Okay so here I am once again. This time I am about at the end of my emotional rope. I won't go into all the details of my H affair, you can read if interested, but it has been over 2 years since he told me and a little over a year since it was over (I think); he will not admit to anything one way or the other. <p>The problem: I just cannot live with his emotional and physical indifference to me any more. It has been years since he has 'shared' anything significant with me or kissed me or touched me, forget sex too. This from a man who was once the most open, affectionate, passionate man I knew.<p>I have tried everything I can think of, I gave him space and didn't talk about us, I have tried to talk about us, I have not pushed myself on him, I have tried to seduce him, I have tried to just show him my love, I have tried to talk about it with him. NOTHING seems to get through to him. I have let time take its course and gone on with my life, always including him if he wanted. But how long does this go on. He shows no signs of wanting to share anything with me except dishwashing. <p>He says that he is happy and at peace - well of course - he is able to do everything he wants, he has someone that serves all his needs and takes good care of him, and he has a warm body that snuggles up next to him at night in bed. Well he could have a housekeeper and a puppy to do all that stuff too. He doesn't need me for that.<p>I guess that is the real problem. The intimacy that we once shared is just not there anymore and it seems like he doesn't care. I DO. That was our connection, our uniqueness...what he gave away to OW. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] And the thing that eludes us now. HOw do I go on like this? What can I do to stop this slow spiral to nothingness for us? <p>I am going to talk to him and tell him how I feel. I don't think that it will do anything but make him angry...he tends to use anger as a means of not having to talk about things that are uncomfortable to him, and has used it to intimidate me in the past. It doesn't work anymore. But I am beginning to think that WE don't work anymore. <p>HOnestly , I don't know WHAT to think anymore, but I find myself crying on the way to work because I am so unhappy with the sitution and that is something that I havn't done for some time now.<p>There are times that I look at him and wonder just who this person is and why I am still living with him. He gives so little and takes so much...I cannot go on like this.

have you tried plan b? If not, are you ready to do so? But you are right, this is no way to live, and is not a marriage (except on paper).

Plan b...hmmm. I had given it some serious thought earlier on, but the how's would be next to impossible. He won't leave, I know I even offered to help move him out and in with her and her H
(yes I was serious). I offered him an exit on more than one occasion but it would have taken a nuke to get him out of the house. I cannot move with 3 kids, 2 dogs and a cat. I will NOT under any circumstances leave them with him, that would be a disaster. If they were younger I would go in a hearbeat, but we have one in college, a jr and two in middle school and I will not do anything that would jeopardize their futures. I know, I know...staying just for the sake of the kids is not a good reason if everything else is the pits. When I told him that I was going to speak to a lawyer at one point he got very nasty and threatened me with just how mean and ugly it would get if I did.<p>In fairness, we do get along well. We enjoy the same things and enjoy doing stuff together. But I don't need or want just a friend, those I have. My counselor once asked me how I was prepared to live my life. That some people remain married but basically live two lives continuing to interact but that is about it. I told him I could not do that, but more and more that is exactly what I am doing. And the things that I am missing I would have to get from another person...I won't jump into that pot.<p>I guess the first thing that I need to do is communicate my feelings to him. But I am about at the point that I can't even do that because of the way he reacts...I'm at the 'what's the use' level of communication.<p>There is so much more to this story, as there always is that it would take pages and hours to relate it...mostly I am just tired of it all.

don't need any more of the story, is classic control, and he does it cause it works. Forget his threats about getting ugly, get a lawyer, and have him removed, by force if necessary...OR start meaningful participation in reconcilliation efforts. Frankly I think he will cave, and the power will shift some back to you, he will cooperate, in any event, you have nothing to lose, and it is costing you emotional injury, which equates to stress, which equates to physical consequences, even if not apparent in your health.....long term consequences. Right or wrong it is a fact of life you have to sometimes get in someones face to get action, you have tried mrs nice woman, and it has failed (apparently), that is the achilles heal of plan a behaviour, after a point it becomes plan doormate behaviour, or conflict resumes either way it has a season, and then the gloves come off, or you roll over and show your belly and just live with it.....so what is victoria gonna do?

First reach through this computer and slap you [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I certainly know when I have been issued a challenge. And you are right that there is a distinct line between plan whatever and doormat. I think that I have crossed over that line and made things too easy for him. Too easy for him to just fall right back into the old patterns of doing what he wants with no regard to anyone else.<p>He is a very selfish man, has been since I met him. Jealous, territorial, controlling, self rightous, if he gives the speach about taking responsibility for your actions one more time I am going to hurl on his shoes; yet he can tell me that he has never done anything that would hurt me in all the time we have been married...it is just me. It has always been just me, putting up with his mistreatment of me and his children and I am tired of it.<p>Yes, Victoria is going to take action. Not some great campaign, but a very simple well chosen group of words. Just like David...something small and simple will bring down this giant.

vf...<p>Two years is a long time. Before you take your definitive action....<p>...are you sure you've done everything?<p>...have you changed you? your perspective on your H? <p>Three books that I have read have basically said the same thing... act in loving, goodwill towards your spouse at all times. if they are not going to change, maybe your expectations of them have to change. we have to give up our need to be right in relationships. <p>Please check them out. Susan Page "How One of You Can Keep the Two of You Together" Harriet Lerner "Dance of Connection" and Michele Weiner-Davis "Divorce Remedy." In my opinion...they are Plan A in a box...<p>As WhoDat once told me, "You can be right, and you can be married." You probably can't be both.

I have no need to be right, but I do need to be married to this man. And what we have now is not a marriage...it is a joint arrangement to do the housework, pay the bills and raise kids with little emotional input or committment from my H.<p> I KNOW that he is depressed and has been for a long time, even before the A. He has told me that he has a problem but will take no action to find out if it is physical, emotional whatever. I do not hound him about it, but I do suggest very lovingly that maybe he should get a physical since he hasn't had one in awhile as a place to start. There is only so much I can do to nudge him in that direction.<p>What more can be done? I inquired as to his needs and as far as I can tell I am meeting them. He says that he is happy and at peace, that is my answer about how well I am doing. I have told him very clearly what mine are as well, I may as well have been talking to a brick wall. I am not a confrontational person, so any conversations have been very low key and honest as to how I feel and what I need...and I am not a high maintanence person. A kiss or hug occasionally that is not prompted by me, a conversation that does not consist of him asking me things and then looking at everything but me when I answer or worse walking out of the room. Look we have had these conversations and they have done no good...<p>Yes I have changed. I have grown and expanded my insights of myself, him and our relationship. Had I not I would have left by now. I have changed how I handle my emotions, I truly seek answers to what I am feeling and why instead of taking it out on people who are totally innocent. I am more objective and nonjudgemental, supportive, understanding, logical. I think before I act. I do live each day with nothing but my families best interest at heart and go home each day knowing that I have done nothing that I am ashamed of or need to hide from any member of my family.<p>Expectations...I have none, they have withered and died. So I am wrong for 'expecting' him to meet my needs, I am wrong for 'expecting' honest open conversation. Yes I am wrong for 'expecting' anything from this man who is so willing to take and not give me anything but shreds of his attention when ever it is convenient for him to do so.<p>I don't need a husband, he is a good one. I don't need a father for our children...he is getting better on that front, now that they are grown. I don't need another little boy to take care of, I am not his mother. I need a man who is willing and able to treat me as a woman. He has no problem treating other women as such, just me. And that started after he married me and I became his 'wife'. No effort needed any more, I was already caught. He doesn't believe that good relationships take work they just happen and keep on happening. <p>and I don't need any more book recommendations...I have read and done enough work that I could fill a library and probably write a few of my own. (SNL need an editor, that is basically what I do at my present job.)<p>God I don't need or want to be right...I just need to love this man and have him love me in return. How difficult is this to understand? I am not putting conditions on this, that it has to be the way I want it or not at all. He is NOT meeting my needs and no matter what I have done and what approach I have taken, he just does not seem to care as long as he is happy. <p>How much simpler can I explain this?

www<p>[ December 14, 2001: Message edited by: KalGrl ]</p>

Please don't let him bully you with his threats about what will happen if you do anything legal. See a lawyer w/o telling him and see what your options are. You may find out his threats are just empty ones.<p>In the meantime do something different; stop meeting his needs or whatever would be a 180 from what you are doing now. As long as you continue to do all the work in the relationship he will do none.

cali...Three books that I have read have basically said the same thing... act in loving, goodwill towards your spouse at all times. if they are not going to change, maybe your expectations of them have to change. we have to give up our need to be right in relationships. <p>snl...This is sorta the gist of why I have difficulty with this approach. There is no end to it, you just keep adjusting your expectations and burying your emotions....the part I don't get is why? Why on earth would a normal healthy human being do this? It implies that marriage itself, the little piece of paper is the altar we worship...right? If a marriage meets no needs (you want met), meets no Biblical standards as well.... the issue IMO is whether you are even married at all...isn't it? Maybe you could indulge me a bit cali, when DO you leave a marital relationship? When is it ok, and who decides...you? or your spouse? or society in general? It sounds a little bit like the individual is unimportant, they MUST keep adjusting, what if they don't want to adjust? These books you read don't seem to be balanced, they are all predicated on staying married no matter what, for a lifetime if needed, and just doing it regardless of the behaviour of your mate, is that correct? Logically this seems to mean you continue to change yourself and your expectations until you literally no longer need your spouse at all..... why would anyone do that?

Hi, VF,
I have been on MB since May '00; several discoveries later...H's A began in Dec. '99. I so relate to what you are saying because I am feeling exactly the way you are!!! My H is acting just like yours - not meeting any of my needs; sex/intimacy has never like pre-A - getting very sick and tired of it. We are counseling with Steve and he convinced me to stick it out a little longer...he is trying to get my H to 'buy in.' I, like you, just want to be loved in return.
Hugs,
S