not sure how much this is about MB but it is about me working on me for the betterment of the Marriage!<p>Last night during group (men&#8217;s group) i was doing work around what has become a clear obstacle in my happiness. <p>After a rather intense session of trying to figure out why I tend to live my life afraid all the time one of the men flat out asked me if I loved myself. <p>This has long been a peeve of mine, people who say love yourself, or honor yourself to me it sounds like complete BullPucky. I simply have no idea what that means, what it would feel like nor how to do such a thing, I believed it to be feel good BS that people say in attempts to feel better. I didn&#8217;t and maybe still don&#8217;t believe its possible to love oneself. <p>This seemed as foreign to the men in my group as the idea of self love does to me, so why don&#8217;t I know what this means? <p>Do I hate myself? No I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s possible either. <p>What do I know about myself? What do I believe or want for myself?<p>The truth is I have no concept of self. <p>I have a core belief that if I am not doing what others expect or want from me they wont want me. This belief is so strong and has existed for so long that I don&#8217;t who or what or even why I am.<p>If I am not acting on the expectations of others I am idle. Lost without purpose. I have no wants (other than sex or physical pleasure/challenge).<p>Part of the work in this group is to have a mission that guides you in your work, currently my mission is:<p>To Create a world of honesty and trust by being honest and trustworthy.<p>So what stands in the way of me fulfilling my mission? <p>My core belief is telling me that it&#8217;s more important to be liked and to please than it is to be honest. <p>How does this affect my marriage? I don&#8217;t show up? Everything that exists is a result of me doing what I believe my wife wants. Not what I want or need or believe but what I think she does. <p>What do I want? I just don&#8217;t have a clue&#8230;

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>My core belief is telling me that it&#8217;s more important to be liked and to please than it is to be honest. <p>How does this affect my marriage? I don&#8217;t show up? Everything that exists is a result of me doing what I believe my wife wants. Not what I want or need or believe but what I think she does. <p>What do I want? I just don&#8217;t have a clue&#8230;<hr></blockquote><p>chaz...this could have been written by my H. This is what he does...he tries to do what he thinks others want...thinks
and, yeah, he doesn't show up in his marriage either...I sometimes think he wants to be invisible.<p>Is it really a matter of what you want? Maybe, like my H, it's really that you don't know what to DO about what you want....<p>As most people who read my stuff know, I'm a HUGE reader...my suggestion for you is to read "The Four Agreements" and "The Master of Love" by don Miguel Ruiz. His stuff just helped me click a lot of the puzzle pieces about human nature and the socialization of humans into place.<p>Good Luck, Chaz.

chazbutler - When I read your post I scrolled down real fast to see if Trying Again had beat me to it.<p>She did. ( go C A L I ! )<p>The "4 Agreements" is what I started with, on her recommendation.<p>It kicks a**.<p>Please read it.<p>The argument is that you cannot participate in a successful relationship until you understand, accept without judging, and love yourself.<p>You cannot go by what "others want". You give away who you are; your power. You have no identity. People also lie to themselves, they lie to you..<p>I have it on cassette, and have listened to it over and over.<p>Dan<p>Oh, by the way... to me you can be honest. You don't need to be rude or mean. Or critical.<p>That just drives people away.<p>[ November 29, 2001: Message edited by: Family Man ]</p>

Hi Chaz,<p>Just went through a completely new login, just to post to you. I have been hanging out on the Divorce Busting BB, but always come here for more. <p>Your topic really hit home for me. Somewhere heard that if you don't love yourself then no one else will. Believe that is true. My H has kind of used it for a control. Don't really believe he loves himself either ... that is what made the ow so wonderful, she kept telling him how great he was and now he feeds on it like mana from heaven. <p>My self worth is a result of my childhood. Never abused or neglected, just never felt validated. Perhaps you understand what I mean. Children always try to gain the approval from parents and siblings, when it is continually denied and perhaps even jested about, you begin to feel you are useless and unlovable. As hard as you try, along the way frustration overcomes, because you have the same faith in yourself that your family had in you, whether rightly or wrongly percieved.<p>This is my third marriage. All my happiness was reliant on how happy my mate was. Of course, this placed a tremendeous burden on him, and became stressful. Not to mention, the loss of respect for me because I was not really a person, just some kind of appendage that needed taking care of. I am going on here, sorry.<p>The upshot is, RESPECT. I am gaining respect for myself (separated, with H in an affair for many months), and I am not ready to have him back. He feels that it is over between us. After 17 years of building and working together we cannot leave the relationship quickly, so are maintaining a limited communication. <p>How well I understand where you are coming from. I have read the books, done the excersises and found no satisfaction. My roots are Christian, and to that I have returned. I am coming back to my roots ... reading how much God loves me and feeling guilty about not loving myself. Guess, I am called back to Christ in this mess, but would not have it any other way. I am learning to only fear God and not what others think of me. They can do nothing to me, but God can. <p>Fear of not being accepted is often what motivates us to be a doormat. Fear is the real enemy. Fear that no one will like us, but as you see on these boards, people care. They may become impatient but they will always be there for you. They do understand. But God never becomes impatient. You are his ultimate creation, His beloved child, His cheif concern. His love will never fail or leave you.<p>I know you think I am sermonizing, perhaps I am. But until I began REALLY reading His words, and visiting rejoiceministries.com , I felt worthless, dejected, rejected and depressed. I am so much better now (positive), although I still feel so sad about my M, my fear is subsiding.<p>Take care, Hon .....God loves you. Jan

Ruiz's books are NOT so-called "Christian" books...he is from Toltec lineage...and that is from where he writes...<p>BUT...he does talk a lot about GOD and God's love...and how loving yourself is loving God because you are God's child...and God does not make garbage...He just waits patiently for us to love ourselves and find our strength in him...to believe in Him and follow Him.<p>Chaz...that's what has changed ME about my H...before when I 'thought' I had accepted my H...I hadn't...I still complained...nagged...talked to others about him...<p>Ruiz's books are just the first ones that helped...Chuck and Nancy Missler have a book called "The Way of Agape" that discusses 'unconditional' love...the only way one can unconditionally love another is to know God's love and be able to love themselves first...<p>Like I said...I am a voracious reader...and when knowledge is presented to me I don't turn my back upon it...I embrace it...Life is about growing and learning...when crises happen...that's what I look for...the lesson I am to have learned...what does God want me to know or to change?