<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

O4,<p>If she's following the guidance/advice of a lawyer then she's removing the evidence. If she's not with a lawyer then I'd say she's still removing evidence and probably feels a little exposed because of what she's written.<p>Either way, my take would be evidence - the letters must involve some pretty heavy stuff.<p>How are you doing?<p>- Freddy

I agree with Freddy entirely. I am a corporate attorney, never did any divorce work, but it sounds to me that she is trying to destroy the evidence. In some states, evidence of an affair may be admissible in a divorce proceeding on the issues of maintenance (alimony) and child custody.<p>I wouldn't return the letters or at least make complete copies before you do so.

Did you ask her?<p>Could be she's embarassed by them. My recollection is that they were very personal. Maybe she doesn't feel that "open" any more.<p>Could also be that, given your recent progress towards affection, she wants to move forward and the letters represent a period she wants to bury.<p>Regardless of what her motive is, maybe you should be nonchalant about it and honor her request. If you're suspicious of her motive you can always make copies first. This, of course, would be incendiary and require you to be sneaky.

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

oooo, do you have other evidence of her affair (if need be). If so, then ask her to destroy the letters together, it would be a nice bonding experience.<p>If not, please make a copy of just one letter that mentions it. I know your wife seems earnest, but some of the WS's here, well, you know. Just protect yourself please.<p>One copy of one letter that isn't so horrible, isn't going to kill you. And, if you do get back together, you can destroy it a few months from now down the road.<p>It does sound like things are moving in the right direction and getting better. I am praying for you, but you also need to be honest with yourself and watch out for OOOO!!!<p>Hugz,
HbH

OOOO,<p>I agree with WAT here. I bet she does feel shame about what she has done and what is in those letters. Maybe she sees them as the last thing between her and her fresh start.
The suspicious side of me says make copies. I know. It kind of makes you feel bad. I like WAT's choice of words - incendiary.<p>take care,
cleo

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by cleopatra:
<strong>OOOO,<p>I agree with WAT here. I bet she does feel shame about what she has done and what is in those letters. Maybe she sees them as the last thing between her and her fresh start.
The suspicious side of me says make copies. I know. It kind of makes you feel bad. I like WAT's choice of words - incendiary.<p>take care,
cleo</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I agree with the wise ones Wat & Cleo.<p>and you know what I think

Honesty....we all want it in our marriage. Fact is she has not been honest with you about many things. Remember the times when a little honesty was all you needed to remain sane. It was like pulling teeth from a tiger.<p> I want you to be honest. But at the same time I want you to protect yourself. My advice is that you make copies of the remaining letters, then take the originals to her and tell her that you found them, then ask that you both destroy the letters together. Then, after a reasonable time, destroy the copies, assuming everything in your marriage is going fine. <p> I know it goes against the principle of honesty, but why take the chance? You have the tools that could possibly help you if her motives aren't pure. Please think on it before you give those tools away to be destroyed.<p> I wish you the best.<p> jd

OOOO, <p>Bro, I go with JD. My protector shield is going up with this one. If she has had run inns with others than this may be destroying the evidence thing. If she is trying to restore trust then she would understand your need to keep stuff. I have stuff. My decision, my stuff. <p>They pull that same stuff on us. When they whine about that hindering recovery, I would send back. That's right you are making me feel uncomfortable since I am not sure on why you feel the need to destory stuff. What are you trying to hide? Say it much nicer of course..... you know me....kinda in the angry mode right now.... he he he... [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You know when she is trying to hide something and don't let her pull you into that game. I think after a few times of that, you start to feel better knowing that you are able to stop from playing their games. I tell H he can play those games out there without us. I mean it!!! <p>Temper my thoughts with lot s of salt. As I said, now I am trying to think smarter. As a result some of the emotion gets put aside. And it is easier to focus. <p>Hoa aloha,
L.

OOOO,<p>Pls forgive me, but your W sounds somewhat paranoid. I can't imagine why she'd want them back aside from perhaps fearing you'll use them against her one day. <p>Or ... as I think of it more, I believe she may feel some shame. When you wrote she also shredded your letters I thought it isn't what she's written to you that's she fears someone reading, it's, IMVHO, simply the idea there is hard evidence that she has been less than true in your marriage.<p>Whatcha think?<p>Jo

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by OffOnOnOff:
<strong>
WAT, I know what you meant about being nonchalant about it. Should I ask her why? And if she wants to destroy them, should I ask her to destroy them together, so that we could bury them and move forward with our new life together?.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Well, if you didn't ask her "why" to begin with, I'd not ask her now unless the question easily fits into whatever additional conversation you have about this. You know what I mean - if she seems willing to talk about it, the "why" question can be asked because it's a very reasonable question for you to ask. <p>Also, if she wants to destroy them, I'd shy away from suggesting a ceremony unless you're confident that the reason she wants to destroy them is to move forward rather than destroying legal evidence.<p>Please keep in mind that I have NO direct experience here in ANY aspect of recovery. I'm just trying to apply reasoned logic, which, as we know, may not be understood on the Mothership.

OffOnOnOff,<p>My 2¢ w/o LB let her know that you will help to destroy the letter yourself when you two works thing out, what ever the outcome is. If she said it will hinder recovery you could tell her that those letters are locked and will not be opened during recovery or look back at. I am too paranoid when WS is asking something and I am tired of guessing. Talk fogese back to them and do the opposite.

oo.....I too wrote a lot of stuff, a little different, was emails and such to ow, I had saved most of it ( I am one of those who is a um....chronic archiver I guess). When dd came she demanded to know what was in the safe deposit box I had (and she had found a couple of the emails already), I resisted for 5 months, as I tried to come to grips with everything including radical honesty. I finally decided she should be able to see them, it would provide more truth than I would ever tell voluntarily, and I owed her that. The ow was very distressed over this, fearing my w would reveal these things to her H, she preferred he not see her inner thoughts (be very painful to him), I felt the same re my w, but after much contemplation I concluded that witholding the written record (by destroying it) would be a further self-serving act of betrayal. She needed to know how I felt, without having to worry if I was editing or being untruthful.<p>I still did not trust her enough yet to let her see the stuff, but I did change the box to one requiring 2 signatures to enter (hers and mine) and I gave her all the keys. A couple months later when I admitted the A was pa as well as ea I agreed to open the box and let her read the stuff. I told her she really should not read this stuff unless she was prepared to deal with the private thoughts of another relationship, that it would distress her alot, make her angry a lot, and maybe never be able to get it out of her mind. She essentially told me stop telling her what to do. She read the stuff was quite distressed, LB'ed all over the place, and still regularly beats me up with some of the content.<p>I have a strong desire to permanently remove the stuff, for several reasons. 1. is so it cannot be used as a personal weapon against me. 2. is cause I really don't ever want anyone else reading it, and as long as it is out of my control that is a risk. 3. cause it can be used against ow in a vindictive fashion. A fourth reason would be legally in a divorce proceeding (my w has made it clear she has copied and saved parts of it for expressly that purpose)...but that is not a real concern for me, cause I would admit to all of this anyways, it would be despicable to call my wife a liar in court....I may be a lot of things, but trashing her integrity is not one of them.<p>My guess is your w is not comfortable with you yet, and doesn't think she is going to be in the future, she has told you the stuff (was honest) and now wants to destroy the records cause it is no one elses business. That is fair enough IMO. But is not her choice, this is your life too, and your stuff too, you can honor her request, that may be a good thing, but you should be able to also tell her you prefer to keep them for now and not have that be LB'er. The thing is memories start drifting and both ws/bs rewrite history. Until you have written a new future, a solid future (whether together, or apart), where all this stuff is truly "history" having the written record has value, not to "get" anyone, but just to keep the record straight, an accountability sort of thing. It sounds to me like right now everything is still very uncertain, and therefore now is not the time to destroy important parts of this puzzle. You coould lie, (tell destroyed, or copy and give em to her) that is not conducive to rebuilding trust of course, but is justified as an exigent circumstance IMO.<p>Also it could be as simple as legal issues. If she is manipulating you in her legal best interest you must decide whether taking the high road (and being legally at a disadvantage later) is more character building for you, or pragmatically covering your legal [censored] is ok, and responsible. Only you can decide that. Or you can tell her the truth, that you do not feel it appropriate to destroy the written record at this time, it is important to your healing process, and you would appreciate her leaveing it up to you, not asking again, and waiting till you tell her at some future date what you have done. IMO that is the honest reply, will gain you insight into her state of mind (how she reacts, she should accept that), and does not compromise your honesty principles. You could ask her precisely what she is concerned about, and if it is being revealed to others tell her (truthfully, otherwise don't), you have no intention of revealing the content, and will respect her privacy. <p>That is essentially sort of what I did. I told my w this was for her eyes only, she agreed, although what she might reveal to the om was a little gray, and IMO the one other person who has a right to such information is the other betrayed, I think that is kind of a law of the universe thingy, something I cannot ethically supercede anyways. But if we divorce, I expect it returned, it is no longer something that she as a claim on. Since you are not divorced, it is a part of your reality IMO.

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

Well, I am in kind of a cynical mood, but.........<p>I have learned that when a WS wants something, it is always for a reason to cover their own back. There are red flags all over that request, and she must think you don't have a brain to realise it.<p>Take copies of all those letters, and it doesn't matter if you can see a reason yet....there will be one.<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky

Aren't letters legally the property of the person to whom they were addressed?<p>I say copy 'em. Then lovingly return the originals. Or even "reluctantly." Two things I'm not in a hurry to be again: naive and stupid.<p>Rose Red