tycush,<p>Here's a couple of suggestions from someone who's been doing this for a few months now...<p>1. Don't attempt to reason with her - don't argue - the tighter you try to hold on to her, the more she'll want to run.<p>2. Be patient - there is rarely a quick-fix in these situations. I hoped there was in my case too, but it's been 3 months now and the rollercoaster is still in full motion!<p>3. If she thinks sending an e-mail is a LB, don't do it, even though you want to - remember that the WS defines what's a LB.<p>4. You asked about Plan B - I'd really suggest you think long and hard before going there - there's no promise of outcome from that, it could be the end of your marriage - I'd recommend talking to a counselor like Steve before going that route.<p>5. Remember what Plan A and B are all about - getting you better. Feeling better, and acting better as a person. The side-effects of these plans are sometimes that the WS will come to their senses and want to work on the marriage. But the only thing you can control right now is yourself.

WS asked me "so I should put others before myself?" after I talked about (she asked) my defenition of love - (meeting needs of one another, respect, providing unconditional love (shouldn't this situation be one of the 'unsaid' conditions). Is putting other's needs before yourself lack of respect for yourself - therefore doing what she's doing is ok?<p>Is what she's doing completely selfish and because I love her, I should 'allow' (for myself) to continue with this pain until she "figures it out"?<p>She says she needs to clarify things with OM on this trip. ie. how he feels etc... she says that's not to say IF he says he wants a long term permanent relationship that she's going to leave me for him. I said why not clarify things over the phone? no concrete response...<p>My WS told me she has a friend who she can relate to - friend's H never new (doesn't know) it was happening - my WS asks "does it make my situation less holy'er than hers, or more disrespectful"? the friend's OM wanted a life relationship - she felt in love with him, but chose to reconcile her marriage for family and grow love back to H. She still talks to OM. H doesn't know. My WS is rationalizing with her, maybe looking for justification that going to see him is ok, regardless if I know or not. She says isn't it being respectful that she's being honest with me about this.<p>I'm not LBing her in any way here (I don't think) - in some way, I'm looking for some one to explain to me so maybe I can see what she's doing is ok or something... or tell me how wacked I am. Thank You.

in regards to -
quote: from [URL=http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=006876&p=2]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=006876&p=2[/UR L]
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Make sure he knows that you are not about to just give up this marriage to her and that he is in fact breaking up a family
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<p>Is it him that's breaking up the family? My WS's choices brought the A into this marriage.. Ultimately, it's my WS that's breaking up this family. I don't want to judge him, and I don't expect he will just go away because of morals and values (does he have any, getting involved with a married woman?) and why would he care if I say I'm not giving up on this marriage - I guess I only want for him to know what's going on. Thoughts on OM having link to these postings? Thank You.<p>[ December 04, 2001: Message edited by: tycush ]</p>

I asked my wife what would she say if I need another woman right away. She answered, you need to do what you need to do and she would be ok with that. Then I asked her, (not that I would) but would it be ok if I turn homosexual. She said that's going a bit too far. In my opinion, she's trying to justify what she's doing is OK.
This trip is what's got me bogged down the most. She says she's got to get some questions answered. Why can't she resolve issues with him over the phone... I know, it's the physical desire - Bryanp spelled this out for me. It's like a drug - she's had it before, it was great, and wants it again - at any cost - granted there's some EN in there too. WS and I have been reading all of these postings and what HiInfidelity wrote to my W - hopefully helped her realize the truth of the matter.<p>I'm also trying to come to terms with myself, in that do I really want to stay in a marriage where I'm not loved. She's going to disagree with that when she reads this, but does she still love me, how can she... I feel like I'm on the edge of giving up - not so much giving up, but moving on - closing this chapter with new knowledge of myself and experience. Don't know if this makes any sense but I can maybe see that if she were to go on this trip, come back and continue as is - I would feel that when (if) she said OK, OM is done, and let's move forward with marriage and get help I may feel that she'll be the door prize for me. I do Love her more than anything and I would feel that she deserves someone who will love her regardless of her values of 'good feeling, happiness guidence'. In a wierd way I'd be cheating her out of true love. still confused, forever, I guess. That's life.

would you happen to have any words of wisdom to tell my W. your opinions are important to both of us (and very appreciated) but are there any words to help her feel better about what she's doing (me, H - doesn't understand this) - or help her understand that what she's doing is an addiction and not real love? that is correct right? (she's seen him 3 times) 2000 miles away, communication over e-mail. She says nobody cares about how she feels or what she's thinking. I told her she needs to do what she needs to do and she says she's so torn and confused and unhappy and don't know what to do. Thank You.

W says I'll never see it her way and she can't see it my way. She asks the question, "Am I really marriage material?" OPINION?<p>She wrote me this earlier today:<p>"No love units left? I just don't see it as not having love units for you. I'm just trying to be honest with myself and with you. Can't you see that I've been working on that? I told you when he calls, don't I. I just feel that is I'm going to make a decision, but I don't see the decistion as this 'trip'. I see this coming after the trip. This may sound stupid and probably room for interpretation but if I don't go, will I ever have it out of my system? do you understand this is so hard for me - like you said, in a perfect world this would have never happened, but it did. If loosing you (according to you) is what will happen - then I have essentially... then she stopped writting. thoughts?<p>I asked her to finish this and she said - "THEN ESSENTIALLY i HAVE NO CHOICE. i DON'T WANT TO LOOSE YOU, BUT I NEED TO FIND MYSELF FIRST. I KNOW, I KNOW....YOU SAY THAT I CAN DO THAT HERE AND NOW...I'VE BEEN TRYING.

MAYBE I NEED TO GO TO TIMBUKTU AND COME BACK NEXT YEAR"<p>[ December 06, 2001: Message edited by: tycush ]</p>

W says I'll never see it her way and she can't see it my way. She asks the question, "Am I really marriage material?" OPINION?<p>She wrote me this earlier today:<p>"No love units left? I just don't see it as not having love units for you. I'm just trying to be honest with myself and with you. Can't you see that I've been working on that? I told you when he calls, don't I. I just feel that I'm going to make a decision, but I don't see the decision as this 'trip'. I see this coming after the trip. This may sound stupid and probably room for interpretation but if I don't go, will I ever have it out of my system? do you understand this is so hard for me - like you said, in a perfect world this would have never happened, but it did. If loosing you (according to you) is what will happen - then I have essentially... then she stopped writting. thoughts?<p>I asked her to finish this and she said - "THEN ESSENTIALLY i HAVE NO CHOICE. i DON'T WANT TO LOOSE YOU, BUT I NEED TO FIND MYSELF FIRST. I KNOW, I KNOW....YOU SAY THAT I CAN DO THAT HERE AND NOW...I'VE BEEN TRYING.

MAYBE I NEED TO GO TO TIMBUKTU AND COME BACK NEXT YEAR"

To Ty's wife--
You know you just can't wait to go bang this guy. Why don't you just admit it. Wow, man, they talk about guys thinking with their little head instead of their big head. Whatever. Go have fun. If you were my wife, I'd have dumped your [censored] way way long ago. <p>Ty, listen dude, your wife wants to bang another dude. She's already banged him many times. You know that. You know the only thing on her mind is going on "the trip" and banging this dude. How can you stand around and let it happen without repercussion. Dump her, dude. Divorce her and don't look back. If you don't, you might as well go with her and cook them dinner before they get into bed.

Tycush, VRMCCA...
I am the WS and am my H and I are in our second month of recovery. I had the EXACT same feeling thoughts as the two of you are describing. I am fairly new here myself, I don't know how to create links yet. PLEASE look up my thread. I posted it here, titled, "My LONG story....". I also urge you to look up old posts from my H WLD. He posted during my A and his thoughts and the responses he got may also help you two out. If you visit my thread you will see I am not done, I will be finishing it tonight...
Good luck to you ALL!!

Deja vu...I think we've all been here before...<p>With apologies to Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young.<p>Man, the story is so similar. Only I had a tryst with a whore in Europe, and I had to tell her about it so I would not pass on any creepy crawlies. Turns out, I'm ok, but I couldn't take that chance. Anyhow, 2 months after that D-day, I find out that she has been having an EA with some cat in Massachusetts. As if we didn't have enough to worry about with my indescretion. Long story short, they have not met (yet), have not talked on the phone , or exchanged photo's. I know it is a little far fetched, espescially since thisa was going on since Feb. or Mar..She says that the urge to meet him is greater now than ever. I think since her D-day in first week Nov., that has changed. Oh, I am sure she still wants to meet the guy, but for different reasons. From the get go, I encouraged her to go see him. I don't like it, but she has to come face to face with her feelings. Some may say that I am just soft, because of my tryst, but beleive me, I was and am still pissed that she shared her inner most feelings with someone besides me. I have been trying for 15 years to get her to be open with me .
The best advice I can give you is to get YOU some counseling and NOW. you cannot control her or her emotions, but you can control yourself. At the very least, you will find peace. You have to trust that the world will go on regardless if she stays or goes. You will have a lot of pain, but until you understand YOU, how can you hope to understand her, or help her understand your feelings?
Get the book " Husbands Who Won't Lead, & Wives Who Won't Follow" by James Walker. It has a religious tone, but once you skip the Bible verses and the like, you will find that it explains a lot about personalities, and what you can do to understand them, and how to change the bad habits. I got more out of that book than the truckload of tomes that I have bought over the years.
Yeah, we have always had some bad times over the 15 years we have been together. We only held on because we didn't know better. Now, I think we understand why we have done the stuff we have done in the past, and I think the current situation was what it took to get us to stop and take a truly objective look at what we are, and why we love each other.
We are actually talking now. Just simple stuff really, but we actually care about what the other says.
Oh, and the OM? I told her we needed to set a boundary as far as the meeting thing. We agreed that she will see him before Christmas. If it doesn't happen by then, I will e-mail him and let him know where I stand. It may be that now that she wants to see him, he will get spooked and run. I hope it will be that easy. He knows that I know about the plan, and according to the W, she doesn't hear from him as often, and he hasn't set a date yet. On the other hand, I really think that she will be the one to call it off. In that case, I won't need to say a thing.
I'll hush now, as I went over my alloted bandwidth.
God bless and good luck to all in this mess. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]

Mbeng,<p>Are you sure that is a good idea for your W to see this OM? Your plan could backfire, and then what? You two are in a much better situation than many here. Your W's EA hasn't gone physical and they haven't met yet, it seems that this is a good time to end it rather than allowing the emotional connection to become stronger. Your W seems as if she wants your marriage, and is willing to work on things with you but still has some feelings for OM??? Have you read the book Surviving an Affair? You can find it in the bookstore at the top of this page. This could help you out a bunch with both your infadelity, and her EA. I would suggest you reconsider encouraging your W to see OM. You could be right in that it could turn out to be a flop, but what if your wrong? Also, you were worried you may have contracted an STD in your A, what if your Ws EA turns PA and she contracts something? Just a thought here.

This is the WS...<p>Do I not owe it to my H to be true to him and myself? I mean what is a committment without truley meaning it? Wouldn't it be a cop-out to just say OK, let's make this marriage work? I've actually said this before to H, but didn't really mean it. I guess I was hoping that these feelings for the OM, my worthlessness for what I've done would simply go away, but it hasn't. I know this cannot continue and I do want the madness to end, to everyone involves benefit.

To Ty's wife--
Nah. That's just gibberish. You just want to
negate your marriage and go have a romp with the new guy. You are a disloyal slut.<p>But that's ok, because one day you yourself will need someone to be there, perhaps when you are older and saggier, which will come very soon for you; and they will dump your [censored] because they found someone more attractive. Then you will think back long ago about old Ty who was there for you through thick and thin.<p>Whatever. You're gonna do what you want anyway.
why rationalize? You're a ho. So go be a ho!

To SEM:
She has to make the decision, not me. If it flops, then I am prepared to go on. I won't like it, but hey, I can't torture myself saying what if. I think this will give us the closure we need. Like I told her, the only way I can get her to love and trust me is to love and trust her--- UNCONDITIONALLY. I also said in my post that I think her thoughts on him have changed. Changed to my benefit.
Ty, hang in there man, it is a rough road. But until you get peace with yourself and quit worrying and badgering her, it will only get worse. Of course this is only one man's opinion, your mileage may vary. Only you can decide from all this great information you are getting what is right for you. If you are a spiritual person, it is time to let go and let God.

Eazy,<p>Please don't come here if you are not here to help, there are other websights you can visit that encourage your type of attitude and language. This sight is intended to help couples struggling with infadelity, and it is intended to be supportive not destructive and hurtful. <p>Tycush, and W,<p>I appoligize, Eazy is obviously not familiar with what this sight is intended for, and I can attest for the rest of us who are much more understanding and actually are willing to help. Please don't listen to Eazy, he isn't hear for the same reasons as the rest of us.

Sorry, guys, I know you're right and I apologize.
It's just that...gosh, Ty's wife just so blatantly doesn't care and almost revels in putting it in his face while he tries to work things out.<p>I'm really sorry and I'll try to tone things down.
But in MB terms, Ty, I so vote for plan B<p>Once again, sorry for the language and attitude<p>[ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: EazyE ]</p>

FWIW EasyE<p>You only posted the truth. I am sure there are many people who agree with you. Isn't it funny how the WS are allowed to post the most vile, hurtful thing here but God forbid if a BS says anything slightly negative. Sometimes these WS need a reality check!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by KalGrl:
<strong><p>Isn't it funny how the WS are allowed to post the most vile, hurtful thing here but God forbid if a BS says anything slightly negative.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Kalgrl,<p>I am the one bringing it to Eazy's attention on the attitude and speaking his mind and I understand his frustration, however this is not a place for taking out our frustrations at someone elses expense. Ty and his W are new members here and have a lot to learn, we can help them and possibly help Ty save his marriage, and his W from doing further damage. When is the last time you guys have seen the BS and his WS who is currently involved in an A on these boards? It isn't often, we could all learn a thing or two, and we could possibly help a great deal if we can keep her comming here for advice and help. If we burn her off because she is confused and is sitting on the fence, all we are doing is pushing her further away from help. <p>I don't know how Ty feels about someone calling his wife a ho, but I would be affended if someone called my W a ho, and being new here, as he is, this could very well push him away from these boards. Common guys would you want to be treated this way because someone doesn't agree with you?
And no I am not the WS, I am the BS.

SEM - I am a bit offended at someone called WS a ho. But, everyone in this world is entitle to have their own opinion. I may not like what people think about cirtain things, but we do live in a country where freedom of speech is very important. I know the truth about my WS - she is not a ho! only in a DEEP FOG.<p>Yesterday, she told me - "Sounds wierd, but I feel I'm having an EA with you" I don't quite understand that - any opinions? and she said how about we just take 3 months and,,, do nothing.

Ty and W,
Opinion or not people should keep name calling for children. <p>Your W is Deep in the fog. I am the WS and my "opinion" is that she probably wants to rekindle what the two have you had. In my opinion I think that you should take her out on dates and hold hands when doing so. I don't know what kind of time you take out for eachother, but I know that since D-day we take at least one day for eachother alone w/out the kids. We go to movies, hiking, amusment parks, the mall, what ever we want. We hold hands and kiss eachother wherever and whenever. It's like being in highschool all over again. <p>I don't think she should go on any trip away from you because all she would be doing is relighting the feelings for OM. Personally I think you should send an e-mail to him and be decient and say W and I are still in love trying to fix our marriage together. <p>
As for her friend I think that she needs to get rid of her. I say this because I too had to get rid of my best friend of 10 yrs because she is a negative influence. She had convinced me that my H cheated on me (never did) that I didn't need him, to go out with to the bars with out him, that he is controlling, what he doesn't know doesn't hurt him( completly agaisnt Dr, Harley's suggestions).
A real freind doesn't make your decisions, they can make suggestions. Doesn't your H stand by your side no matter what you have said or done? How about your friend? (mine has [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] )<p>I think you should read several of Dr Harley's books. We have "His needs her Needs" I think that your W will like this book. I did [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] and Survivng an Affair. My H just finished with that.
I will pray for you both. Sherry