about what a mess I've made of everything.
There are tons more, but those are afew right off hand. Now for lies I know he told the OW (according to her)
1. She doesn't love me anymore
2. She was glad I moved out (I was almost suicidal)
3. She wouldn't care if she foud out we were dating (but yet he still made sure it was a big secret)
4. I only talk to Fairydust no more than once a week, and it's only about necessities.
5. When I go over there it's only to do things that need to be done around (I guess that was the truth if he included taking me out to dinner and having sex with me as things "that needed to be done" lol.)
6. When I spend the night over there I sleep in the spare room.
7. Most of the time if I go there, Fairydust isn't even home (I was here every time he came over)
8. After he moved out he told her "We are in the process of getting a divorce" (he never even talked to a lawyer)
I'm sure there were plenty more on that front too. I did think of another funny fog thing he said to me that I thought I'd throw in for chuckle value. "It gets so tiring making promises that I don't keep."<p>[ November 28, 2001: Message edited by: fairydust ]</p>

One of my "favorites"-"I have been unhappy for years."...two weeks before he said that to her,he told me he couldn't wait til our kids all went back to college so we could make love all over the house. "But I wasn't unhappy ALL the time,24 hours a day!!",he says later,to me.<p>I would refer anyone to all the other WS script things in here.Maybe some OW/OM could post what the WS told them that later turned out to be lies. Wouldn't THAT be interesting. I haven't gotten a good straight answer about what negative things he may have told her about me.

hmmmmm,
lies my xMM told. Should I? <p>1. it's almost over
2. we're seperated (again)
3. she won't touch me
4. come over to my place (she's out of town)
5. we're seperated
6. i'm already divorced
7. she doesn't love me
8. she doesn't care where I am tonight
9. i told her the flowers were for my mother
10. she knows about us and doesn't care
11. we're seperated
12. she won't let me undress in front of her
13. she says that she wants a divorce
14. she walked out on me-again
15. she says that we're gonna try again
16. please be patient, i'm trying to get out
17. i'm there for the kids
18. my mother loves you
19. we're legally seperated
20. i love you
21. i'll be there at 6
22. i'll be there at 7
23. i'll be there at 8
24. i was working late
25. we're seperated (are you sensing a theme)
26. i'll call you right back
27. no, that wasn't my wife that answered the phone
28. i'm telling you the truth
29. nobody love me but you
30. it's not really a marriage
31. all we do is fight
32. she shows me no respect
33. with you I feel like a man
34. she completely ignores me
35. we're seperated<p>I've got nearly 10 years worth of these.<p>[ November 28, 2001: Message edited by: Katie Scarlett ]</p>

oh, and did I add,<p>"this time we're REALLY separted"

Katie Scarlett: "i'm not leaving my wife" and that was fine with me.<p>Again, I ask you, WHY ARE YOU HERE? If you were fine with being a MM's OW, why are you posting on a MARRIAGE BUILDING website???<p>Just really curious.

MOM,
I know that it's confusing. It's just that we've had this discussion like 4 times. (I knew that I should have edited that part out).<p>REad this. Or just the beginning:<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=013669

Thanks for enlightening me. I'm sorry I missed the other thread before. I'm very confused by the fact that you say you believe in God, yet you cannot see that God does not wish for you to be an OW. This is very confusing to me. I understand your disagreement with organized religion, but where do you get your basis for a belief in God from? Is it the bible? That's my main basis, and the reason I ask is that committing adultry is one of the 10 "NO-NO's" of the bible. Having sex outside the boundaries of marriage is adultry. Doesn't matter that you're single. God does forgive, but first you need to know that what you're doing is wrong and ask him to forgive.<p>Dang, I'll get off my soapbox. Sorry...

MOM,
we covered that too on the other thread. read further.<p>I'm not brushing you off, it's just that i'm kinda tired of this discussion.<p>Oh and for the record, i'm not such a big bible fan. I favor ACIM. (Althought it's not big on adultry either.)<p>[ November 28, 2001: Message edited by: Katie Scarlett ]</p>

Back to the subject at hand:<p>36. She's moving out in June
37. She's moving out in July
38. She's moving out in August
39. She's moving out when the kids are out of school
40. She's moving out next June
41. you can sleep here, it's not her bed anymore
42. i should have married you
43. i like this resturant for the food (never mind that it's out of the way and VERY dark)
44. no, this is not our joint account. My wife has her own
45. we're gonna live happily ever after
46. we're gonna raise our kids together (never mind that I don't want 3 step-children)
47. i'm getting to old to keep this up. just run away with me.
48. your mother loves me
49. we're seperated
50. i'm moving in with you [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ November 28, 2001: Message edited by: Katie Scarlett ]</p>

I knew I was in trouble when his mother said to me "you have to watch out honey, he lies about EVERYTHING"

Katie,<p>What's ACIM?<p>Estes

A Course in Miracles

I'll not take the time to contribute lies I heard or heard from others that were told about me, but I'm responding to this post because it illustrates why it's important for the BS to send a copy of the Plan B letter to the OP:<p>The BS may have NO IDEA what lies the WS told to OP. Sending a copy of the Plan B letter to OP can sure stir that pot. Yep, it'll be an LB - but a strategically placed LB. It won't cover all the lies, but it'll sure give OP the message that any lies about the BS wanting out of the marriage as much as the WS are all bull.

Katie Scarlett,<p>I for one, am glad you are posting, as long as you are repentant, which you seem to be. You are welcome, but some here consider and OP as triggers, and rightly so. And that means sometimes you will be criticised.....you seem to have a strong backbone, though. <p>I appreciate the insight from OP. Thank you for sharing the lies you were told. It actually makes me, a BS, feel a whole lot better, that I was not the only one hearing lies from H. His OW was too.<p>It sucks.

This is a great thread!!!<p>Katie
You get it! You really get it!<p>I hope someday my D will get it.<p>Things I know he has said to her:
I love her but I'm inlove with you.<p>I never really loved her, I just needed to mary a morman girl and she was cute. (BTW his wife is blonde and I've heard that all his staff look like models, all blonde.)<p>I wish I had met you first. (she would have been 10)<p>Your my soulmate and the rest of the stuff they tell them to get in the door.

I agree that it is good to see the lies Katie Scarlett was told. It lets us all know that what we suspect is true. There is nothing good and healthy going on in affairs. The WS and OP are screwing around with each other's heads and with the BS's head. <p>Scarlett, I've been thinking a lot about your posts. Please don’t take this as an attack, what I am trying to do here is discuss/intellectualize my reaction to much of what you wrote and indeed much of what other OP have said here on MB. If we put aside the religious arguments about adultery being right or wrong. If we base it simply on what is healthy human behavior. Your motivations for your affair were, well, self-serving. You said as much yourself. For some reason you felt your affair and this man got you the things you wanted in life. So you went for it. In the process you did not consider the people you were hurting. Therein lies my concern. You see, it is a basic fact of life that if a person cannot feel empathy, if they are willing to do what ever it takes, hurt whoever gets in their way… then they will hurt me at any time if it suits their needs. When I find out that a person is like this, I avoid them at all costs. Why? Not based on any religious dictates. But based on self-preservation. <p>It is my personal belief that affairs are a form of theft. The WS and the OP are stealing the peace of mind, self-respect, love, time, financial assets, etc that rightfully belong to the BS. In psychology class, years ago, I learned that when a person steals, they are expressing a feeling that the world has cheated them. Therefore they will take what ever they want at any cost to others.<p>I know that people change and grow during their lives. We are all works in progress. So again, I am not trying to pick on you here but only to try to understand. Like anyone else, I have my fair share of sins and stupid mistakes.<p>
Z

Originally posted by zorweb:
<<<If we put aside the religious arguments about adultery being right or wrong. If we base it simply on what is healthy human behavior. Your motivations for your affair were, well, self-serving. You said as much yourself. For some reason you felt your affair and this man got you the things you wanted in life. So you went for it. In the process you did not consider the people you were hurting.>>><p> Is there a such thing as an affair that isn't completely self serving (on both sides)? If the WS and OP would TRULY put themselves in the position of the BS and empathize there would be no affairs. No lame justifications either ("But now the wife will be free to find someone who truly loves her.") But it doesn't work that way. Affairs are total selfishness. The A was what made my H realize and admit what a "taker" he was (our relationship is much more equal now). The OW wanted him and didn't care who she steamrolled in the process. Then she had the nerve to say to me "He broke my heart." If I could have reached through the phone I probably would have strangled her. My entire life was in tatters, our whole extended family in an uproar. She lost a 6 month "boyfriend" who wouldn't be seen in public with her or admit to anyone that they had a relationship. I was supposed to be concerned about HER "broken heart"? When she first called me to tattle I honestly was feeling sorry for her, and told her so (this was before the "he broke my heart comment). As the conversation went further I realized that I was speaking to a person whose heart was as cold as ice when it came to anyone else but her.<p><<<You see, it is a basic fact of life that if a person cannot feel empathy, if they are willing to do what ever it takes, hurt whoever gets in their way… then they will hurt me at any time if it suits their needs. When I find out that a person is like this, I avoid them at all costs. Why? Not based on any religious dictates. But based on self-preservation.>>>><p>EXACTLY! Since my H's A I have had 3 friends who became/were about to become involved in EMRs. One of them I successfully talked out of it. We are still friends. The other 2 have been severed from my life forever. They couldn't empathize with the BS, even though they knew the hell I went through. One said to me "My MM and his W aren't like you and your H. Anyone with half a brain coudl see that you two were meant to be. MM and his wife were a mistake from the start." Of course she didn't even know the wife. I realized that if they could make those justifications and have that little empathy for another human being, then they were potentially toxic and I didn't need them in my life. How long might it be before they twist the knife in my back over something because they can justify it to themselves? When I was single and was approached by a MM I always had 2 thoughts - "How would I feel if I were his wife?" and "I'm insulted. This guy must think I'm a stupid bimbo!" I was never tempted to become an OW because of those 2 thoughts. As a matter of fact, even if I had previously thought that the MM was a nice, attractive guy, he forever became repulsive to me.<p><<<<It is my personal belief that affairs are a form of theft. The WS and the OP are stealing the peace of mind, self-respect, love, time, financial assets, etc that rightfully belong to the BS. In psychology class, years ago, I learned that when a person steals, they are expressing a feeling that the world has cheated them. Therefore they will take what ever they want at any cost to others.>>>><p>Excellent thoughts and I think you hit something right on the head. I think this is why a BS turned OP is often the scariest, take no prisoners, victory at all costs, type of OP. They seem to think that since it was done to them, all bets are off. I know one woman who was completely devastated by her H's affairs. They divorced and she had an affair (and got pregnant by) her best friend's H. This friend had held her hand and dried her tears while she cried over the WH. I will never understand how a person could feel that pain, and then inflict it on another. For me, beign a BS gave me an even greater degree of empathy. I get upset when I hear about a celebrity being cheated on, or someone else I don't even know. The experience may have the opposite effect on others. I think we are irrevocably changed, one way or the other.

Wow! Just WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!
What a great thread. Bump up!

Being the OP is a totally differnt mind set than being a W. (Obviously!) There are those who are the OP with the hopes of becoming a W. But I know more women who are OP and DONT want to be a W.<p>I am sitting at work. I am surrounded by rich men who are in the habit of taking on prisoners, making the deal, big balls kind of guys. I would be hard pressed to find one who doesn't have a mistress. PLUS a lot of the mistresses work here. Payton Place has NOTHING on us.<p>Honestly, around here, being the OW (or WS)is just as glamorous as closing that $300 mm deal. We do both all of the time. Often there is no honor in the things that we have to get done to close deals. It's not personal. It's just business.<p>Same it true with cheating. It's not personal.<p>I have a very good friend in the office who is TOW to a business associate who lives in another country. Honest to God, until I started reading here I NEVER thought anything about it. I have (had) love been her point person on TOW etiquette. It was just part of business as far as I was concerned.<p>I know that some of you guys have been shocked by things that I wrote on "Katie i'm confused." But I told the truth. At this point in my life, I am willing to change. <p>We know they're lies when they tell them. That's just part of the game. Nothing personal.

Hey Fairydust,<p>You talked about BS who become WS or OP. This is called identifying (or over identifying) with the agressor. Think about abused children who grow up to abuse their own children. Same thing.<p>In grief and pain you lash out.