Darrin:<p>Oops.. I am like a 'dog on a bone'! GRRRRRR!
Here is another thought for you to mull over.<p>YOU Wrote:<p>"The good thing is that Christian counselors often volunteer their services.. The down side is that they are often poorly trained and can only take you so far. This is not true of all cases, so you should at least give it a try."<p>What is this thinking that Christian counselers "often volunteer their services... and that the down side-- is that they are often poorly trained?" <p>Huh? What are you inferring--- that their training is somehow inferior to what other profession ?? or professionals ?? Just curious !<p>There are many Christians Therapists that charge mega bucks.. for their services.. and DO NOT provide therapy free of charge.. but may offer a few pro bono sessions.. for folks that are having financial trouble.<p>Do you really have any clue what the training is for Therapists ? In many states such as mine, the amount of hours required for a license is equal to that of a MD!!Our scope of practice is extensive--but must meet certain parameters.<p>Secondly, in my state which is the hardest to get a license in--the Pass rate for the Boards is about 34%!! Many Interns have to go through the process a few times.. be/c the difficulty of the exam. <p>They must know how to work in hospital settings, in patient psych wards, and be able to conduct themselves in private practice. The reality is,, that unless they are doing good work.. they will not survive Private practice. <p>Our licenses are coveted by a number of other states.. b/c the of the Boards, and required hours of training.<p>I realize that not all states have these requirements.. but.. again.. I think you need to gather additional information on these assumptions.<p> YOU WROTE:<p>"I was very resistant to going to a Christian based counselor with my wife, as she insisted... I found out that the Christian counselors can be better and even more family focused than the "professionals"."<p>This statement seems to imply that Christian Cslers/ Therapists are somehow less than professional.. <p>I would love to know what your idea of "Professional" might be.<p>D

You wrote:
Oops.. I am like a 'dog on a bone'! GRRRRRR!
Here is another thought for you to mull over.<p>
I'm not a counselor. I'm an engineer by trade and until fairly recently thought most therapy was a load of &^&! I grew up with a father who had a PhD in child psychology, but was generally an unsupportive father for the majority of my childhood which didn't help my opinion. Please understand that I don't mean to insult your profession and my opinions are just that - opinions. <p>I'm now a little older and have some experience with the a counselor who "specializes" in psychotherapy. To me (and through talking with her), that means the theory that she perscribes to is the following:<p>Most conflicts are caused by feelings. These feelings are a result of an issue that may not be immediately visable to the patient (or the counselor). Until this issue is recognized, nothing can be resolved.<p>I wasn't happy with her "theory" until I saw that she was having a lot of success with my wife. I was expecting a more practical exercise/communicaiton skills based approach.<p>
You wrote:<p>What is this thinking that Christian counselers "often volunteer their services... and that the down side-- is that they are often poorly trained?" <p>
I was unclear. I meant to say that members of the clergy are almost always counselors (in one form or another) and usually volunteer their services. IMHO, I feel that members of the clergy are not always extensively trained to deal with issues regarding marriage, but often face a much broader spectrum of problems. In addition, in some denominations the higher up members of the clergy are not allowed to marry and the result is no first hand experience with the issues common in marriage. Furthermore, they can base advice on a specific docturn or specific area of the bible - such as suggesting that a wife must submit to her husband for the marriage to work.<p>I do NOT mean that Christians counselors are somehow unqualified, because that is certainly not the case.<p>YOU WROTE:
Huh? What are you inferring--- that their training is somehow inferior to what other profession ?? or professionals ?? Just curious !<p>
I might suggest that the counseling training that a member of the clergy receives may not be as area specific (such as marriage) as a "professional" certified marriage counselor.<p>YOU WROTE:
There are many Christians Therapists that charge mega bucks.. for their services.. and DO NOT provide therapy free of charge.. but may offer a few pro bono sessions.. for folks that are having financial trouble.<p>
I recognize this. As an software engineer, I don't give away my skills free of charge just because I am a Christian. I might volunteer from time to time for a cause that I consider important, or try and teach kids in school how to use computers... Like I said, I should have been more specific, because I didn't differentiate between Christian therapists and members of the clergy.<p>YOU WROTE:
Do you really have any clue what the training is for Therapists ? In many states such as mine, the amount of hours required for a license is equal to that of a MD!!Our scope of practice is extensive--but must meet certain parameters.<p>
I haven't looked into counseling certification here in TX, no. I do know that as a graduate from college, I can become a guidance counselor for kids in high school or college. Am I qualified? Heck no... Is there any state prohibition from preventing people from advertising therapy or conseling without a license?<p>I honestly hope that it's not on the same scale as getting an MD.. 4 years college, 4 years med school, 4 more years in residency (@50-90 hours a week). One thing I have figured out after being married to a doc is that they deserve every penny they earn after 12 years of advanced school. If your ceritification process is anything like this, then I respect your dedication.<p>
YOU WROTE:
They must know how to work in hospital settings, in patient psych wards, and be able to conduct themselves in private practice. The reality is,, that unless they are doing good work.. they will not survive Private practice. <p>The (non-Christian focused) counselor that we have been seeing was refered to us by my insurance plan. She specializes in the counseling of elderly couples and retirement issues. She's making a "switch" to marriage and family issues. She does not do much directing, but she does ask, "how does that make you feel" quite a bit....<p>YOU WROTE:
This statement seems to imply that Christian Cslers/ Therapists are somehow less than professional.. <p>
I meant to imply that in my limited experience, counselors that are Christian are usually a bit more pro-marriage. The first thing our counselor said when we walked into her office and announced that we were having "issues" was, "well, maybe you two don't need to be married."<p>
Didn't mean to offend you!<p>-d

Hi Darrin;<p>I see the Ladie's fun with this thread.. has gotten very quiet.. while I chew on my bone!<p>NO OFFENSE TAKEN-- I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR ABOUT THE ASSUMPTIONS YOU ARE OPERATING FROM.<p>Ok.. Thx you for making your thoughts clearer, although.. from my interpretation.. some of the opinions you hold, are based both on assumption, and WHAT SOUNDS LIKE TO ME a poor experience with a father who didn't use his specialized knowledge in a way that indicated that he had ANY. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Also, the Therapist you are with.. and what she specializes in-- would give me the chills if she is trying to switch to MArriage/ Family!<p>If your wife is making progress , great.. but if it is suppose to be for both of you-- then perhaps someone who is a Believer, and is trained in Marriage Family.. would be more appropriate.<p>I will concur with you that many Pastoral Cslers are not trained in the deeper work of Therapy.. they basically are in a supportive function- and are generally able to assist in spiritual/ certain type of crisis situations.<p>I have spoke at length on this on other threads.<p>BUT-- a true Psychotherapist-or Psych has training in Marriage/ Family-- what they specialize in is a whole different manner. I am not sure what type of therapist your wife is seeing.. only what she has specialized in...elderly issues, etc.

There are many sub specialities that Psych/Therapists can go into.. just like MD. <p>Not every psych out there are capable of doing THERAPY>> SOme go into that field.. b/c they like Psychology, and want to go the academic route--research/ teach, mentor etc.... and have no desire to do Therapy. ( Perhaps your father?) <p>Some want to do therapy.. but they "can't get it.." and their practices are run of the mill, or they just do "talk therapy" with zero help for the patient.<p>There are some who hold Ph.d in Psych but it is just a degree..nothing more.<p>A degree whether it is undergrad/ grad-- does not make a Therapist. It is just a degree.<p>When you referenced the Guidance Csler thing in schools.. You are absolutely right-- this would not make you a csler-- any more than being a Csler in the schools-- makes someone a Therapist.
Those positions are credentialed positions-- that are in the context of school environment-- related to behavior, guidance, academics, etc. <p>Many states only require those people to complete a 4 year degree, take a test, and they get the credential.. This is very different than a license to practice.<p>There are alot of poor therapists in my opinion.. but there are some good ones.. just like there are some good Pastoral Cslers.<p>Your description of the current therapist you are using.. the method she is using---based on what you shared... just dealing with the "feelings" would leave me cold.. but again that is opinion, based on little information. <p>Real Therapy goes beyond the Feelings.. and yes, there are many theorectical orientations out there-- but real therapy is deep, very intimate, probing work-- with the ability to help the client "connect the dots", and bring resolution, and problem solving techniques to the surface/ relationship. <p>IT IS NOT JUST FOCUSED ON THE FEELINGS THAT SURROUND THE CONFLICT--and what that means.. <p>Lastly, I am not aware of any state that will give a License to a Therapist/ Psych withot grad degree-- and substantial hours in Internships, plus, at least a written Board exam, and many require an additional Oral exam.<p>In our state-- as i stated previously, it is the hardest state to get a License in as Psychotherapist- and requires the most amount of hours, degrees etc.<p>This starts with a 4 year degree in Social/ Psych , graduate degree-- of which I have 2- that is another 3-4 years, plus, Practicum.. which is dictated by the University you go to.. could range betwn 1000 hours to 2000 hours--- and an additional 3500 + hours in Internships, which must cover rotations in with children, individuals, couples, families... in different settings---..ALL of which takes another 3 -4 years to accomplish. ALL this, while working in the field.. many hold two jobs- and work nights seeing patients.<p>It is very similar to MD-- but in our state MD need 3500-4200 hours in Patient contact... in addition to their schooling-- Our license is a hard fought for document-- plus, we are required to stay current with 30 hours of CEU every 2 years.. in order to renew.. and guess what-- they ck up on us ! This is why this document is so coveted in other states.<p>Our Boards process is even worse.. it usually takes the average Intern about 2 years to get their license.. after everything is completed.. be/c many fail their Oral exam.<p>Also.. Clincial Psych are up in arms here.. b/c our license allows us to do everything a Psych can do.. Right now.. there is talk at the national/state level of allowing Psych/ Therapists to write scripts for meds-- for depression, anxiety.. wth additional training !<p>Hope this helps to clairfy ! D