<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>She probably feels that since she's gone down the wrong road so far already she may as well keep going as your marriage would be impossible to fix.( in her mind) This is what my H thought he tells me now. OW really encouraged this line of thinking with him-she told him that I might forgive him and take him back for a few months just to get rid of her but then I'd revert to all my LB ways and treat him badly and he'd want out again. You can bet your W is believing whatever OM is telling her about the future of your marriage. Its not tell reality creates actual bad things for them that they think things thru for themselves as opposed to believing their OP's views. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Wow, LiM, this was really what I needed to hear tonight!<p>I have recieved some very disturbing things in the mail in the past few days....things that tell me WH is continuing on in his "quest" for a quick D. - as well as some indications that he's apparently been to a Dr. lately. Hmmmm, must be a slice of that "reality" you are talking about!! Up till now, he's been TOTALLy selfish, unconcerned about my feelings, interests, wishes, attempts to work on the M, anything....<p>I tried to start up a thread about "Giver Snap" - trying to understand it better, but I didn't really get too many responses, or at least none I could understand! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>My WH has become a classic MLC'er, with all the signs and symptoms! As well as a TAKER in every sense of the word, and frankly I don't even recognize him anymore (not that I see him or anything....), so it's hard to imagine what could possibly "snap" him out of this state he's in. Then I read your response to sad dad (I think), and it made a lot of sense.<p>IF he's sick, has been to Dr. Or "been in an auto accident" (didn't tell ME!), then that might be the beginning of a "wake-up call" that he'll need to snap him out of this FOG he's in. I was just beginning to believe there was no fog AT ALL,and that he truly wants OUT of our M. But deep down, NO WAY do I believe that! I tend to believe more that it's what you said, that he's "so far into it" that he cannot POSSIBLY come back....might as well go through with it. I'm praying for him to figure out that there IS a way home.<p>We never even had a foul or cross word up to and including the day he left! THAT doesn't sound like a horrible M or place to be, does it? I guess it's that lack of "bad scene" that keeps any of this from making any sense to me, but it just keeps coming and deepening.<p>Anyway, thanks for the comments. They made a lot of sense. I take great comfort in knowing that your situation isn't a lot different from ours, and you're on the road to recovery!<p>Lupo

HI Lupo- I remember YOU from the prayer boards- Heaven knows people in our spot need plenty of those!!! You are in the spiritual battle of your life trying to get your H to come out of darkess back into the light of day. I visited several pastors during the time my H was with OW and believe me they say that his was classic MLC fueled by an aggressive single OW who wanted him at ANY cost! She was willing to say or do anything to get him away from me. I have proof- found a card in H's briefcase a few wks ago from that time and OW had written to H saying she was his soulmate and that she wanted him in her life FOREVER! H was so mixed up I think he followed Bruce Springsteen's song lyrics- "I took a wrong turn and I just kept goin!..." Its taken H months to feel empathy for me and realize what he risked-he had emotionally detached himself from me as his EA became more and more involved and led to a PA that started at his company xmas party last year. ( spouses werent invited! so much for company policy!)Anyway if your H does come back and I think he will- most DO- be prepared for him to not know if he wants to be married for awhile and for a long period of emotional withdrawal from OW- my H didnt touch me for 2 mo after final contact with OW and joint counseling began for us. But now he's back to his old SELF- warm and kind to me if thats a comfort to you! I learned tons from what H has told me was going on and from author Emily Brown's books about affairs- she covers the mid life male affair very thoroughly. You could get a copy of her book Affairs from your library or at the use'd book site online- half.com. Are you reading Power of a Praying Wife' too? Excellent book I read it every night. Feel free to ask me any questions- I have been served with D papers and BACK!!!! lifeismessy PS I am STUNNED at how conniving and influential OW was in my H"s life- its truly AMAZING! I have had to DEPROGRAM him for months since he came back to me!!!

lupo,<p>I saw you copied a quote from my most recent thread. Lifeismessy has a terrific understanding of the mindset of WS's during EA's (or PA's). Her advice to me has been invaluable. I too questioned whether the "fog" exists. It doesn't exist as far as our WS's feelings go, but I believe it definately exists in their perception of reality. My W also wanted a quick D, it's their way of avoiding the reality of the process. My W has filed already, but she's still living in our home, seeing our daughter as much as usual and has me to provide financial, domestic & family support. Nothing has changed, except papers have been filed. It isn't until reality bites them on the [censored] that the "fog" starts to lift. However, it's possible that once faced with reality, they may still want OP or D, but at least then we (BS's) know they made the decisions based on actual reality and not some false sense of it.<p>sad dad

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by lifeismessy:
<strong>You are in the spiritual battle of your life trying to get your H to come out of darkess back into the light of day. I visited several pastors during the time my H was with OW and believe me they say that his was classic MLC fueled by an aggressive single OW who wanted him at ANY cost!<hr></blockquote></strong>
YES!! YES!! That's it!! "Agressive single OW who wanted him at ANY cost...." They apparently "dated - didn't work out" (his words) in another life, and now she WANTS him!!! She even tried to see him, drove over to where we live (2½ hour drive) about a year before he "succumbed" to her - um - charms.<p><strong>...he had emotionally detached himself from me as his EA became more and more involved and led to a PA </strong>
This was it....exactly. My WH left, though, as soon as it became PA (I THINK, anyway). I'm just piecing it together as I go...just going by what he was doing, what his personality is, etc.
About a week before he left, he said to me, "We REALLY need to start going back to church." WOW. I guess that says it all! He knew. He knew it was a spiritual battle. I'm SURE he was under conviction already, but did it anyway! I kept waiting for HIM to be the "spiritual leader" and get us up and off to church, but he didn't, and now here we are... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]
I know God can (and WILL!!) fix this, but I need my WH to become the spiritual leader of our home. THAT seems far, far away, in light of the fact that he's SOOOO far away from God now. That's where my faith falters.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Anyway if your H does come back and I think he will- most DO- be prepared for him to not know if he wants to be married for awhile and for a long period of emotional withdrawal from OW- my H didnt touch me for 2 mo after final contact with OW and joint counseling began for us. But now he's back to his old SELF- warm and kind to me if thats a comfort to you!<hr></blockquote>
Yes, it's a comfort to know there IS "life after the A ends..." I have NO problem with how long it might take....just that he has TOTALLY immersed her in his life. Has taken her to see his WHOLE family (flew to another state to visit his father, his sister & BIL), his brother and SIL work with her!! Has "forced" his son & DIL to have to entertain her at their home for dinner.... [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] This all seems so FINAL - know what I mean? Like HOW could he back-pedal after taking her around ALL of them? I KNOW God is in control, but this is where my mind fixates so much of the time. I have been pretty good, really, but as the Christmas festivities draw closer, the harder this gets.<p>learned tons from what H has told me was going on and from author Emily Brown's books about affairs-
Share some of what he said to you about "what was going on" please? I will look for Brown's books.<p>Are you reading Power of a Praying Wife' too?
YES!!! Every day!!!<p><strong> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I have been served with D papers and BACK!!!! I am STUNNED at how conniving and influential OW was in my H"s life- its truly AMAZING! I have had to DEPROGRAM him for months since he came back to me!!!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks for the words of encouragement! I have been doing quite well, but this week, with all the "new news" about Dr.s appt. and div. procedure "speeded up" (according to my atty), I have just reached a brick wall. I feel like my faith has GONE AWAY. Poof. In one day, it's like I LOST IT ALL. I'm working on getting it back, getting my head back on God's Word and praying.<p>I'm so confused right now. One school of thought says "Don't contact him...let God do it all..." One school of thought (MB) says "Plan A - Kill him with kindness..." I'm just confused. I'm sorta drifting and lost....haven't felt this way since "D-Day" - but we didn't really HAVE one!! He just left and didn't tell me he had another relationship, he just LEFT, and left a note that said (In part) "I filed for divorce...."<p>I've got LOTS of questions, if you've got the patience!!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Lupo

Hi Lupo- yes your H's actions are quite similar to my H's. My H is 43 and we were married 15 yrs at the time of his A with kids ages 14, 10 and 4. OW is in her mid-thirties- never been married- had had a messy engagement break off right before meeting my H at their workplace.They both work as sales managers and are outgoing and often in after work social situations together. H used to joke to me how she was 'desperate to get married' and could the guys at work find her someone!!!??? Then last valentines Day- I insisted H tell me the truth and he announced that he not only was having an A but that he was not in love with me anymore, was leaving me for her, not ending his A and wouldnt even tell me her NAME for a wk until I finally guessed it! So you can see how set he was on leaving me. He even said, " I know you'll never forgive me, so I"ll be leaving you for her." GEESH! How awful is that to hear??? Oh Satan had the teflon grip on him! Here we'd been going to church for a year and he had been insisting we go to early service then he'd drop me and the kids off at home and say he was going to the gym and off he'd go to OW's condo! Right after hearing long sermons about the 10 commandments! How in Satans grip is that? I thought at the time his affair was an EXIT Affair obviously- yet it fit all the criteria of a split-self affair as defined in Emily Brown's books. That gave me hope that it wasnt necessarily the END of our marriage. Hers were the first books I read that really delved into the soulmate type and cause of affair. I suggest to you that you do a diluted plan A for awhile- time is on your side- delay any legal stuff as long as possible. Keep telling your H that divorce is wrong and that you will never agree to it. I told mine that I would contest it due to my spiritual beliefs rather than just wanting 'revenge' on him. That I have to live with myself and cant compromise my moral and spiritual beliefs just to make things legally easier and cheaper for him. Also realize he is VERY emotionally detached from you and so you need to do the same to some extent to protect yourself from too much emotional devastation. If he calls you often about D- tell him you are against D and wont discuss it further with him. Dont allow him to pull you into an upsetting discussion about divorce. That was some great advice I got from a lawyer in my church who himself is having marriage problems! Take care- lifeismessy

luppo,<p>As I read this thread I see so much of my life unfolding.<p>Will definately get the Brown books and start reading ASAP.<p>Just wanted you know that you are not alone.<p>Just got an e mail this week, the first one sharing how my husband is feeling and the stress that his actions are causing him. Maybe a little fog lift.<p>Am working so hard to be kind, some days I think it could kill me!! But is kind of fun finding new ways to show love without saying the words.<p>Dawn<p>[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: daybreak ]</p>

Thanks, everyone, for your comments.<p>Sad dad, I had read LiM's answers in your thread, but didn't want to intrude on it, so I started my own. I had some additional questions, more customized to my situation, so I figured I needed my own place to ask them.<p>Daybreak, My WH always comments on his "stress" - as tho he's the only one feeling this. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] But I truly DON"T KNOW that it (in his case anyway) it would signal the beginning of fog lifting, since he's "felt" stress levels since the beginning. To throw another dimension into the mix, my WH has gotten NOTHING except "roadblocks" put into his path, from Day One about this "thing!" I guess he hasn't figured that out, yet!! The first time he went to her town when I knew about her, he lied (his bro. lied, his SIL lied, etc...) about needing to go there....SPENT THE NIGHT at Bro's house (yeah, right!!!), and came back very late in the afternoon the next day. Thing is, his truck almost didn't make it home on the highway, cost him over $500 to get it fixed when he got home!! Still he didn't put two and two together.<p>Now, it seems he "fell" a couple of weeks ago. Just putting up a sign, and FELL. Fell over. Boom. Almost landed on his head (!) but instead put out his shoulder, and still has major pain, looking at who knows how long in therapy. This happened just a few days after his last talk w/atty to ask what was going on, and can they "speed it up" a little. He STILL doesn't see the connection. Boy, is that guy THICK, or what?!?!<p>H is in his 50's, OW is 13 yrs younger than he, 8 yrs. younger than I am, single, m at least once (no children that I can figure out). This is about all the info I can gather about her. I don't know much else.....don't care to. SHE's a non-issue. Just a "tool" of the devil anyway, NOT the main problem.<p>Oh, the funny part about your last post is "if he calls you often, don't let him pull into discussion about d." HA! MY H HAS NOT CALLED ME! AT ALL! PERIOD. I DO ALL THE CALLING. this is one of the things that "doesn't look good" to me. I don't see a lot of things that look good as far as him "wanting" to "work on" anything related to our M. The person's story this seems most similar to is Lostva's.<p>So that is a little more about exactly where we are. Sometimes I think I'm "building things up" in my head, and want to make them seem more "positive" than they really are, just cause that's what I want to believe. Ah, well....time alone will tell.<p>God Bless,
lupo<p>[ December 13, 2001: Message edited by: lupolady ]<p>[ December 13, 2001: Message edited by: lupolady ]</p>

Hi Lupo- I wanted to post some things I read during my time of waiting that helped me. First is the book Hope for the Separated by Gary Chapman - it is a book with Christian overtones to it and addresses both aspects of the marriage reconciling or if it isnt possible. If you get discouraged be sure to read from the Bible- Psalm 34, Psalm 62, Deutoronomy 31 verse 6, and my favorite was Jeremiah 29 verse 11 and Romans 8 verse 28. Of course if you have a day when youre really ANGRY read Proverbs 4,5,6, Matthew 19 and Galations 5 and 6. Hope this helps you! When I was going thru all this a great Christian friend of mine went thru her Bible and made me up a huge list of comforting verses such as these and she wrote the first few words they each started with. What a great gift- made me really feel I was NOT ALONE just as YOU are not alone. Take care- lifeismessy

Sorry to jump into your thread, but I was wondering, can The Power of a Praying Wife still help me even though we're divorcing? I don't want the divorce, but can't bring myself to fight it anymore. We're selling our house, he seems to have chosen OW. Any advice?<p>MOM

MOM- The book "The Power of a Praying Wife' by Stormie O'Martian is EXCELLENT! I highly recommend it no matter HOW troubled your marriage is. I truly believe that praying with this book nightly helped to save my marriage and save my H from making the worst mistake of his life. At the very least it will keep your thoughts where they SHOULD be. Take care- lifeismessy