Little worried about ya man. Maybe I missed your latest somewhere. How about an update?<p> jd

Hey, thanks for the call-out. It's nice to be missed.<p>W and I are in Kansas at her parents' house for Christmas. It was a nice day, and she liked the pearl/diamond pendant that I got her. I gave it to her Christmas-Eve so that her mom didn't make a big production out of it. I told her that I know I wasn't supposed to get her anything extravagant, but that was something that I'd been meaning to do for a long time (it matches her earrings). Her tearful reply, "why didn't you do it sooner?"<p>It brought on a discussion of the state of the union. She's said for a week or so that she can't go on like this for very long and has to come to a decision of some sort. I only hope it's the one I desperately desire. I'm hoping for a Christmas miracle of sorts, but I don't expect anything Earth shaking really soon.<p>She said that she thinks she knows what she needs to do to be happy, but either she's not entirely sure, or she is afraid to make the statement, or something like that. I was too terrified to remember exactly what she said. I wanted so badly to ask what that was, but I'm afraid of the answer. I guess she'll tell me in her own time.<p>Today, she has the flu, and so she's been in bed most of the day. She definitely didn't need that on top of everything else going on.<p>I'm having a rough day emotionally. We just watched Oprah (first time I've watched it in YEARS), and it was about "why we came to America." A collection of stories from refugees, and the hardships they suffered before finally making it to the "Land of Opportunity." I pretty much cried through the whole thing. Everything we have, everything we take for granted, everything that other people around the world want and work so hard to attain....sounds an awefully lot like my marriage over the last several years.<p>We had planned to review our ENQ on the trip down, but she read me excerpts from the "Tao of Pooh" (it might have been Zen instead of Tao, but the book is about Taoism). It's a pretty good book, much of it amazingly enough relates directly with the concepts of Plan A (W pointed that out). I REALLY believe in these concepts, whether you call them Plan A, Tao, whatever....I've seen strikingly similar direction from many independant books lately and they all make sense.<p>Maybe we'll cover the ENQ on the way home tomorrow, we'll see.<p>During our "talk" on Christmas Eve, W said something about she'd hold resentment towards me if she had to give up the potential of the relationship with OM, because it is through my actions (or inactions) that she was put in the situation to make the choices she has. I understand her feelings, and I'm afraid that THAT might be something she might not be able to get over...or at least it'd take a lot of time...on top of the lot of time to get over everything else. <p>I need to make a note of that and ask Steve about it next month when I talk to him. Any input from you all would be more than welcome.<p>She mentioned that she's still extremely resistant to a no-contact letter. Partly because of the "contract" that I made them both sign (and a copy to his mother) shortly after I discovered they were still talking after DD. I understand that the guidelines of MB are just that- GUIDELINES, but I don't know how I feel about not having the letter just yet. On one hand, I want DESPERATELY for her to come home, and to trust her (and I think >>>I<<< can trust her, to a point). But on the other hand, the letter represents her willingness to do anything necessary to rebuild our relationship, and it's a sign to me of that committment & how can I just allow my needs to be walked upon one more time? I don't know exactly what to do; another topic for Steve probably.<p>I hope she's having a better Christmas than she did a Thanksgiving, but I'm not sure (especially with her being sick). I'm trying (and I told her so) to not be an emotional wreck and be all needy and weepy around her. I understand that that's not attractive, but that's exactly what I am- a wreck. I told her that I am, but that I wouldn't always be. She seems to understand.<p>My deepest hope is that God can comfort us all; Jill, all of you here at MB, and me in this time of need. Please, everyone try to take account of the gifts that you've been given on this Earth, and take comfort in that.<p>Love and light,
Kev

Kev,
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by kevco-:
<strong> During our "talk" on Christmas Eve, W said something about she'd hold resentment towards me if she had to give up the potential of the relationship with OM, because it is through my actions (or inactions) that she was put in the situation to make the choices she has. I understand her feelings, and I'm afraid that THAT might be something she might not be able to get over...or at least it'd take a lot of time...on top of the lot of time to get over everything else. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Yes it will take time, but surprisingly it may not take as long as either you or Jill think. For me, I kept myself resenting Bill for "where he put me" because that was enabling me to "justify" what I was doing. It took me a while to realize this...
Bill's actions caused me to be unhappy. I couldn't figure out how to fix it. I tried and tried to no avail. So I went elsewhere. I went elsewhere. I got tired of working at it so I quit. It was SO EASY to put all the blame on Bill's shoulders. But just who was the J*CKA** that quit?!? ME!! But I was so much more comfortable in the victims spot. It was by far the wide road. <p>But lo! As I was coming out of the fog (Sorry, just a quick way to get you to know where I'm talking about), I saw the pain and DESTRUCTION I was causing. To everyone, myself included. Once I decided to travel the narrow road, I realized it's not so scary after all. It is well lit, nicely paved, and in some spots even has guardrails. There is no speen limit on my road, and no matter how slow I go, my destination always comes closer.<p>Wow, I feel like that went on a MAJOR tangent! OOPS! [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img] <p>To sum up, it might not take as long as you two both think as soon as she realzes that her heart IS with her. Gosh, as always I hope this was clear... . Did you get our reply? I hope it wasn't too late!
Take care,
Weez

Well I know why you didn't do it sooner(the pendant). No excuse I know. Why couldn't we have heard their cries sooner? Too comfortable being who we were maybe? <p> Anyway, I have been watching your situation closely even though I didn't post much to you. You give me hope. Believe it or not the hope I have in you is of being able to be as good a man as you seem to have become. You realize what you want to be and nothing is deterring you from that. <p> You are able to keep your cool in the most difficult situations. Your W must really love that quality in you. <p> I am sorry she is ill over the holidays. Kev, she is a smart lady. Be patient and let love grow. Her situation may need to come complete circle before she realizes the kind of love you have for her will never be found in a 19 year old. Not unless he is a very special person. Which he may be, but if he were that special he would not be involved with a married woman. <p> Keep up the good fight man. You can do this to completion. Show that wife of yours the man you wanted to be but never were. <p> jd

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by kevco-:
<strong>
W and I are in Kansas at her parents' house for Christmas. It was a nice day, and she liked the pearl/diamond pendant that I got her. I gave it to her Christmas-Eve so that her mom didn't make a big production out of it. I told her that I know I wasn't supposed to get her anything extravagant, but that was something that I'd been meaning to do for a long time (it matches her earrings). Her tearful reply, "why didn't you do it sooner?"
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Well, you can only fix the now, not the past but I see why she was so upset and wished it would have happened sooner. Kev you did good man! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] I'm proud of you! So many men are not romantics they have to learn this trait, you are learning it, some day she or some one else is really going to be lucky. Too often men just don't have it in them to even try to be romantics or possibly just don't care enough...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by kevco-:
<strong>
It brought on a discussion of the state of the union. She's said for a week or so that she can't go on like this for very long and has to come to a decision of some sort. I only hope it's the one I desperately desire. I'm hoping for a Christmas miracle of sorts, but I don't expect anything Earth shaking really soon.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Just remember, sometimes what you desire may not be what you need...God only knows this...
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by kevco-:
<strong>
She said that she thinks she knows what she needs to do to be happy, but either she's not entirely sure, or she is afraid to make the statement, or something like that. I was too terrified to remember exactly what she said. I wanted so badly to ask what that was, but I'm afraid of the answer. I guess she'll tell me in her own time.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Can you tell me a little about this OM? Do you know very much about him? What things does your wife like about him? Is he a romantic? How did she meet this guy? What are some of their diffences they may have?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by kevco-:
<strong>
Today, she has the flu, and so she's been in bed most of the day. She definitely didn't need that on top of everything else going on.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I am coming down with the flu too. I got it from my son. Tell her to be careful, I hear this one turns into pneumnia easily. It's a bad one, I had to take my son to ER yesterday...
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by kevco-:
<strong>
I'm having a rough day emotionally. We just watched Oprah (first time I've watched it in YEARS), and it was about "why we came to America." A collection of stories from refugees, and the hardships they suffered before finally making it to the "Land of Opportunity." I pretty much cried through the whole thing. Everything we have, everything we take for granted, everything that other people around the world want and work so hard to attain....sounds an awefully lot like my marriage over the last several years.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's a good thing Kev, she does need to make a decision, either to share the life with you now, or let you move on. You are in limbo waiting for an answer...Although, she needs time to make sure she is confident in her choice. Again, just hope she doesn't go to long and you end up losing respect for her along the way...I've seen it happen.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by kevco-:
<strong>
During our "talk" on Christmas Eve, W said something about she'd hold resentment towards me if she had to give up the potential of the relationship with OM, because it is through my actions (or inactions) that she was put in the situation to make the choices she has. I understand her feelings, and I'm afraid that THAT might be something she might not be able to get over...or at least it'd take a lot of time...on top of the lot of time to get over everything else.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>hmmmmm? Okay, I disagree with your wife here, although I do sympathize. She made this mess, not you. You had inactions, okay, here's a choice that could have solved the problem without her bringing in a third party and making it worse. She could have been stronger and resisted temptation, she could have told you there was a problem and left you. She could have gave you space and time to see the mistakes you are making in the marriage. It was her choice to stay in this marriage, you didn't hold her prisoner. It was her choice to get involved with another man instead of leaving first, it was her choice to bring another man into this and thereby confusing things worse...<p>Now she's going to have to give up one of her loves, you or him. What she said about the fact she will resent you if she had to give up the potential of the relationship with the other male, just really concerns me too. She has a choice, you do not control her to give this male up or not, however, just because you made mistakes, does not mean you have to accept her wanting you and him...She has to know when the decision is made, whether it be with this guy or with you, it was her choice, she made the choice, no one else. She needs to know she is in control of her life...<p>Blame is an easy thing to do, for her to blame you for her choice is no less than just wrong...
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by kevco-:
<strong>
She mentioned that she's still extremely resistant to a no-contact letter. Partly because of the "contract" that I made them both sign (and a copy to his mother) shortly after I discovered they were still talking after DD. I understand that the guidelines of MB are just that- GUIDELINES, but I don't know how I feel about not having the letter just yet. On one hand, I want DESPERATELY for her to come home, and to trust her (and I think >>>I<<< can trust her, to a point). But on the other hand, the letter represents her willingness to do anything necessary to rebuild our relationship, and it's a sign to me of that committment & how can I just allow my needs to be walked upon one more time? I don't know exactly what to do; another topic for Steve probably.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I'm confused on this one???? A letter you made both of them sign? You mean other male and your wife? AND this one even more confuses me...What do you mean you gave a copy to his mother? Do the other males mother??? Kev, I some how pictured you and your wife as being older, How old are you??? Sorry if I pictured this wrong...
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by kevco-:
<strong>
My deepest hope is that God can comfort us all; Jill, all of you here at MB, and me in this time of need. Please, everyone try to take account of the gifts that you've been given on this Earth, and take comfort in that.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Is that her real name? Does she mind you posting her real name? I've done this on accident before. You may want to make sure she doesn't mind if it is her real name...<p>Take care, good luck and keep us informed...<p>ANNA<p>[ December 27, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>

Mrs Wld- Thank you for the guidance....I hope your words ring true. I guess in the past, I've told W that she doesn't have to WANT to love me, she just has to LET me meet her EN and the love MAY follow. I guess the rest might just follow suit; the lessening of resentment, the forgiveness, the falling out of love with OM, all of it. I guess I still believe that, it's just difficult to remember sometimes, thanks.<p>And yes, your response has been timely, and hopefully unneeded.<p>JD- the only response I could give her was that I had lost myself. It's true, I don't have any clue where the man that I am today was for so long. I know that the death of my dad affected me profoundly, I just shriveled up and died inside. What I SHOULD have done was to ask W for the help and push that she's since given me. I don't understand why I couldn't do that, that's going to be the topic of my next IC session (though he's a psychoanalyst and that generally means we'll start back when I was like 6 years old).<p>Thank you for your kind words. USUALLY I'm able to keep my cool....that definitely wasn't the case for the first several weeks post-DD. But I'm doing better now, and hopefully for good. I now know and understand (again) what type of man, husband, and father (to be - hopefully) I want to be.<p>Anna- I feel that you deserve answers to some of your questions, though I'm a little hesitant to get back into some of these issues.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Can you tell me a little about this OM? Do you know very much about him? What things does your wife like about him? Is he a romantic? How did she meet this guy? What are some of their diffences they may have? <hr></blockquote><p>Yes, I know quite a lot about him. I've helped him off and on with homework in his electrician apprenticeship (and I believe other times). W and I are 30 years old (ok, ok, I'm 31- but JUST) and OM is somewhat younger. The things that I think that W finds attractive in OM are in part: He's intelligent & fun to be around. He has that cocky "I don't care" attitude of youth, and has many of the same interests in music etc, that W has. He thinks much the same way that W does (as well as how I do). He's been a friend (and confidant) to her for around six years (she met him at school - she's a teacher). She likes his family (she's been friendly with his mother for some time). She likes the attention and admiration that he gives her. Now, these are ALL pretty much things that I HAVE given her in the past, but I certainly haven't done ANY of them for quite some time (AT LEAST A YEAR).<p>I don't picture him as much of a romantic in the true sense of the word. I'm sure he says and does some sweet things, and he's gotten her at least one gift. But I just couldn't see him doing some of the things that I did when I was courting her (making her cookies when she was sick, making a cheese and sparkling wine basket for Valentine's day, buying her expensive jewelry without any reason, going for midnight walks -or shopping, going out to watch a once in a lifetime meteor storm -even though it was cloudy, etc...) Maybe I'm way off there, but if he is, he certainly didn't learn it at home, whereas I did.<p>As far as their differences, I haven't given that much thought but a couple do come to mind pretty quickly. Even though they share some of the same interestes, he IS somewhat younger than she is and doesn't share many of the same life experiences. She's educated to a post-graduate level, he's not. She CANNOT live in a messy environment, while he's the proverbial young, bachelor "slob." He hasn't made the same mistakes that I have nor learned the same lessons that I have, which may endanger him to make some of the same mistakes that I've made. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to run him down or anything.... I've actually liked him and enjoyed his company, and liked that W liked to spend time with him until now.<p>About the "contract" thing....it was sort of a no-contact letter that I demanded she (and he) sign shortly after I found continued contact post DD. I wanted his mother to have a copy because I knew they have a pretty respectful relationship, and I was hoping that would encourage him to live up to the no-contact. I believe it was the right thing, I just approached it too soon, and in a completely inappropriate manner. Instead of it being a gesture of good faith from her to me, it turned out to be me essentially balckmailing her. That's not at all what I wanted, and it significantly strained our already tenuous relationship.<p>About the name thing, I'll check with her. You're right. I asked her if she minded me posting our story after she read a couple of posts, and she said no, but I never mentioned the use of her name. I don't want to disrespect her.<p>Thank you all. Here's to a better 2002 for all!<p>Kev<p>[ December 27, 2001: Message edited by: kevco- ]</p>

Kevin,<p>What does this boy's [OB] mother say about him having an affair with a married woman? I would have to say that there would be hell to pay if I ever caught my 19 yr old boy acting in such a despicable, ungentlemanlike manner. I would probably be cutting off money and college funds over something like this.

Kev,<p>I've been meaning to respond to the answers you gave me but I got the flu and am just starting to come back to life.<p>I'll try to respond later.<p>Thanks for answering my questions.<p>ANNA