I have noted on several recent and old posts the issue of control...<p>A central theme in affairs...a reason...a justification is that we BSs have 'been in control' of the marriage all this time...and now it's the WSs turn...<p>Now, I'd like the recovered WSs opinions on that issue...how did you look at control before and during your affair, and how do you see it now in your marriage? If you have a changed perspective...how did it change? Gradually? Epiphany? <p>...thanks...I don't really want control...but, on the other hand, I seem to have problems leaving 'issues' alone and 'allowing' H to work things out on his own...so I do recognize that in myself...just don't know how to 'fix' it...

Hi Trying ~<p>Ok, so I'm not a WS. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>But let me share you something I learned by working my 12-step program in Al-Anon. Letting go of control means also letting go of your obsession with "fixing" (ie controlling) situations and other people. It also means however, that you let go of your OWN character defects!<p>I know I talk alot about BS's learning to accept the reality that their spouses are who they are and not who they want them to be.<p>Well the same goes for ourselves. We are who we are, and not who we want to be [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>It means accepting ourselves (true self love) and recognizing that we are just as human and imperfect as everyone else around us. It means letting go of our own double standard btwn our expectations of ourselves and others (which only serves to make us feel self-righteous).<p>I learned how to do this by doing steps 4 through 7. In the 4th step I had to make a written moral inventory. That meant I had to write out my virtues, along with my vices. It was simply a realistic self assessment. In the 5th step I had to garner up the humility to admit to God, and another human being the exact nature of my wrongs. Acknowledging that I *was* imperfect instead of the perfect creature I struggled to be was a very freeing thing. Then in 6, I had to work on becoming willing to "allow" God to fix me [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] And in 7, I actually had to ask God to fix me.<p>And by the time I managed all that - I had let go of trying to "fix" my issues. And slowly, not on my time table, but on God's, many of my imperfections seem to be headed out the door. (But the joke is, I seem to be changing old imperfections for new ones!).<p>Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that you have to learn to love and accept you! And your fears seem to be a major obstacle in taking that step. <p>For me, writing about my fear - ALL of it, not just regarding my H's A - was very enlightening, especially when I was able to share it with someone else, and see those fears in the light of day. Daylight makes those big bad ugly fears look pretty darn pathetic and wimpy.<p>Hope this helps.

TryingAgain: A central theme in affairs...a reason...a justification is that we BSs have 'been in control' of the marriage all this time...and now it's the WSs turn...<p>TR- I don't think "control" is reason or justification for an affair..yes, our spouses may
be controlling, but, that isn't the reason for the A, it's more about being treated w/ respect as a seperate person--and not a piece of property or a child..but as an Adult..<p> "I can do whatever I want to do and you can't stop me, I AM AN ADULT, and can make my own choices, good, bad or indifferent" (yes, very much like a rebellious teenager trying to gain some independence from their parents to show they are adults, so STOP treating me like a child, and stop telling me how to feel, what to do, and how to do it, I have a brain God gave me, let me use it, I have feelings God gave me let me feel them)
I don't care if you agree or not, you don't have to like it..just accept that I feel or think this way..stop trying to make me into YOU..I don't ALWAYS have to agree with you, just as YOU don't ALWAYS agree with me..so RESPECT THAT or
I will leave!!<p>TRYINGAGAIN-Now, I'd like the recovered WSs opinions on that issue...how did you look at control before and during your affair, and how do you see it now in your marriage? <p>TR- Well, my M is over, so my perspective hasn't changed as far as He still tries to control..only now he's trying to control using the kids..he still does not treat me with respect..and doesn't think I should 'feel' the way I do..but should 'feel' and think what he does..and just accept what he says as law..and never disagree..<p>TRYINGAGAIN- If you have a changed perspective...how did it change? Gradually? Epiphany? <p>TR- I've changed in that I set boundries..and no longer listen to his rages or his name calling..
and it has taken me 3 years to get to this point..<p>TRYINGAGAIN-thanks...I don't really want control...but, on the other hand, I seem to have problems leaving 'issues' alone and 'allowing' H to work things out on his own...so I do recognize that in myself...just don't know how to 'fix' it...<p>TR- One thing you should learn is that 'control' is about boundries..learning that You have 'no control' over the other person..you only have control over yourself..learning what you are responsible for..and what you aren't responsible for..and you can work on that in yourself..<p>There is a wonderful book that I'm sure you have seen many posters recommend on this topic it's Boundries in Marriage, or even the book Boundries..if you read one of those you will begin to learn how to work on this area in yourself..<p>the thing that I have learned..is that these boundries, not only effect a marriage..but ALL relationships..in that you try to 'fix' everyone's problems for them..and don't allow them to suffer their 'own' consequences of their actions or lack of actions..be it that you know what it's like to hurt, and you don't want them to hurt like you did..or whatever..so you try to stop them from feeling their own feelings..so you take on their feelings for them..by trying to 'fix things' for them..<p>Hope this helps...

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ThornedRose:
<strong>TryingAgain: A central theme in affairs...a reason...a justification is that we BSs have 'been in control' of the marriage all this time...and now it's the WSs turn...<p>TR- I don't think "control" is reason or justification for an affair..yes, our spouses may
be controlling, but, that isn't the reason for the A, it's more about being treated w/ respect as a seperate person--and not a piece of property or a child..but as an Adult..(and you actually lose more respect b/c of the Affair, but it wakes the other person up to the fact that there are major problems..even if it is the WRONG way to go about it)<p>"I can do whatever I want to do and you can't stop me, I AM AN ADULT, and can make my own choices, good, bad or indifferent" (yes, very much like a rebellious teenager trying to gain some independence from their parents to show they are adults, so STOP treating me like a child, and stop telling me how to feel, what to do, and how to do it, I have a brain God gave me, let me use it, I have feelings God gave me let me feel them)I don't care if you agree or not, you don't have to like it..just accept that I feel or think this way, stop trying to make me into YOU..I don't ALWAYS have to agree with you, just as YOU don't have to ALWAYS agree with me..and that's okay..we can have differing opinions and be alright..<p>TRYINGAGAIN- Now, I'd like the recovered WSs opinions on that issue...how did you look at control before and during your affair, and how do you see it now in your marriage? <p>TR- Well, my M is over, so my perspective hasn't changed as far as He still tries to control..only now he's trying to control using the kids..he still does not treat me with respect..and doesn't think I should 'feel' the way I do..but should 'feel' and think what he does..and just accept what he says as law..and never disagree..yet, he has no desire to accept MY feelings or thoughts as mine..as far as he's concerned..Mine are WRONG!! Always have been always will be..(I feel his are based on thinking women should do whatever they are told, I'm the man of the family, and I make the decisions and don't question that, and that goes against what I believe marriage should be..I think it should be two ppl working together)<p>TRYINGAGAIN- If you have a changed perspective...how did it change? Gradually? Epiphany? <p>TR- I've changed in that I set boundries..and no longer listen to his rages or his name calling..
and it has taken me 3 years to get to this point..<p>TRYINGAGAIN- thanks...I don't really want control...but, on the other hand, I seem to have problems leaving 'issues' alone and 'allowing' H to work things out on his own...so I do recognize that in myself...just don't know how to 'fix' it...<p>TR- One thing you should learn is that 'control' is about boundries..learning that You have 'no control' over the other person..you only have control over yourself..learning what you are responsible for..and what you aren't responsible for..and you can work on that in yourself..<p>There is a wonderful book that I'm sure you have seen many posters recommend on this topic it's Boundries in Marriage, or even the book Boundries..if you read one of those you will begin to learn how to work on this area in yourself..<p>the thing that I have learned..is that these boundries, not only effect a marriage..but ALL relationships..in that you try to 'fix' everyone's problems for them..and don't allow them to suffer their 'own' consequences of their actions or lack of actions..be it that you know what it's like to hurt, and you don't want them to hurt like you did..or whatever..so you try to stop them from feeling their own feelings..so you take on their feelings for them..by trying to 'fix things' for them..<p>Hope this helps...</strong><hr></blockquote>

It's a mistake to look at a reason why something happened and a justification as the same thing, because they are in fact totally different.<p>That being said...<p>...it wasn't about control in my situation (I'm the WS). It was about the fact that I spent years supporting my SO's "fairy-tale" image of a relationship. He was so blissfully happy, so content to just "be", that he didn't spend too much of his time considering how I might be feeling...he just "assumed" that I was feeling the same way he did. If I wasn't, I would have told him, right? Ha...and knock down his little straw house? <p>The truth is, there's no such thing as a relationship where you can just "be" happy without having to work at it. To think that it can be that way is both naive and unfair to your partner (because rest assured, if you're happy and you're together, SOMEONE is doing the work to make it so...is it you?). I would imagine that most WS either know this from the get-go (as I did), or lose that feeling over time...so they're left with a SO that's off in Cinderella la-la-land, while the soon-to-be WS is unhappy and perceiving themselves as doing all the "work". <p>I would imagine that there are many different "reasons" why affairs happen...that just happens to be PART of what led to mine...but that's not ANY justification for it. I can see now that I should have told him what I was feeling, regardless of whether it ruined his "perfect" image of our relationship or not. That's not what I did, though...and unfortunately, I can't wave a magic wand and make all the bad things disappear. We can only move on, both realizing what we didn't do that we should have.<p>[ December 19, 2001: Message edited by: TowardsTheFuture ]</p>

TA - this is a very sensitive subject for me - and maybe this is not the respose you hoped for.<p>First, I'm a BS.<p>In hindsight, as supported by observers of my family before my wife's affair, she was the controller in our marriage. Friends and family - including her's - tell me they're amazed that I put up with her controlling ways for so long. I had no choice - or so I thought at the time - because we were caring for our young son in his long, unsuccessful battle with cancer. I consciously chose NOT to try to solve two HUGE problems at once - his disease and our dysfunctional marriage - which were not mutually exclusive.<p>Now to my point: Today, my wife accuses ME of controlling and manipulating HER - and I always did. This twists my mind around so badly that I begin to self-doubt, until I remember the tendency for WSs to employ revisionist history. Not once in our 20 years together before our separation did she mention this. I first heard this accusation from OM back in June or so of this year - right before I went to Plan B. I first heard it from her after Plan B. I now believe what she feels as controlling is loss of control over me.<p>So, I don't buy that the BS was controlling in each case and the WS is merely escaping by initiating an affair. Even if the BS was controlling, there are lots of humane ways to resolve this.

My H was never a "controller". That by far was me in our relationship. I was the one who made decisions, took responsibility. He was along for the ride (and he liked it that way)<p>The only similar issue we've had is the "fixing".
He wants everything to be fixed NOW. So he was making a lot of demands that I was not willing to comply with. Which of course caused an enormous amount of friction. I think counselling with Steve set him on a different path.<p>He has now relaxed. He's calm, He's nice, He's giving. He's not pressuring me. And I can feel myself responding to that. I still have a lot of doubts on whether we will make it. But I must say right now my relationship with OM is negative while my relationship with H is all positive.

Well...the controller in me is saying this is NOT going the way I thought it would [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>thanks BrambleRose...I think I'm gonna leave the book thing alone for awhile...there is a 12step plan in the Carder book...I'll check it out and see how similar it is...<p>I seem to have a 'crisis' everytime I get a new book...hmmmm, eh?<p>
ThornedRose...ditto w/ the boundaries books...I have to give myself some 'book' space...<p>Thank you for your comments.<p>
TowardsTheFuture...yeah...there's a lot of reasons for affairs...my WH's specifically focuses on the control issue and having his own voice.<p>WAT...I too see it as a double-edged sword...there's a lot of 'control' in passive-aggressive behavior, as well as in conflict-avoidance...<p>It all boils down to that your issues are your issues and sometimes you have to put yourself in the other person's shoes and see/feel why they thinkt the way they do...they aren't 'wrong,' we aren't 'wrong' necessarily...our perspectives just differ...

Lexxxy...<p>didn't forget you...<p>but I have to say WOW! Sounds like your H has made some strides...<p>I wish you well over the holidays.<p>(C A L I)

^bump^