Despite being separated H and I have found ourselves being intimate on the odd occasion, but never fully consumed, probably because I've just had a baby. Sometimes I feel inadequate with him thinking sex must have been great for him in his A with OW. It could be we're not in a committed relationship so trust and security isnt there. But would that ever return? Is sex that fantastic in A's and if so how does one ever get over it - both parties that is? How can he forget? How can I feel confident? Will I feel this way with a new partner if it ever happened? <p>Dancer

IMHO, sex is fun if that is all it is just sex. If sex is part of the relationship then it takes on a greater meaning. <p>In the A, sex is usually just that. So eventually (like a new toy), the fun wears out. In a commited relationship, it does not wear out as quickly (it could but more likely not) because there is more there. Care and nurturing along with that feeling of togetherness coupled with the actualy act makes it a deeper action. That is why the OW is sooooo offended and feel that
'emotional adultery' is being committed against them when the WS returns to the BS. Couldn't be farther from the truth but some of them are dumb enough to believe it. <p>L.

But...<p>h and ow say that A wasnt about sex. so they were and i'd say still are emotionally attached. so what sort of sex is it then? is it truely meaningful? they would say so. I only wished it was all about sex - atleast i could see a therapist and learn how to improve.<p>Dancer

Right..... and you believe that? Ask your H if her H would believe that or would he if you were having an A. How about, well if this emotional connection stuff is sooo good for the both of you, can we all watch and learn? Oh boy, I am being sarcastic again. See my H fed me that line of crap also. Turned out OW was already claiming to be prego. Now how does one get prego from just talking?<p>L.

On...not my H. He claims that this is all about sex. He claims that this 28 year old has the same genetic disposition as he does...they are wired for sex. <p>He says that there is a word society uses for women like his OW and he realizes that is what was missing from his life. Great huh???<p>Interesting how this happened when my sex drive is at the highest it has ever been in our marriage...and his had been floundering for the last few years.<p>It will be interesting to see what happens with them. To give up you family with 4 kids and a loving, supportive wife for a sex kitten. She is not even cute...so it must be the sex.<p>Actually, I think that is a bunch of hogwash. She thinks he is a god walking on water....her idol....never found anyone that makes her feel so sexy and loving. OH...that letter was difficult for me to read...made me want to throw-up.

My H said that sex was an 'afterthought.' After d-day we were intimate almost everyday...I think this was a big LB to her...she didn't understand that sex was never a problem for us...(just lack of frequency for me...not him)....<p>I'm not sure I still get that part...that their emotional connection was so strong...and our physical one was so strong...which one wins out? not sure...<p>He has written that my greatest connection with him is physical...what does that mean? Oddly enough...sex brought us together...first date even...<p>I think, dancer, it just depends on the kind of affair it was...some are purely sex...and some are emotional...

Dancer..<p>As a divorced BS, I will never understand why someone would decide to have an affair in the first place! How could you do that UNSPEAKABLE thing to someone that you vowed to cherish until death do you part???? Two Months after our divorce, my wife told me that she was very sorry for the pain that she put me through over the past 2 years! I would say in answer to you question, I would say NO! I never had an affair and I would never even think about it!<p>Bryan [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Dancer..<p>Don't even think about having a "get even" affair! It will backfire severely on you! It always does!

Speaking only for my own experience...sex with the OM was not even close to what I have with my H.
So it wasn't about sex...it was the EN of needing to be 'wanted'...something H was too wrapped up in himself to do at that time.

IMHO....having been 'the other man'....is sex better in an A than when married? I would have to agree, it the wanting to be wanted.<p>The best sex I have ever had was during this A....because we both were in broken relationships where we were not wanted...The sex filled the 'wanting' part of the relationship since we could not spend a lot of quality time together...<p>Now, you also asked, would you ever find that trust again....of course you will. Just about the time that you decide that you will never find someone, you will. If you don't throw this off and just jump back in, you will never trust.

It was incredible with OM.
It was never so great with H.<p>I think that has to do with who they are and their attitudes toward sex.

As for the 'why not'---simply because I desperately love my husband and I didn't love the OM 'that way'...<p>It may also have to do with the fact that H is 30 years old and OM is 40. Guess phsiology just catches up with ya.<p>[ December 10, 2001: Message edited by: diddallas ]</p>

Dell..<p>People like you just amaze me!! Since you have been married to and divorced from the same woman twice, doesn't that give you a clue that affairs are bad????? <p>You know, I was a BS for 2 years and my wife withdrew all intimacy with me while she was having the affair. Did I ever think of having an affair, NO! Here is a question for you....during your affair, did you ever consider the affects of adultery on your children???? My wife told me 2 months after our divorce that divoricing me was the worst thing she has ever done! <p>Affairs never solve anything! They are at best, and temporary band aid!

Personally I tend to agree with whoever said that it depends on the reason that the A began.<p>I have been a wayward partner as well as OW. When I was feeling really loving and connected to my partner (boyfriend) it was wonderful. But when things got rough between us and I turned to MM it was great feeling loved and desired.<p>I think that more sex happens between the ears than it does between the legs.<p>No simple answers to this question, aside from just saying "it all depends."

Dancer,
First, I believe it is very difficult at times to determine what is accurate in the confessions of WS's -- I have perception that many times they say things to justify their actions and other times perhaps to hand out some pain -- to get even for what they perceived were miss-treatments by the BS -- like sometimes they have an A to get the attention they thought they were lacking from BS.
Other times, I think it is definitely a matter of lust -- there could not help but be a little more sexual tension & charge in the A, because of the "forbidden" nature of it all. Like it was said before the part of between the ears compared to between the legs. Some would not admit to such basic instincts, thinking that they have an imagine to protect & they are not so shallow to fall prey to "Causual Sex!"
When I re-read your original intro -- it seems that your H is not totally, morally committed to the OW, or you & he would not have been intimate?!
I am saying there may not be that "emotional attachment" as it is offered as reason at times!
I know in my case I believe a part of this "charge" was because my WS was receiving some specialized, again forbidden, attention -- it validated some otherwise inadequate feelings that she was in fact attractive to other men (young men gave it a bigger boost!) & desirable -- when you think about it, who would not want or like that extra attention? Most of us understand the inherent risks & chose not to act on such impulses. To the WS, the set of circumstance is so compelling at times, they don't recognize the risks aspects -- don't think they'll get caught!
What makes it difficult, I think, is to get at the real truth in that different people will promote different aspects, depending on their perspective to offer their perceived "justification."
I know in my case we were very active, physically & we were actually getting along great & I had been spending more recreational time with her in things she liked to do -like antique shopping, actually the Saturday before D/D, the following Wednesday. I know on D/D night when I had a marathon with her to drag out a detailed confession, she has said that the sex that particular day was not very good & he pulled up lamp at the post, if you know what I mean. Yet, for the prior six months she pursued these guys as much as they did her, at least initially ( as I understand it) & she said the reason she could not stop in so many words was that it was "exciting" and that she got caught up in a game.
I don't know if the actual physical act was any more spectacular, but I'm sure because of the added spice that it was forbidden & in a sense dirty, this added a lot to the mental aspects of the act, which as noted earlier, can be the biggest part! It is for this reason at least in part that many A's fade away in six months, because the novelty and special, forbidden aspect loses it's impact to a degree. Also, physiologically I understand that in a new infatuation there are certain hormones triggered that after six months, these diminish. This is where the more mature love instincts kick in & that is what a long term relationship is based on -- more than the basic sexual charges!
I believe in my case my DW realized that it was a fantasy of sorts -- the guy she was with in the end was married with two or three kids & she said at one point the she realized that when she grew older, her physical appeal to the somewhat younger guy would dwindle. She said this in the context that she did not have long term expectations with these particular guys.
You'll note that she is 49 & I am sure a big part of her motivation was the validation she received for her youthful appeal. MLC! I remember on D/D my WSW offered idea that we had been getting along better than ever & I responded with, then why did you go through with it. Her reply was an emphatic, &#8220;My God the guy was 36!&#8221; As if to say, if given the opportunity, who would not do such a thing! Yes, I know, the ultimate in self-centered attitude! Don&#8217;t we come to expect this in the typical WS?!
I believe an individuals sex drive can be all powerful forces that some people simply do not have the will power to resist temptation or control. Let's face it, haven't we all had thoughts in our minds or fantasies that we normally don't act on. Who can say for sure what causes one person to act out & others to show constraints. Sometimes it is more than just a moral question. Sometimes it is a strong physiological force that we can't explain or perhaps control [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] . But yes, overall I believe the sex part of it, for the most part is a strong factor -- not everyone would want to admit to this lack of control with such animalistic instincts; as it would seem too immoral w/o emotional attachment -- we like to think we are more sophisticated & have more control.
I don't believe most WS thought they would be caught -- after they are caught, I believe they tend to do & say a lot of things that are not necessarily true -- they say things that they think from their perspective at least, that will not make them look as bad, as immoral or foolish. IMHO, Rationalization & Justification become big motivating FACTORS FOR WS TO EXPLAIN TO OTHERS WHY THEY DID WHAT THEY DID.
THE "SEX WAS GREAT" PART COULD BE THE WS'S WAY OF RATIONALIZING OR JUSTIFYING A LACK OF MORAL CONVICTION TO BS.
I believe this is the gist of DR. Harley's point as to why it is important for everyone concerned to have a strong policy of openness & honesty.
I Hope for the best in your situation,
HH<p>[ December 10, 2001: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

Well.....<p>OW and family are moving here from interstate next week (i originally moved from there to get away from her in hope my h might come back) and h and ow still have considerable contact. should i be concerned? would they still be emotionally attached (A was found out 14months ago and had lasted for a few months, i think). is it possible they can remain friends? and am i a fool for wanting and being physical with my h? does it have potential to ruin us or unite us? is he just using me and am i using him???? because shes coming here should i back off?<p>sorry.... ihave so many unanswered thoughts....<p>Dancer

Dancer,
Lots of interesting questions, you're right!
The intimacy thing??? I'm not the most qualified becasue in my case the Lust aspect compared to "love" has been an issues I have difficulty indenifying myself in my relationship with my DW.
I have this believe that with physical intimacy there comes a certain bonding & emotional attachment -- logical, huh. I don't believe this is true with everyone however.
Guys have the reputaion that they can very easily seperate sex from love -- that is it is no problem & they feel no guilt with causal sex. I believe there are women with same attributes. Being intimate with your H? If in doubt as to whether it is pure lust or love or a combination, I would tend to go for it!
Now, in terms of his relationship with OW, I am not a trusting person & would not want my S to have any contact -- Have you seen the old movie with Billy Crystal, "When Harry Met Sally" ?
This may not be most healthy attitude, but I tend to agree with Crystals premise that it is impossible for a guy & gal to have a strict planontic relationship -- you'll remeber Sally asks Harry, What about the really ugly Gal? Billy's answer: "Yea, we prety much want to nail them as well!" Now of course nothing is that Black & white, but let's not be neive about the human capacity for lust!
Here is an intersting article regarding this topic that someone referred to me: Handling <p>Sexual Tension in Marriage -- Platonic relationship?<p>http://www.growthtrac.com/articles/article_30_1130.shtml

If I were you, I would do everything possible to enforce the idea that if you & your H are to reconsile you insist on no contact.
Best of Luck,
HH

just my experience as an exOW, XMM told me that he couldn't say that sex was better with me than it was with his wife or with his wife than me, it was just different. Different styles, different techniques. I guess it just depends on the circumstances surrounding that individual A. For me personally, XMM was not the greatest sexual partner I've ever had (although he liked to think so [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] ) We were involved for almost 4 yrs so to me it wasn't all about sex. After my meeting with his wife, I found out XMM basically said and did things that best fit his needs so I can't honestly say if it was all about sex to him or not. Hope that helps some.

I'm seeing what I view as a lot of wishful thinking here, sprinkled with a little bit of truth and reality.<p>I want all of you to think back to the first kiss that you had with your (then future) spouses. Wasn't that the most powerful, energetic, passionate experience that you'd had for quite some time? I think most will agree, yes. Now, imagine the LAST kiss you had with them. Did you have any of those "butterflies" in your stomach, did the passion burn, was it a moment you could live in for eternity? I doubt it.<p>IMHO, sex in an A is much the same as that first kiss. As a matter of fact, their first kiss was probably AT LEAST as powerful as YOUR first kiss. On top of being the first kiss, there was the forbiddenness, the danger, the heightened emotions all around. All those things get wrapped up in the experience.<p>Dell said,
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>The best sex I have ever had was during this A....because we both were in broken relationships where we were not wanted...The sex filled the 'wanting' part of the relationship since we could not spend a lot of quality time together... <hr></blockquote><p>I would agree, not only because of the EN being met, and the DESIRE and DESIRED feelings, but also because of the factors mentioned above.<p>Moreover, I believe that the sex in the A will MOST CERTAINLY (granted every situation is different) be better than the sex in the M at that time. Think about it, the M is suffering because of deceit, hurt, EN not being met. There are frequent fights, communication is down, TRUST is down. Pick any one of those and alone, they'll impede the largest sexual organ in the human body, the brain. Sure it CAN be good, especially if one of the partners doesn't know what's going on, and the other is actually making love to (fantasizing about) someone else, but then it's not REALLY the married couple having sex, is it?<p>I also think that the answer you'll get is different depending on the timing. Once a WS comes home to stay, I doubt they'll be truthful (maybe they try to block it out) about just how good the sex had been. Maybe they don't want to hurt the BS, maybe the sex began to get "routine" in the A and lose some of its power. Maybe....<p>But if you ask a WS who's in the middle of the A, I'll bet that the answer would be that the sex is much better in the A.....if, you could somehow pry the truth out of them.<p>Just my opinions,
Kev

Well all I git when I popped that question to WH was:<p>"No it wasn't better, OW was selfish, rude, and harsh."<p>On his defense he just had sex with her once, once we were engaged, but they had been a couple for years before he met me and he broke it off once she had gotten all the money she could from him to later run to her former boyfriend.<p>He confessed sex was never actually good with anyone he ever dated, that these women seemed to be able to not love him at all but still have sex, irregularly, and when it happened he'd be just wondering off and thinking of something else, (porn and other women, this later took a bad twist because even when he claimed I am the best lover a man could ask for, he was so "used" to it he continued wondering off).<p>I think both men are women can do the dettaching sex part. His exgf insinuated she wanted to continue sexual contact with him even after she moved away from where he lived, only if he could not think of it as something other than sex. She is indeed a repulsive being, too bad it took him so long to see that, and that, according to him, the only time he decided to do what she wanted about sex he had to do it when he had already found me, go figure (I am wondering if that is a lie too [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] )<p>Sex sucks, Love Making, now that is a different matter. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]