We returned from Vegas and H went into his cave. Back to not looking at me&#8230;not talking&#8230;distant&#8230;wall up&#8230;kinda like being with Dr. Jekyll and watching him turn into Mr. Hyde.<p>I was resolved. Kept myself under control. Tried talking&#8230;he wouldn&#8217;t talk back so I quit. Two nights of him falling asleep on the couch&#8230;(his knee hurt&#8230;or was it his stomach&#8230;or maybe he couldn&#8217;t breathe&#8230;so many reasons, I can&#8217;t keep them straight sometimes&#8230;but I am not supposed be anxious&#8230;I am supposed to believe that&#8217;s why he doesn&#8217;t want to come up to bed). But&#8230;last night I let it all eat at me&#8230;Christmas&#8230;two weeks of asking for him to go to storage and get the tree and it still not done&#8230.(I only asked a once per week&#8230;not each day&#8230 ) &#8230;I thought of our playful weekend in Vegas&#8230;and I thought of how I was playful at home and hugely rebuffed that night&#8230;I thought of another holiday this year where he wouldn&#8217;t have a gift for me&#8230;birthday&#8230;anniversary&#8230;and now, Christmas&#8230;and I thought of the unopened cell bill downstairs&#8230;<p>You know when you lose it, you can almost feel the snap&#8230;there&#8217;s a time when you consciously decide&#8230;I felt it&#8230;I knew looking at the cell bill that I would find a phone call&#8230;or two&#8230;or three&#8230;bunch of numbers I don&#8217;t know&#8230;<p>Yep. Contact. Just like I KNOW HE&#8217;S HAD CONTACT since we came back. I can feel it in my bones&#8230;.what&#8217;s the song&#8230;it&#8217;s in his kiss&#8230;or not kiss&#8230;<p>So I LB&#8217;d&#8230;or did I? I was loud. I used a couple of explicatives&#8230;(kids were up&#8230;so I got myself under control). I just told him how much it hurts me. . He said he needed to talk to someone who makes him feel good. I told him I would like him to talk to me&#8230;he said he couldn&#8217;t &#8216;cause he was talking about me&#8230;I said talk to me about me&#8230;.he said I wouldn&#8217;t listen. Oh, I&#8217;ve made some changes&#8230;(but not enough and not good enough apparently).<p>I told him I was afraid. I didn&#8217;t want to stay &#8216;hooked&#8217; only to have him leave. He said that was my problem. Get unhooked. I said then he would have to leave. He said he wouldn&#8217;t leave. How was it that I could tell him what to do. He said that&#8217;s what this was all about&#8230;me telling him what to do.<p>He said what I know. I can&#8217;t force him to do this on my timeline. He doesn&#8217;t want to read any of my books (I haven&#8217;t asked him to since this summer&#8230 ) He doesn&#8217;t want to go to MB&#8230;(haven&#8217;t asked him to since this summer) I can&#8217;t force him not to call her. (I did ask for this&#8230;said it was disrespectful). I can&#8217;t force him not to call anyone else. I can&#8217;t force him to leave. (and, I won&#8217;t&#8230;I won&#8217;t become the villain&#8230 ) <p>I am trying to get it. I am trying to listen&#8230;but then, it&#8217;s really not about me&#8230;is it? I could become a Stepford wife and it probably wouldn&#8217;t make a difference.<p>So now I regroup. And I will try not to beat myself up for this&#8230;I won&#8217;t say I am sorry. I will say that I should have handled it better. I will say that when I get to the end of my rope, I should tie a stronger knot&#8230;I will say that I deserve some protection. I will also NOT pay that cell bill. He is totally responsible for it. And, I will reiterate that it is not appropriate that family money be funneled to keep up his friendship with her.<p>So, I poked at a cornered, wounded animal and it snarled at me and tried to bite&#8230;<p>[ December 18, 2001: Message edited by: TryingAgain ]</p>

CALI---<p>I don't know what it is, but it seems like just when you think you are making progress with them (WSs) they blow it all up. <p>You are still the queen of Plan A...<p>Keep on keepin' on...<p>E<p>[ December 18, 2001: Message edited by: Elad ]</p>

(((TA)))<p>Crap. I'm really sorry to hear this. And just when it seemed like things were taking a turn for the better.<p>It sounds like you allowed yourself a perfectly reasonable reaction and didn't get out of control. It must have taken amazing restraint on your part.<p>Sounds like the animal willfully made a mess on your new carpet and you rubbed his nose in it. As justified as your response was he'll probably only remember the expletives, and not what he did to provoke the reaction.<p>You seem to have a pretty good idea just where your boundaries are. I don't think you should beat yourself up. I don't think I can tell you anything that you don't already know. When something similar happened to me I felt like I was living with an alcoholic or drug addict who just couldn't help themselves. Someone here once mentioned how much Al-Anon had helped them.<p>I hope Dr. Jekyll returns soon.<p>NP

Trying,<p>I am so sorry to hear that you had a bad ending to a great weekend. I think you handled it just fine, and as others have told me here, now just breathe. You have to have boundaries, that is perfectly acceptable.<p>BTW, I took your recomendations and picked up The Four Agreement and How One of you can keep The Two of You Together. Funny thing, my H is interested in reading the Four Agreements, so I gave it to him to read first. He doesn't know about the other one, I am afraid he will find it manipulative, just from the title.<p>Again, I am so sorry and do feel your pain.<p>Keep the faith, one day at a time. You are so Strong. <p>Needing

TA,<p>Your accounts of your marriage takes me right back to my story last year.<p>We had so many attempts to put together what he tried to destroy with the OW.<p>Year 2000
April 20th-He confessed to an EA with OW. She was his soulmate. However, wanted to try with me again.<p>April 27th-Could not/did not want to stay away from OW who was a CoWorker. PI confirmed date with hugging and kissing while I was at home wondering what was going on. I thought that was the worst day of my life. He asked for a divorce.<p>April 29th-H said he wanted to try with me. Even bought new rings to recommit to each other.<p>April 30th-Not one day later, distant, unhappy, withdrawn. Proceeded to tell the kids he was moving out. The pain and anguish on my children's faces was too much for him to bear, again recommitted to the family. He even quit the job with no notice at all. I thought we could finally begin to heal if he even quit the job. Not!<p>Then 6 other attempts. On the second to last attempt I threw him out after he returned home from a three week seperation. He begged to come home. I allowed it. Then felt the distance building, the moodiness, the awful coldness. I threw him out in the middle of the night.<p>Two weeks later we reconciled. This was the final reconciliaiton. He finally realized what my boundaries were, that I would not tolerate continued contact. He finally realized that the family was where he belonged. <p>He mourned her for months. Even cried in front of me over her. However, I did not sense continued contact. <p>TA, you have to realize what your boundaries are. What you are willing to tolerate. Only you know what you can handle. I know you love him as I loved and still love my H. If you did not love him it would not hurt so much.<p>Now I can say we are in our final recovery attempt. One year later my H loves me, is very attentive, calls me during the day, does not go into his cave. It took lots of pain, anguish, second guessing, prayers and love to get back to this point.<p>God bless you and yours Cali. I can only say I do empathize with your pain as so many of us on these boards do.<p>NOMO.

TA,<p>The growling bear is really a handsome King. The beautiful Queen misses her handsome King. The King is underneath all that matted fur.....he just needs a kiss from the beautiful Queen. <p>How does this happen? If the Queen tries to get near this growling bear, she will be bit or even killed......how does the Queen help get her King back? <p>The Queen must enlist the aid of a 'bear trainer' (MB/family/friends/LB Fairie, etc.). The job is tough and grueling. The bear must be fed or sleeping to get near him (needs met). The bear must follow the rules (POJA, etc.). The bear must have an attitude adjusment. How? Firm and consistant love.....(Plan B). The bear does not want to move. The bear will not budge.....<p>What to do? The bear will be moved because no one can live in that Castle as long as the bear is allowed to roam free as a bear. The Queen must decide. If the bear will not leave willingly, the bear must be removed. <p>The Queen wants to make sure the bear is ok when he is in his environment. The bear's natural environment is cold, wet and dark. But this is not a natural bear, this is her King. The bear does not want to be wet, cold and in the dark. The bear must decide......<p>.....more to come?!?!?
L.

Hey TA,<p>Aren't ya gonna critique my story? Hm....<p>
L.

I loved your story....<p>I am just very hurt...very sad...and am allowing myself to wallow.

Orchid,
I loved your story too. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>TA,
You can waller (that's what we say down here in the south.. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ) a lil bit. We'll let ya. Just don't lose touch with that strong TA woman we know so well [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] . She will pull through this. And don't lose sight of the One true friend and completer that is always there for you.... lean on Him. Reach up to Him, even if you can't lift your hand. <p>So, waller in the mud a lil bit... Besides, even Queens deserve a little mud wrap every now and then to nourish the skin!! then reach up when you can. We're to pull you up. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ December 18, 2001: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

Wish I had something great to say to you too...but just wanted you to know that you are in my prayers. <p>I was hoping you were getting off the roller coaster ride---it is definitely time for you to be able to get off. <p>You are a strong and sensible lady and I want to thank you for all your support these last few months. I wish you and your family the best holidays ever---you deserve it!!

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{TA}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<p>I just want to remind you that this might just be "withdrawal" and addiction behavior.<p>Addicts DON'T give up their addictions "cold turkey" Yeah, some do, but most don't....they suffer through it. For a long time.<p>IF you know there has been NO physical contact, just these phone calls, etc. It's possible he is drawing away from her gradually...in order to "ease the pain." <Yucky, I know><p>Remember your week-end together. You had a *wonderful* time. That alone is probably causing major conflict in his head. I can *almost* understand him calling her! He's conflicted, he's confused. He LOVED you, he loved being with you alone, he loved your time together.....BUT.....he's supposed to have "undying love" for HER.....hmmmmm. He had to call her to "discuss this" or confirm it.<p>See, if HE's here with you and SHE knows about it, and is waiting patiently, then SHE'S "playing games" with his head. Telling him she "understands" that he has to "TRY" to make it for his kids....whatever.<p>TA, DO NOT LB to the point that he's "justified" in leaving you for HER. Then they'll have all the justification to do what they (SHE) are planning to do. Make your home SAFE. You know these things. I know you do. I don't mean to "lecture." I'm just reminding you of things you are losing sight of. <p>You need to pull away a little bit.....show some independence, as THOUGH he is gone. This is what he's trying to tell you he wants, right? Is there any way you can go get the tree without him? <p>Stay strong. You've been through this for a long time, it's been a tough struggle. DON"T GIVE UP FIVE MINUTES BEFORE THE MIRACLE. This IS the season for miracles.....you've prayed for one before. It's time to ask again.<p>Love & Prayers,
Lupo