It's been a very busy week.<p>Previously on...<p>I blew up at my family about a 2 weeks ago.
After a couple of days I posted here.
A few days after that I left for CA (8 day trip)
W and MS were worried about me, W knew I would post so she checked.<p>After arriving in CA I met redhat, making arrangements via my post -- I was desparate to talk to someone "real". I didn't ask/tell W about the meeting. Better to ask forgiveness than permission, right?<p>To make a long story short: W asked me some leading questions about my weekend plans giving me a chance to either 'fess up, or lie further. I confessed. W didn't tell me how worried she was about me meeting someone I didn't know (but she was).<p>Redhat was very confused that I considered my W and I to be in recovery when we do so little talking to one another. How could we address any problems or change things.<p>I guess that prompted me question W about her email, what made her ask about my plans. I had assumed that she read my post but didn't ask her about it. I asked her long ago to read my posts... and she read a few... but she quit reading. She said she read the ones she was invited to read, thought of MB as my private diary, so didn't read more than she was asked.<p>So.... this led to a long talk (via email - does that count?). We have big problems with communication. I had hoped she would follow my posts and perhaps ask me about them, much personal stuff that I wish she had seen. She said she would start reading again. I tried to get her to participate here, but she thinks that would make things too easy for me, that I would never have to talk to her IRL.<p>Strange that I have to leave town to talk to her, but that's the way it's been lately. The week away has worn me down, I almost didn't have the motivation to post this (this stuff took place last weekend). I mentioned once that I'd be sure to tell people if I ever was able to do any communicating at all, so was this a little?
We have a problem communicating in both directions. My W gave me permission to post one of her responses (thanks sweetie!).<p>
You didn't say anything wrong last night. It got me to thinking and maybe you are right and I haven't been telling you everything I have been feeling either. I just don't dwell on things I guess. I do know that what is going on with you isn't only about us. I figured that out a while ago. I think you are trying to become a different person. That's good because it means you are opening your eyes to what you have here...with OS, MS, D AND me. I'm not sure you ever realised what you have and weren't paying attention to.
<p>Some of you might notice my MLC theme in here... and I thought no one was noticing.<p>Well, here it is dear, the post I promised. Thank you for reading it.<p>Anyone have something helpful or encouraging to say to us.<p>Jeffers

Hugz...to both of you....<p>YES! Read Harriet Lerner's stuff as FamilyMan has suggested.<p>Susan Page's book has some good 'experiments.' (How The One of You Can Keep the Two of You Together).<p>Just talking and really listening...without expectations or trying to 'formulate' your answer before the other person is done...that would be my desire...<p>Also, if H would really...really open up...<p>Jeffers...it's not the MLC that's the problem...it's the actions you take because of it...a MLC can be productive....if you learn and grow.

Cali,<p>Yes, I do a lot of "formulating" before speaking. Others have noticed this about me. In other situations this is a good thing.<p>The hard part about the learning, growing stuff is that I have to make choices. I have trouble if I have to make choices. Why can't I just do or be everything?<p>Jeffers

cause...you can't.<p>My H is a people pleaser too Jeffers...causes him MUCH distress...<p>He can't talk to me either, without weighing his words greatly...<p>WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF? that what you say won't be right? won't be accepted? <p>I'm sure my H feels/felt that way...I hope I get a chance to show him that I am different...and while I won't always agree with what he says...I can still support and understand him.

Cali,
Yeah, I know I can't, that's why I'm in such a predicament now -- gotta make some people unhappy.<p>What am I afraid of? <p>That I won't be right? Maybe.... yes. I guess I'm afraid to be judged as flawed, or faulty. I guess I need to be with "the good guys". Heaven forbid that I find myself on the wrong side of some issue by accident, hence I have to think very carefully. (child discipline for example.) <p>I'm afraid she won't like me if she knows what I really think. She won't like me and tell me so.<p>I'm afraid she won't listen. Won't let me finish if I make a mistake (hence I have to "get it right" the first time). Won't let me go back and explain. <p>Afraid she'll be hurt and show me how hurt she is. I guess I have to deal with that one. Not about me stuff (but it is if it comes from something I say).<p>I know W's listening to this (HI).<p>Sigh... Of course I got to think about this reply before I did it. <p>Jeffers

I lurked too much in plan A/B and almost missed this.<p>Mrs. Jeffers, not to worry, that meeting is my first meeting "offline" too. I didn't have much to said at the time since both of you have and illusions of "in recovery", we end up talking about other MB posters. My first suggestion to Jeffery was to get help from professional, Steve helps me alot. But this is a minor issue for both of you after what had happen in the past. Both of you could work it out on your own. IMO, your H wants more in M and want to protect it and make sure caring & loving M forever. I don't think you want H exploring MLC. I don't think H wants it either and try to find an answer & stay away from it. After knowing MB, I won't settle for less for my M too. Ask H to get you the 4 Gifts of Love by Harley's to protect your M and have a full filling M.<p>Mr. Jeffers,
I think you think too much and a bit perfectionist. How long it took you to write this posting ?. It takes two to tango you know. Learn how to be spontanious and not to keep them inside. You LB'ed last week, no excuse but it is the result of keeping it inside too long. You worry too much and analyze it to death before to speak up. We don't need another SNL here ... LMAO !!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . At the dinner last week you are very guarded, I don't think it is only because of I am a stranger but mostly it is you. Don't worry about speaking up and the reaction of others to it. I am an INTP in Mayer's type but you might guess I am an E type. My point is we choose/control our action on how we interact with others. Try to step outside "your comfort zone", and you have a safe & loving environment within your family to practice.<p>Plan anything for the weekend ?. BE is reeling in a bait of going to an up scale spa in Palo Alto. (sing, my fairie LB, if you read this I did not reply to it again, I brought it up for Jeffery). Why don't you & SO go to a day spa ... get naked and talk [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . No kids, unfamiliar surrounding, nowhere to hide, a perfect place to negotiate on your M. Put down the rule of engagement first to make it safe for both of you to talk. If you do anything else than talk [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] you have to extend your stay there until both of you talk.<p>[ December 14, 2001: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>

redhat,<p>I figured you would check in eventually. Would've bumped it for you if you had missed it.<p>I've taken a very long to reply because I had another "sleep over" at the airport on Friday (has happened my last two trips). Got home Saturday morning and we did Christmas tree shopping (we cut our own). I think W had a very nice (surprise) evening planned but I went to bed at 6:30 pm and slept until about 11am the next day. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Fortunately W is more persistant than that and surprised me with Champagne on Sunday instead. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]
Whole evening to ourselves. We even had a "real talk". Got to ask (and answer) some hard questions!!! <p>Yes, I am a perfectionist. More of an anxiety thing, I don't demand it of others - only I have to be perfect. Really hard the first time I teach a new course cuz I go crazy trying to imagine all possible questions and the bestanswer to each one. I actually do that for these posts too (shouldn't be many typos or misspellings). [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Yes, it took me quite a while to think up and organize this post before I actually wrote it. It takes me even longer to respond to SnL, since his questions are very technical sometimes.<p>I am very surprised to hear you are INTP too. You're right, you do seem to be very "E". Maybe there's hope for me too. BTW, when I answer the questions truthfully on the Keirsey test I am 100% "I" -- pretty bad. <p>My home environment is very safe and loving at the moment. We're working on it. W reading here will hopefully help me. We will get to spend lot's of "nice" time together this month.<p>LMAO at your spa idea. Getting naked helps sometimes - there's a metaphor there, I think, about baring the soul or something. Have to be careful, though, sometimes we have too much fun to talk.<p>Be careful with BE. I noticed on another thread you mentioned that you thought she might be a good "fit". There's no way you could possibly know that without doing more with her than you've done. Having someone actually want to make you happy after your W rejects you is very powerful. If your W came back and showed interest again I think you would wonder why BE seemed like such a good fit...<p>Hope to see you in January.<p>Jeffers

Ok J, <p>Put the calculator away and just go with the emotional flow. Very hard for a person who likes everything lined up and accounted for. Hm...... sounds like..... ME!<p>Well, when the OP tells that to our mates, we get made. But we need to do that with our mates. I am the type that want everything thought out, planned, packed and ready to go, not miss a thing. Ready for every and anything that may happen. H is a spur of the moment kinda guy, will do with whatever...... very different we 2. <p>Now I am having to learn a bit to be like that. Very hard......see I am old and it is hard to teach an ol dog new tricks!@!!!! LOL!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>So the spa thing is a fun idea. don't need to pack much.... he he he <p>Now Redhat, do I have to go and smack you? There are lots of those spa places here. hm..... do I need to cruise that part of the bay? Heck, I don't even know what you look like or car you drive. I'll watch out for a BE on the prowl. Think I can spot one?!??!? If the LB Fairie can't make it maybe we'll just get out the padded baseball bat.... can't remember who I used to share that with..... somebody here at mb.... oh yea, lostinco. <p>RH, all in jest. I am glad you are keeping a clear mind. Sorry for the heist on your thread Jeffers. <p>Best to you both. <p>L.

jeffers,<p>I thought you got stuck in the spa ... LOL !!!. or worst, formulating your reply 'till now.<p>Yes, I am very I too but I managed to control it, i.e choose to soften them whenever is appropriate. One of management brain washing I actually find usefull is about "stepping out our comfort zone". We learned how to change our behavior to match diff. personality types. We learned EQ, Emotional Q., to identify type of others & to switch ours to make the group dynamic work. Could you imagine two I-type (strangers) try to have conversation ?.<p>Thanks for the concern about BE. Her play ground is Orchid's back alley & Orchid could call sing any time to check on me. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>See you in January to compare our progress in persue of happy M. Orchid & Rap. might be able to join too.