What is your opinion;<p> Well wife finally came around and decided to talk
about all that has been going on with her and why she
has been doing what she has. <p> She of course cried her eyes out as usual, but this
was different. She told me how she hates herself for
having the first affair. She feels that she doesn't
deserve me or the kids since she screwed up all our
lives. <p> She said she was SHOCKED that when I found out about
the affairs(the first 2, anyway)that I really did
still love her anyway. That I wanted to do anything
and everything I could to try and keep the family
together. She said that when she realized that I still
loved her and never stopped loving her, she was
completely crushed by what she had done.<p> She said that she has been trying to make me and the
kids hate her, so we will leave her to find someone
who deserves us. That she does not deserve the love we
hold for her. She said she could not allow us to love
someone like her any longer. That she is screwed up
mentally and would only hurt us again.<p> She finally told me that she would go to counseling
to attempt to fix her issues. Then when she got a
handle on what she has done and the reasons for it,
she wants us to go together, and again with the kids. <p> In the meantime she would remain seperated from me,
but would be here with us most every day if we wanted
her to be. Or, would stay away if that was my wish. (per my Plan B letter?)<p> As for her telling me to stay until after Christmas,
she says she wanted us to spend Christmas as a family.
That she just could not see us being apart on that
day. And that she has been thinking about the
counseling for a long time but was affraid I would not
understand or go for help myself. That was why she
freaked out with my Plan B letter. <p> I am posting to the recovery board as well for any who may have been through something similar. <p> All replies welcome.<p> So, what do you guys think?

Wow, jdmac1, I think that is AWESOME!<p>I think that your wife has had some time to come to grips with her feelings to the point where she could express them to you.<p>It sounds like she has been punishing herself and sabotaging the marriage out of self-hatred--not out of a lack of love for you.<p>It sounds like she wants to get her act together.<p>I can certainly understand if you don't want to spend Christmas apart from your family.<p>I don't know what a solid MBer in Plan B would recommend to you right now, as we are all too familiar with WS's using BS's for their own selfish interests. So I can't really comment on that, although, I'm sure that people will warn you to be careful and not just totally drop your guard of protection, a.k.a. PLAN B! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>MY heart says spend the holidays with your family. Sheesh! Life is too short. But you must listen to your own heart and mind. You know what would be best for the 5 of you. Meanwhile, I'll be prayin' for ya!<p>You certainly deserve to have a nice Christmas to make up for that sucky Thanksgiving regarding the car situation... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Whatever you decide, I support you. Many BS's would love to be in your shoes as it seems you have the upper hand right now.

p.s.You can really negotiate bigtime right now. Maybe exchange Christmas Day together for some counseling with Steve Harley in advance!!????? (If you can swing it - $$$$) Heck, it's worth it, right??

jd - a breakthrough in the making, it sounds like. I agree with BIN completely - if you can, talk to Steve, but do all you can to cultivate her willingness to get into counseling with ANYONE.<p>You are now way beyond my experience - continue on the recovery board.<p>Good luck,
WAT

JD, welcome to my life!!! I heard those exact same words from my H prior to D-day. He was suffering from severe depression and there was NOTHING I could do to help. He would always keep hurting me mentally, he tried to make me HATE him, then finaly, like BTDT said he, "sabatoged the marriage due to self-hatred".<p>I think you handled that beautifully, you are right to want her to work out her issues before you get back together.<p>BUT, she has pulled your strings before and you jumped right?<p>My advice to you is get confirmation by her ACTIONS before you do ANYTHING. Don't go by the words, stick to plan B until you are sure she is serious this time. Even if that means Christmas isn't what you planned - make it special anyway.<p>My H also said similar stuff, but he wasn't ready to do anything about it - he just freaked because of MY plan B letter. Promises, promises, but did not follow through with words.<p>The first couple of times, I believed his words - turned out to be him pulling my strings. It wasn't until I DIDN'T jump, and I waited for the actions (and lots of them) before I knew he was serious.<p>This is excellent news, I am VERY happy for you JD. I just hope you can stick with it, and your W is serious enough to make the changes she says she's going to.<p>BTW, it was HELL for me to stay in plan B when my H was CLAIMING this and CLAIMING that. It was during our anniversary and I wanted so bad to believe him, to get out of plan B and rush into his arms. BUT I DIDN'T. And it was all the better for me, because I think it finally made him realize that I WAS SERIOUS THIS TIME.<p>Hugz,
HbH

Thanks BIN, WAT, HBH,<p> I appreciate your replies. I am trying to take this very slowly. I want to see her in
counseling before I make any major decisions. She called a little while ago just to say hi.
I asked her if she found herself a counselor today. She said no, but that she did try to
call one.....<p> We'll see what happens. I cannot wait forever to see her finally take serious actions. I
told her this as well. She must get in counseling ASAP. Then "we" can move forward
with counseling together.<p> Should I go back to a short Plan A?<p> Anyone else?<p> jd

Hi, JD!
I hope you get some more opinions on this.<p>I agree with HBH. (I remember her going through those things.) I believe you should stay in Plan B until you see some definite steps on her part.<p>It's very tempting to believe her promises, but I think you should be cautious... as you are saying. I am afraid that a Plan A will make her too comfortable, and she won't believe that you will ever follow through with PLan B.

Well I think it is good news, even if she is playing you. It tells me she does want the marriage. The question is is she wanting the marriage to work on things or so she can continue her ways. <p>I still think she should move back in, I think if she really wants to work on things she shouldn't need to live in a different house. Moving back in would be a big sign of her commitment. It seems that she is still wanting to staying seperated, what could her reasons for this be? The only thing that her living in a different house can do is provide a safe place where she can continue to live a secrete life.<p>E

Hmmm... I don't think you should go back to plan A yet!!! Wait til you have some counseling and see some commitment on her part--as in, NO CONTACT with OM's, taking responsibility for her wrongs, demonstrating repentant behavior, reassuring you with attention and affection, etc... <p>I just think the holiday glitter is getting to the both of you.<p>I know the finances are adding up with you two living apart, but you are getting geared up to rebuild your foundation! It can't have any cracks in it! You both have to work on changing or else you will be back in the same rut! Take your time! Play it smart. If it's right today, then it will be right tomorrow.<p>Affairs don't happen overnight, there is a progression. Rebuilding is a progressive, gradual thing and OMG, watch out for those triggers!<p>You can have a happy holiday season with your guard up. I would keep it up if I were you. I could be overreacting, but I would hate to see you get disappointed!!! Try to avoid having Christmas be a negative trigger for you in the years to come!!! My heart goes out to those who are currently in the frame of mind where they can't even celebrate Christ's birth without feeling depressed. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

jd - re: Plan A.<p>I say stay in Plan B until she meets your conditions which I suspect are a committment to ending all contact with OM and recommitting to your marriage. If she's not yet there, you're not yet finished with Plan B.<p>That said, any contact must be conducted in a Plan A like manner. Tell her you miss her and you're looking forward to working on your marriage together. If she responds with less than an enthusiastic endorsement, simply say you'll be ready for more communication when she's ready to work.<p>I don't know if you work with Steve or not, but it's not too late to start. This is dicey territory and some guidance from a professional can be priceless.<p>Good luck,
Wat

Faith, SEM, BIN, WAT,<p> Thanks. Your wisdom and encouragement are greatly appreciated. <p> Well, on the subject of moving in. That wasmy first condition to her verbally. She was the one that said she would not move back before some of her issues were cleared up via counseling. <p> After getting these replies, I am glad she didn't agree to that right away at least. Although, I am concerned that SEM could have a valid point. Or, she may be completely honest on this. Who really knows? I am not too sure, at this point, that she may know.<p> WAT, Thanks. I like what you said. Do not go to Plan A, but be sure any contact remains Plan A type contact. Believe me I have been slipping in that regard. <p> Thing is, she is calling me and even stopping by. I have not tried very hard to stop this for fear that I may blow her wanting to finally work on things. I have and will continue to push for speedy counseling help. First for her(that was her choice)then for us. Heck, I would even start counseling with her today if I knew that would help her get in to see someone. <p> BIN, As for the glitter of the holiday season... Well, I have absolutely no excitement for the season. In fact I do look on it with dread. Sad I know. But if it is getting to WS, then I can handle the blahs of the season. <p> jd