I am very confused right now (as well as a 1st time user to MB). I have been the 3rd party in an affair for the past 6 months and right now, I am not sure which way to go.<p>here is background:<p>I met her over the phone and she casually said she was in an unhappy marraige. after talking on the phone a few times, she come over to my house about 1 month later and we talked and kissed - nothing else<p>over the next 5 months, she would visit me in the early am after her husband went to work and we'd spend time together (usually had sex) and then each of us would go to work. she would visit me a few times a week and sometimes she would visit me after work at night. weekends were out because her husband was home and they did stuff.<p>this was during the summer so we had some very nice times going to the shore, lounging by the pool, etc - plus we talked about how we would be together someday and how we were "falling in love" with one another.<p>one night when she and her husband were at counseling, she called me and said that he had gotten mad and violent and she had called the cops and just packed her dog and her belongings in her car - of course I said to move in with me.<p>for the next 3 weeks we pretended that we were married and tried to forget about her husband and the hopefully upcoming separation and divorce she was planning. the conversations always revolved around how she was going to leave him and how we would live together "happily ever after"<p>but during that time she and I saw each other at our best and at our worst (like marraige) - and I guess it got too much because I told her to go move in with her brother. that night she packed her stuff and her dog and moved back in with her husband - she later said that he said "if you do that again, you're not coming back"<p>the next day I said I still wanted to talk and "be friends" - and 2 nights later we were back in each others arms having sex<p>this "dating" went on like before until she didn't call or come over for a week and said "she was too tired and had a cold". I suspected she was trying to break it off so we agreed to meet in a parking lot where she admitted she wanted to leave him but was scared what would happen to her financially. <p>she thought the best thing to do would be to get her own apt and have some time alone to decide what to do - not live with him and not live with me<p>I'm not sure what happened, but we couldn't break it off and we proceeded with our original plan to spend that next fri (she has off on fridays) to get the Christmas tree and decorate my house, etc.<p>well Friday was great - but I got worried that we couldn't be together on Christmas or New Years - so I pressured her to have our "Christmas" that coming Sunday. well - that Sunday afternoon I get a call from her saying that her husband was on a rampage and it wouldn't be a good idea to meet at my house so we agreed to meet in a parking lot.<p>it was a good thing because her husband showed up at my house and threatened me. it didn't matter because her & I still met and wound up at a hotel where we had sex again (this seems to be our common bond)<p>I didn't hear from her till Christmas nite when she called and said she couldn't meet because of her nephew getting hurt and she just got back from the hospital. I just thought this was another excuse for her not to deal with her husband's harranging so I said I would meet her in our rendezvous parking lot in 30 minutes......that 30 minutes came and went and I haven't heard from her since.<p>I know this was long-winded and appreciate you reading the whole thing. the questions I have are these:<p>- should I pursue her and find out what her intentions are ?<p>- should I just forget about our "pillow talk" and chalk it up to the affair for what it was??<p>I am extremely depressed and New Year's is coming up and we had planned to be together because we both tell each other we love one another<p>the other little thing that happened during our time together was that she put up decorations in my house and I have Christmas presents for her....<p>- should I take down the decorations, pictures, etc so I am not reminded of her ??<p>please help me understand what my role was and how the 3rd party picks up the pieces and continues on with life. do you say that you were just dating and justify the "breakup" that way<p>please help.....thank you<p>her: 38, married for 18 years, unhappy for 5, no kids<p>me: 39, single, no kids, never married

HI, This is a site called Marriage Builders... I am going to try to understand your point of view but do not have much patience for the 3rd party... you are willingly helping break up this womans marriage. Marriage is a sacred thing, not to be intruded in or shared with 3rd parties... this is why her H is so upset... she is not taking appropriate actions for a married woman, as you know. She has more problmes than you know,, and how could you ever trust her anyway... she cheats on her H.<p>RUN FOR THE HILLS. Break it off, it is wrong. There are plenty of women out there without husbands that you can have romantic relationships with, stay away from the married ones.<p>You are not even giving her a chance to fix her marriage. THis is not appropriate behavior by either of you... for you there are less consequences, but if you are God fearing, and even if you are not, you should be.. this behavior is just plain wrong.<p>Return your gifts and take down the decorations, or give the gifts to another firend or even relative if appropritae... do not give her gifts or further give her reaoson and opportunity to destroy her marriage.<p>I am sorry I do not condone affairs, my H has been in one,and thinks of every possible reason to justify his wrongdoing to me and the world. <p>I am sick over this behavior.<p>Anyway, I am trying to be clear yet caring. You need counseling, so go if you can. YOu should not be putting yourself in this hurtful situation, it is never right to knowingly hurt people. YOu are even hurting this woman you claim to care for by making her more confused... the two of you are not dealing with real life... sex, sex and more sex.. that is not a real relationship... and that is why it is fantasy and not based in reality.<p>I hope this helps, and I pray for your own good, you will end this affair, it is hurtful to all 3 involved. <p>HOPE AND LOVE< HONEY

Dear 3rd party,<p>You need to deceide whether or not You are happy being the 3rd party or not. Always waiting for her and her life so she can be with you. Never any comittment or stability. Think about it.<p>If you are happy with this, then good for you.<p>I think that she is selfish, and likes "having her cake and eating it too". If you and her do end up together, will you ever be able to trust that she will not make somone else the 3rd party.<p>good luck,

I can pretty much guarantee you that no one here is going to tell you to go for it. We tend to concentrate on helpful hints for repairing marriages, not breaking them up. Break off contact and tell her to give you a call when she has finalized divorce papers in her hand. In the meantime, there are tons of SINGLE women in your age range out there looking for men.

Hi CTP,<p>To start out, you were not "Dating", you were having an illicit affair. And this woman was committing adultery and her H was probably in the most horrific pain of his life. SERIOUSLY painful.<p>Okay, with that said, I would offer that you cease all contact with this woman. She is married and you and she are only causing yourselves and her family enormous pain.<p>You have already proved to yourselves that this is not a lasting thing between you two, so why torture yourself more? <p>My advice would be get into counseling and find out what would cause you to involve yourself with a married woman as opposed to single available females.<p>I know you must be in pain, and I'm sorry if I sound harsh, I pray you'll do the right thing and end it FOR GOOD. <p>I would hate to think one day when you're, what you consider happliy married, and think alls right with your world, only to painfully discover your W is having an affair. Karma can be a funny thing.<p>God Bless,
Jo<p>[ December 27, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

C3P-
You came hear looking for advice and maybe a little support. Unfortunately your going to feel like one of those Christians being thrown to the lions. But pleaase look past the words and feel the pain and suffering that us BS's are going through because of the actions of our WS's. But in a way, you too are a type of BS because of what your OP is doing and I can tell you are feeling some of the pain as well.<p>Take a look at some of the things that you posted:
-you have to meet her in a parking lot to see her
-she has to lie and decieve in order to see you
-when you two moved in together, you asked her to leave because you saw her bad sides
-sex is your 'common thread'
-there is a lot of "she said that he said this and that" in your post
-you admit that she is lying to you
-she expresses her love, but her actions say something else
-she talks about seperation and divorce, see any solid proof?
-unhappy in M for 5 years, wonder if she has done this kind of thing before?<p>I'm sure that by now you have been involved in several realtionships and can tell the difference between a healthy relationship and an unhealthy one. Do you think that this is a healthy one? Say that the two of you do get together, do you think that this is a good way to start a permanent long term relationship? Only you know what is best, my advice is to break it off now before you get hurt any more than you already are. <p>Please think about what you are doing and keep us posted about what you do. I pray that you do the right thing.

I realize that this is a marraige builders forum and I am sorry if I seem out of place with my post.<p>but your care and understanding what I am feeling is comforting. I have also gone thru a lot of explanations about what this "loving feeling" really is from Dr. Harley and why the OW and me are so caught up in it. his explanations about how and why an affair begins (and how it should end) have been very enlightening.<p>I just got an email from the OW and you'll get a kick out of the next set of excuses (I think they are that now): "sorry I didn't call you back (Christmas nite), I dropped the phone and it broke and I just now sent it out for repairs" (did she ever hear of a pay phone [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>it gets better "I have surprise guests from Fla coming in for next week" (her perfect excuse to blow off New Years Eve) "gotta go - haven't checked email in a month" (I had sent her emails with links to this site and some good divorce sites - which went ignored) "I'm going into work Fri, maybe I'll try and call then (again getting my hopes up - because she doesn't have to see me...she can just keep me on the back burner)<p>initially I wanted to email her back and blast her - but if she only checks it once a month - why bother ? I think when (if) she calls I will ask her: "do you feel what we are doing is wrong ?" and the unanswered question "are you getting separated/divorced?"<p>I have asked her the 2nd question numerous times - but she said we shouldn't always occupy our time talking about that problem. anyway - I just got done creating a very well written letter basically saying that I don't think we should continue our "relationship" as long as she is still married; but I would like to try again after she is separated/divorced. I plan on emailing, mailing her this letter after I ask her the above 2 questions.<p>BTW - I already have an appt Mon with the counselor I was seeing earlier this year. I am somewhat relieved by your replys and I will be more relieved after I explain to my counselor what I have been doing. <p>I'm not that religious (don't go to church; had to when I was little) but I knew down deep this was wrong.....probably because it felt so fantastic and like it would never end (that's that romantic love Dr Harley talks about...that fizzles out)<p>I DO have a couple questions you guys may be able to shed some light on:<p>1. why can't she just tell me that she wants to break it off instead of giving me excuses and then hanging in there to get together with me again??<p>2. why can't she bring herself to just execute the steps that it takes to get separated/divorced so we (who are supposed to be "in love") can start our brand honest life??<p>I have thought about what you guys have said about "wonder if she's done this before" and "if you guys DID get together, could you ever trust her?" these are real hard questions to answer and I guess it scares me to think of the answers.....but then again, if a WS comes back after 1 or more A's and they work on their marraige and succeed....how do you know that the WS won't have another A ??

thanks again for all of your help and I WILL keep you posted on my progress..however painful that may be.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by confused3rdparty:
<strong><p>I DO have a couple questions you guys may be able to shed some light on:<p>1. why can't she just tell me that she wants to break it off instead of giving me excuses and then hanging in there to get together with me again??<p>.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Does she hit you as an "HONEST" person? C'mon... If she is deceitful with her H, [whom she has been committed and married to for years] why would she be any different to some guy she met on the internet? Adulterers are not known for their honesty. Further, I should point out that a relationship built on deceit and subterfuge is doomed to failure.

Hi, <p>another opinion here but have you ever heard of options in the fog? <p>If her H was as abusive as you describe then she needs to go get help. Not from you but from a party that is not sexually connected to her. Right now you are the wrong medicine. You are more like an illict drug. Illegal drug.... bad medicine. <p>I understand you may feel for her but looks like she is using both you and her H. Like my H put it he wanted to keep his options open. So I closed my option and he didn't like only have OW as an option so he came home. <p>Hm...... isn't that funny? After all OW was convinced that I was some sort of psycotic abusive W and mother. That I used my H as a money machine and was violent. OW wanted to turn me into the police. But look who is here trying to work on recovery and guess where H is not!. So much for the lies. When H tried to clear my name with the Ow, well she would not hear of it. <p>So take my advice. run as quick as you can from this WS. She is not good marriage material for you. There is someone else who is truly honest and you need to be ready to meet that person. Unless you want to be in the same boat as her H is and then wonder why you should get upset?<p>L.

We often have OP’s (other persons) visit here. There are some who are regular posters here. So you are not out of line posing on MB. But do realize that the entire purpose of this web site it to build marriages.<p>As for the latest set of excuses. You can pretty much be sure that she is doing the same thing to her husband, and worse. It sounds like she does not know what she wants and is playing everyone for whatever she can. This is not a good situation for her. <p>Another point to ponder… many WS’s say that they keep an affair going far too long because they do not know who to break it off. They are afraid that if they get the OP angry, the OP will do something terrible to hurt their marriage. Could it be that she is giving you very strong signals that she wants to end the affair but you are not ‘listening’ to them? If a person were to be avoiding me in the manner she seems to be avoiding you, I would take it that way.<p>RE: I think when (if) she calls I will ask her: "do you feel what we are doing is wrong ?" <p>Why does it matter if she feels it is wrong or not? She is hurting you and her husband. I believe that you know it is wrong. In response to your question she will give you some convoluted response about how it could not be wrong because she loves you, yada yada yada. This could suck you back in. Not a good thing.<p>RE: and the unanswered question "are you getting separated/divorced?" <p>Again, has she filed for divorce yet? Does not sound like it. Seems you already know the answer. So why ask it? These questions will not get you any information of value. <p>Your idea of a no-contact letter to her is excellent. Why wait until you ask the questions. It will allow you to move on with your life. Then, if and when she leaves her marriage, you can decide if there is anything there.<p>RE: I'm not that religious (don't go to church; had to when I was little) but I knew down deep this was wrong.....probably because it felt so fantastic and like it would never end (that's that romantic love Dr Harley talks about...that fizzles out) <p>It is not wrong because it felt so good. Love should feel good. It is wrong because you are helping her hurt another person. That is always wrong, no matter is you are religious or not. <p>As for our questions.
#1... You have gotten good responses on this one already.
#2... She cannot bring herself to separate/divorce because it is not what she really wants. Always go by a person’s actions, not their words. If she wanted to leave her husband she would have already done that. Her relationship with her H is far from over.<p>
RE: (who are supposed to be "in love") can start our brand honest life?? <p>If you break up her marriage, you relationship will never be honest. It will have deceipt and pain as it’s foundation. Are you aware of the statistics that only 3% of affairs end in the adulterous couple getting married? And that of those marriages 70% end in divorce. The odds are not with you on this one.<p>RE: "if you guys DID get together, could you ever trust her?" these are real hard questions to answer and I guess it scares me to think of the answers.....but then again, if a WS comes back after 1 or more A's and they work on their marraige and succeed....how do you know that the WS won't have another A ??<p>Yes the WS will continue to have affairs until they address the issues in themselves that are leading to the affairs. You see, both spouses are responsible for the current state of the marriage at the time the affair started. But she, and she alone, is responsible for the choice of having an affair. What in her led her to make this choice to hurt the man she loves (yes her husband not you). Remember that she married her husband because she loves him. Their love may be at a low point but it certainly does not sound like the love for her husband has totally died.<p>[ December 28, 2001: Message edited by: zorweb ]</p>

well - the other shoe dropped. you guys were dead on about her trying to give me signals. I DID see them, but of course didn't want it to end.<p>I left messages on both cell phones to the effect how she was hurting all 3 of us plus each other's family; and that as long as she is married that we shouldn't get together - and in about 5 minutes I had a message in my voice-mail<p>"this is OW, you're right about everything but one thing - I don't lie, my phone did break and I do have company coming in next week, no time to myself. I totally agree with you and I don't want to keeping tearing up you, my H, or me. I am sorry I hurt you, take care and catch ya later"<p>so of course I called her back and again left messages on 2 cell phones (one of which rang so I knew she saw the number and let it go to voice mail) I said <p>"this is OP, I got your messages about hurting me and I am very hurt but don't want to be vindictive and like I said; once you're separated/divorced maybe then we can get together again. but when I go home I do have the reminders on the wall and your gifts are there, so I will be taking them down and giving back your gifts. also please tell your H that we are done so he doesn't keep coming around - I don't want to have to keep looking over my shoulder. I will also be emailing and mailing you a letter that explains my feelings. again I hope you iron out your problems and find happiness in your life"<p>now what hurts is wondering if she'll go out and have an A with someone else<p>it's no wonder thoughts of suicide and murder enter peoples minds....just so the WS doesn't have another A - don't worry, I'm not thinking about any of that; I'm just going to go home, email and mail the letter, take down & put away the decorations, pictures, etc and take down the tree (she picked it out)...doesn't feel like the holidays anymore<p>I think I'll chainsaw the tree Sat and then burn it up - that will feel good [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>just think - if you GREAT people wouldn't have been here for me, we would have keep hurting everyone for who knows how long ?<p>now I need your help....<p>1. what do you tell your friends and family when they ask "where is your girlfriend?"<p>2. besides going to counseling and asking for a gallon of anti-depressants, what next steps for me would you suggest?<p>again, I DO appreciate you being there for me and I will keep you posted on my progess

She may or may not be having another affair with someone else - it could be that her husband is beginning to meet her emotional needs and she just doesn't need to use you anymore. You do realize you were being used? I know that must hurt, but better to face the truth. I like the idea about taking a chain saw to that tree. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Don't contact her anymore, or tell her how you feel. You are adding to your pain. You can come here and post that if you want.<p>Tell those who inquire about her that it is over, it was not a healthy relationship. If you feel close enough to them - you could tell them it was a mistake, and you could even go as far as saying it was inappropriate. <p>The next step I would suggest, is to ask yourself if you have trouble with intimacy. When an OP gets involved with a person who is not available, I have to ask - Why? Why would they pursue something that has no future? Maybe that is the next step?<p>TNT

I think you should put your energy into finding yourself a woman who is not married and fully able to give all of herself to you. You are basically beating yourself up and allowing yourself to be used. Your best bet is to end all contacts with her. If anyone asks where she is just say the relationship is over. A relationship based on sex isn't a relationship anyway. Also it seems like alot of people who cheat paint their spouses as being evil monsters who make their lives miserable. That isn't always the case. They have to tell the OP something to get their sympathy and understanding. Then it doesn't make them look so ugly. Do yourself a favor and move on and find a girl who doesn't lie and isn't married.

Hi C3P,<p>You did so good!<p>Now, here's a warning for you ....<p>I can almost guarantee she will be in contact (couple months perhaps) when her and Hubby start having their probs again. Do not let yourself be used.<p>If you can be strong enough, change all your phone numbers and block her email addy. Be done with her.<p>Find yourself an "available" female, there are plenty out there that would love a guy with morals and character.<p>I'm so sorry you have this pain and grief, you can and will recover. And best of all, I know you've learned something important from this experience. <p>Don't fall back into the Affair when she contacts you, C3P. It will only prolong your grief and stagnate your life. You deserve better.<p>Love to you,
Jo