Ok- it has been a VERY long time since I have posted here...I have some questions- and maybe this isn't even the right forum? If not- someone please direct me?
I post frequently over on I.com (log in is Peaceful & Focused)- but lately- I've been anything BUT that...<p>Someone there posted a thread about bullies- and passive aggressive tendancies in cheaters...I responded and she ended up emailing me alot more on it in terms of articles, etc...<p>It seems to shed ALOT of light on my situation- but I was wondering how it fits all into the scheme of Christianity...<p>I am waiting for insurance to kick in- and can't go to a regular counselor til after first of year...I asked my STBX if he would consider RELATIONSHIP counseling- (not marriage- long story short- he cheated LOTS- "turned his life back to God" and now wants our marriage- I'm planning to divorce him)<p>BUT- I want to know what I have done right and wrong- and what dynamics were playing out in our relationship- so that in the future- we don't make the same mistakes...<p>He is dead set on a Christian counselor- is Passive Aggressiveness even discussed among christians?? His two previous christian counselors (before our move) made it sound like his cheating was solely about his lack of a relationship with God- but I guess in my humanness- I think there are more regular old dynamics at play in it (as in personality tendancies and upbringing etc...- I think a relationship with God is only a piece of the puzzle).<p>Am I way off base? Does anyone know anything about this?<p>Any insight or advice would be appreciated- and if you need more info I can provide it- I only have a few minutes and wanted to get this posted...I haven't been here in so long- most people probably don't even remember my story??<p>I'm going to copy and past this post over on the Infidelity board also- because that is what has happened and what is ending my marriage and bring this all up anyway!! I hadn't even HEARD of passive aggressiveness until his cheating...<p>Thanks for your help and advice!
TLFM

I don't even know if this is allowed? But here is the link the lady gave me that gave me information on this "personality"..<p>It described my STBX to a "T" and explained alot of the problems in our marriage and why he has cheating tendancies (I'm talking ALOT of cheating over our ten year marriage)<p>It's at
http://www.passiveaggressive.homestead.com/PATraits.html<p>Please help me if you can???
Thanks again!
TLFM<p>[ November 29, 2001: Message edited by: Too Late For Me? ]</p>

Wow, I almoset expected to see a picture of me xMM next to that description.<p>Glad he's out of my life!

Just a thought here, but have you thought about the fairness of taking someone (who wants to remain married to you) through counseling mostly so that you can "study up" for your next relationship? No question that you were treated horribly by your spouse, and I wouldn't dream of suggesting you are wrong to divorce him. Your decision is correct, I'm sure, and probably the one I would make myself, but don't you want to take the high road here?<p>Just my 2 cents.<p>Rose Red<p>[ December 05, 2001: Message edited by: Rose Red ]</p>

I know what you are saying Rose...<p>I actually posted this on Divorced/Divorcing and got ALOT of really good input and further insight....<p>I don't want to take him to counseling to work on my next relationship necessarily...I'm honestly? Not thinking there is really going to be one- and certainly not any time soon...
But his behaviours and my responses, etc. to it- have and DO carry over into far more relationships than just between he and I...Or between spousal or future dating relationships.<p>We both have issues surrounding this regarding our parents- and then I look at my kids and I look at my kids and see how his behaviour- and my reactions to it- have affected THEM and what they are "learning" thru observation...<p>I just want to learn from this and not just "chuck him out the window" with a divorce- but have both of us step right back into the same junk all over again in ANY area of our relationships-

We are young- I'm 30- he is 32....That is alot of years, alot of future interaction with eachother thru our kids, etc...<p>I just want us to be able to have atleast a friendship- and the way things have been these past ten years, his cheating aside, I am too tired to be friends with such a dramatically passive-aggressive person as he....<p>Thank you for your response though- I can totally see why it came across as kind of selfish of me- like "hey- let's go figure you out so I don't make THAT same mistake twice" LOL....I didn't mean for it to sound so harsh...<p>RR AND Katie...<p>Really- my thread under divorcing did get some great input...you might want to check it out too!
It really has opened my eyes to alot of my own tendancies in the relationships I choose, etc...<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Thanks!
TLFM

TLFM, You're thirty? I wouldn't discount the idea of another relationship. I'm an old lady of 37, and believe me, if this doesn't work out, I'm planning on getting back into dating as soon as I have my head on straight again. (Might take a while though.) I guess I'm a romantic--I think there is nothing more wonderful than sharing your life with somebody who knows and understands you.<p>BTW, some of that passive/aggressive stuff applied to my husband also, just in very mild degree. I can sympathize with you for having to deal with a full blown case for years! Is denying the existence of p.a. part of p.a.? That's my husband!<p>Rose Red

[img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]
hehehehe
I definitely think that is part of P.A.....<p>Even now- in my "rebuilding my life" process- I have started to make friends again (he has been my only friend for 10 years- some friend huh?) and you know what he says???<p>"Oh- that is just great for you- you are going to be just fine without me- you already have more friends than I do" etc, etc, etc.....(I wish I could copy and paste his email here that he sent me last week about it...<p>So- basically- I can't do anything right...<p>GEEEZZZZZ!!!<p>hehehehe- and as far as being 30 and dateless- lonely for the next 40 years....I'm believing it!!<p>It won't be so much not finding a wonderful handsome and sensitive man as much as when he sees the big sign I have hanging around me neck that says "HEY- Chick with baggage here- lots of debt and 3 kids wanna hook up?" He is going to turn around and run, run run away!!!!<p>LOL LOL
[img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]
Did you check out the other thread on the other forum? Itherapist has some really great stuff that she added to it....<p>Thanks for the smiles today "old woman" [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]
TLFM

You guys are yucking it up over here.<p>For the record i'm 31 and I meet single men ALLL of the time. And they ALL have baggage or are COMPLETELY childlike and inexperienced.<p>My current beau is pretty green, but that's ok. So far so good.<p>The trick is not in finding someone without baggage, but rather in finding someone who's baggage goes with yours. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Hey, MB should have a "now that the divorce is final and i'm feelin fine-dating service."<p>Hi, my name is Katie Scarlett, my sign in cancer and my hobbies include shopping, buying houses and yoga.<p>Baggage includes: xMM, crazy parents, a stalker and 4 former step mothers <p>It could work! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

hehehehe- LOL Katie!!!<p>Makes a great personal ad huh? Laying out the baggage- kind of like "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" hehehehehehe<p>I can see it now- "NEW FORUM ON MARRIAGEBUILDERS"- "OK- so your marriage couldn't be repaired- place your personal ad on our new forum, (be sure to include a picture) and let us help find you a suitable mate" hahahahaha- (atleast we could find people with matching BAGGAGE!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] LOL)<p>OH YUCK! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I'm glad that you are moving on in your relationships..Honestly- even though we are at opposite ends of it- I'm a BS and you are a former OW? I honestly feel just as badly for all of the OW (PLURAL) that were part of this whole mess...My STBX was a master....<p>ANYWAY- It is funny- I'm not divorced yet (long story) but I have had guys that are in their 20's that seem interested- I'm like "you have NO IDEA what you are getting into bud!" <p>Being 30 stinks!<p>20 somethings call me Ma'am (yikes!)
30 somethings are all either happily married or going thru a divorce and don't want to mess with another relationship
40 somethings are looking for 20 year olds
50 somethings- well- that is just too close to my dad's age...
and 60 plus?? At the risk of being mean- I DON'T THINK SO!!<p>I always get a good laugh because I could really use a sugar daddy! HAHAHA LOL<p>If only......<p>Most days I feel well- just pretty much hopeless that there will be anyone else for me....<p>I'm not concentrating solely on a future relationship- but you can't be 30 and in my shoes and betrayed BIG time without wondering what a future would even hold...<p>I needed a good laugh and smile today..<p>Thanks guys!!
TLFM<p>oh- and for the record....(and mostly to make myself feel better)- I AM THE YOUNGEST WOMAN ON THIS THREAD- woohoo...getting my advice from the older, wiser ladies of the day!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Well youngin take it from me, there are PLENTY of fish in the sea!<p>Go for the young guys. You can break 'em in and train up just the way you like 'em! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] That's what i'm doing.<p>I am currently with a guy who likes to feel like a manly man! I am retiring in about 3 months. Most people my age are still in the throws of "climbing the career ladder." So i'm gonna sit back a let this guy feel like he's taking a care of me. I'll be a stay at home mom. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] (more like a runnin the streets mom). But if it makes him feel good to have me home while he's working, more power to him!

Well, I just wish a guy, any guy, would give me a second look--young, old, on life-support, anyone will do!! I'm just so sick of BS issues!!! [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] Dangerous talk for a BS, but I've got no plans--just want someone besides my mother to tell me "you're a beautiful woman!"<p>Katie, where are all these men?? They don't go to my hangouts: grocery store, craft store, church.... I want a gawker!<p>Rose Red<p>Oops! I just committed the unpardonable--thread hijacking! Sorry, TLFM!<p>[ December 05, 2001: Message edited by: Rose Red ]</p>

Well Rose...<p>I don't know where Katie finds her gawkers- but if you want to grab your two piece and join me here in Tampa- we could hit the beach and find some for sure!!! LOL <p>I seem to get gawked at alot even at the grocery store- but maybe it is that third ear growing out of my forehead!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>hehehe- I'm so sick of this BS stuff too...Even divorcing it just puts its claws in and holds on.....<p>Seriously though- you know what I've found- it doesn't matter down here on the beaches- you can weigh 90 pounds or 300 and a bikini is still the choice attire!!! No one seems to mind!!<p>hehehehe- of course- in my case then- I might get gawked at for the wrong reasons!! Third ear aside "AAUUUGGHGHHH"- (Mothers are covering their childrens eyes- people see me and run screaming....)<p>LOL!!!<p> [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] I don't care if my thread got hi-jacked- this is much more fun than any old passive aggressive discussion that totally depresses me... [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Thanks for brightening my otherwise bleak day

RR,
I think we were way off the topic anyway. <p>For all of those who wonder I will now post the secret to attracting men's attention. (should I whisper this)<p>Get up in the morning and tell yourself "I am fabulous!!!" Not in an arrogant conceited sort of way. More like confidence. Put on RuPaul's supermodel of the world CD and dance around the house.<p>Now that you're feeling pumped up, throw back your shoulders, hold that head high, put a smile on your face and walk out the door thinking "i am fabulous." Act like you couldn't care less if anybody knows it. As long as you know you're fabulous, you'll be fabulous!<p>Whatever you think about yourself is written ALL over you weather you know it or not.<p>Next, smile at strangers and give up your investment in weather or not they return the smile/good wish.<p>In my entire life I have never been tall, model thin or anything like that. I have also never lacked for male attention.<p>Give it a shot! It's guaranteed! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>ps. oh, and lastly, tell yourself, there are good men in the world.

OK, changed my mind. Quick trip to grocery store reminds me that I don't want gawking by beer bellied guy with messy grey hair! I'd prefer tall 20-something with collegiate good looks. Or sexy businessman with grey temples (UNmarried!). "I am fabulous, I am fabulous, I am fabulous..." [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Yikes!! Two-piece?! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] I'll get back to you after my tummy tuck........<p>Rose Red

You guys are crazy!! You make me laugh and that feels really good. Just for the record, I'm only 24, 25 next week. A trip to the beach sounds lovely, but I think I'll wait until I have my baby. I'd look pretty silly in a 2 piece right now. <p>It's so nice to come on here and just laugh sometimes.

Ok, Red, here's the thing:<p>The beer belly guys are great for practice. Throw back those shoulders and say in a clear voice "good afternoon" to the beer belly guys and keep on truckin'! NEVER MISS A STEP and head in the other direction. You don't want to seem like a *****, but you also don't want to lead them on.<p>You NEVER know. A hottie in a business suit may be watching you and be impressed with the way that you handeled the beer belly. PLUS, it's good karma.<p>I am ALWAYS polite to the homeless here in NY.<p>true example from the life of Katie Scarlett:<p>homeless man : you have a nice a*s
me: (smile) you have a nice day!
(cross street immediately)<p>I'm tellin you hotties LOVE a humanitarian!

I don't think that asking for a Christian counselor is "passive agressive". To be honest, he's probably trying to guarantee himself a counselor that will be interested in seeing you two stick together regardless of relational problems. <p>A non-Christian counselor is often times "relationship neutral".<p>The good thing is that Christian counselors often volunteer their services.. The down side is that they are often poorly trained and can only take you so far. This is not true of all cases, so you should at least give it a try.<p>
I'd tell your husband that he can use the counselor of his choice, but that you reserve the right to discontinue to sessions (after a trial - say 3 sessions) if you don't feel like this person is helping at all.<p>I was very resistant to going to a Christian based counselor with my wife, as she insisted... I found out that the Christian counselors can be better and even more family focused than the "professionals".<p>On a positive note, I'm a man who was rather prolific in my sex life before I was married. I cheated on almost every girlfriend that I had and enjoyed the fruits of multiple relationships at the same time. It provides a man with a "quick fix" but emotionally leaves you empty and drained. It's been hard to change from that lifestyle to going to a committed married reationship, but I've done it (and it's getting easier). I've never cheated on my wife....<p>Good luck.<p>-d

Hi Darrin and Everyone else:<p>Ok you guys.....I thought we worked out the P/A stuff on the other thread..for P/A issues. Been peeking in here to see how this one is going.. and <p>Ohhhhhh.. Darin your comments are interesting ! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I am assuming you are trying to point out the difference betwn csling/ therapy... which is another issue that was addressed somewhere on this board. I can never keep track of all the threads... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>There are MANY Born Again Believers who are trained Professional & Licensed Therapists who are excellent Therapists.<p>There are also a number of Cslers that are NOT licensed, nor are they Christians, that do good work.. although, you would have to ck in with them to see their value system and how they approach therapy. <p>They are many Christians Cslers.. that are just Pastoral Cslers, and I wouldn't send my dog to them, even though I am a Believer. Suffice this to say, there is a huge difference in what they are trained in, and their experience.<p>Without going through all the stuff we discussed on the other thread.. it is important not to make generalizations-- <p>There are many Professionally Trained/ Licensed Therapists- both Believers/ non== that I would NEVER go to.. nor would I refer any my patients to them. <p>Yet, there are folks who are Pastoral Cslers.. and they are quite gifted in skills needed to Counseling. It requires the consumer to be savvy.
I like your idea of shopping Therapists.. and some will even give you a freebie for 1/2 hour or so.. to ck each other out. Ask for it. <p>Basically you were responding to the issue of P/A and whether to go therapy.. and the differences of the different kinds out there. <p>I understand that -- but I think it is important for anyone looking for a Therapist- that you find one that is not going to "Uh huh"you-- and charge you 100 dollars for zip. <p>At the same time an important consideration in selecting a Therapist is to find out their orientation,(this includes their value system, or rather their faith, or non faith etc...whether you have chemistry/trust with them or not.) <p>There are so many Therapists out there that call themselves Therapists, but do not give any
"cluck for the buck" to their clients.<p>I have to run.. as I have Interns I am teaching tonight.. as they prepare for the Licensure Boards.<p>
D

Darrin:<p>Oops.. I am like a 'dog on a bone'! GRRRRRR!
Here is another thought for you to mull over.<p>YOU Wrote:<p>"The good thing is that Christian counselors often volunteer their services.. The down side is that they are often poorly trained and can only take you so far. This is not true of all cases, so you should at least give it a try."<p>What is this thinking that Christian counselers "often volunteer their services... and that the down side-- is that they are often poorly trained?" <p>Huh? What are you inferring--- that their training is somehow inferior to what other profession ?? or professionals ?? Just curious !<p>There are many Christians Therapists that charge mega bucks.. for their services.. and DO NOT provide therapy free of charge.. but may offer a few pro bono sessions.. for folks that are having financial trouble.<p>Do you really have any clue what the training is for Therapists ? In many states such as mine, the amount of hours required for a license is equal to that of a MD!!Our scope of practice is extensive--but must meet certain parameters.<p>Secondly, in my state which is the hardest to get a license in--the Pass rate for the Boards is about 34%!! Many Interns have to go through the process a few times.. be/c the difficulty of the exam. <p>They must know how to work in hospital settings, in patient psych wards, and be able to conduct themselves in private practice. The reality is,, that unless they are doing good work.. they will not survive Private practice. <p>Our licenses are coveted by a number of other states.. b/c the of the Boards, and required hours of training.<p>I realize that not all states have these requirements.. but.. again.. I think you need to gather additional information on these assumptions.<p> YOU WROTE:<p>"I was very resistant to going to a Christian based counselor with my wife, as she insisted... I found out that the Christian counselors can be better and even more family focused than the "professionals"."<p>This statement seems to imply that Christian Cslers/ Therapists are somehow less than professional.. <p>I would love to know what your idea of "Professional" might be.<p>D