Are the black and blue marks showing up yet from that beating you are taking?

You really want things over and done with right now! Are you wanting to distance yourself financially from him, or is it emotional severance you are looking for?

You seem more distant on the forum lately, as if your mind is made up and you are just waiting. I suppose you have said as much a time or two at least in speculation trying to understand your own thoughts.

At this point I don't suspect it helps much to speak with him. If the figures check out, then it is pretty much over with. He has shown he is not truthful in the past, no reason to believe he would be entirely truthful now. I know it would be nice if he was, but he seems to make up whatever story he thinks you will have the least problem with, not realizing that making things up is part (a larger part) of the problem. It looks to me like you are afraid he will spring something on you to do with this sale like he did when he left you. Fear of the unknown, so to speak.

I think your solicitor will look after you and so you need not worry about things being changed without your knowledge.
If your name is on the loan, then he should pay it. If not, then do you have power to make him do it now? Or under the law if something happened to him ( until D was final) would you have to pay it? If you would, then he should also take care of it now.

To summarize, if there is any chance you would ever be held responsible for any part of the debt, he should retire it completely so as to release you from obligation.

If not, then even if you know it will sink him deeper and deeper, you should probably let him do what he wants. I hope this is done before Christmas so you can rest. I hate these kinds of things hanging over me too. You spend all your time worrying and can't relax and enjoy the time off.

Has C grown an inch or two since turning nine? Now that he is older have the other two left off teasing him?
I bet I know the answer to that one. And BTW, my brothers and I still tease each other, but we don't get in fights any longer.

SS

Thanks SWS you made me smile again.
No i'm not black and blue, just very tired!

I think the loan is his only and that I can't be made to pay it so yes i will ring in the morning and say its his debt he can do what he wants with it.

I am sure the solicitor will take care of things.

Have I made up my mind- perhaps its hard to say , my emotions are less volatile but still he can upset me and its because there is still some feelings for him. I would still have him back- just- but can't say for how much longer, not much I am afraid and feel guilty for that which is prhaps why I seem distant.

Jante

Hi SS and thanks again for helping me sleep last night by putting things into perspective.
Rang H this morning and told him that as long as the solicitor agreed he could have the loan money as a lump ssum and pay off the debt as he has been doing. He confirmed my name wasn't on the agreement. H then went on to explain that he had run up high credit card bill and thought it better to clear it as the interest was higher than the loan payments. I told him that if he expected me to agree to his decisions he needed to communicate with me as I was no longer willing to rubber stamp any decision he made financially. I also said I wasn't attempting to punish him or be unfair but that having got my finances in order I refused to jeopardise them. Through it all H sounded upset- not sure if he has more problems than he is actually telling me! Any way after phone call with solicitor who said it had to be my decision as long as I was sure my name wasn't on the agreement then she would release the funds to him. I have authorised her to do so and hopefully cheque for my share is now in the post.
I am hoping that this is the end of the saga of Castle Levan which was the down fall of my marriage!

Hope you are having a much more peaceful build up to the hoilday season.
Jante

Hi J !!
It's been fun to hang around here, seems like there is often something going on. You are an interesting person, and I never get tired of conversing with you.

........ thanks again for helping me sleep last night by putting things into perspective.
Glad I could help, even if just a little bit.

Rang H this morning and told him that as long as the solicitor agreed he could have the loan money as a lump sum and pay off the debt as he has been doing. He confirmed my name wasn't on the agreement. H then went on to explain that he had run up high credit card bill and thought it better to clear it as the interest was higher than the loan payments.
Ah, credit card debt, that explains a lot. I find T to be a very interesting person. ( I chose the word interesting instead of other words I could have used that are not as nice.) He lives life as though things will never catch up to him. It's as though he says " Someday I'll pay my debt, but I won't worry about it now. Someday I'll think about my family, but not now." That is one reason I encourage plan B. It is time for at least one thing to catch up to him.

Your thread title really doesn't apply.........yet.
He doesn't know he has lost everything. Levan is gone, but was probably gone to him when he left you at first. The car and other things he just replaces and runs up his debt but as long as he is able to continue, it is not real to him. To you and I, debt is a huge weight pulling us down, but to him, it seems (from where I sit and observe) as if it is nothing, as though it were not even there.
I believe it has been this way all along for him?? If I remember it has caused problems before between you.

Through it all H sounded upset- not sure if he has more problems than he is actually telling me!
It would not surprise me, but I even feel bad for him. He could be happy, if only he would.

Any way after phone call with solicitor who said it had to be my decision as long as I was sure my name wasn't on the agreement then she would release the funds to him. I have authorized her to do so and hopefully cheque for my share is now in the post.
I would have said "hold on to it, I'll be there tomorrow morning when you open to get it !!!!"
Well, perhaps not, but I know you will be glad to have this over with. I will wait to see where you go as you tour the world for 6 months. Try to keep in touch, perhaps you will need a laptop, but that should not be a problem as you are an acomplished computer shopper now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Warning !! Major vent ahead !!
I am hoping that this is the end of the saga of Castle Levan which was the down fall of my marriage!
The downfall of your marriage was how he reacts to problems. He leaves.

Trouble? I won't discuss it, I won't get counseling, I won't read books, or find a solution, I'll leave, and perhaps it will go away. Problems with money? Don't examine the budget, and make changes, just borrow more. Someday I am sure the debt will just go away.

OK, vent finished.

Perhaps you did contribute to the problem, but you were also willing to contribute to solving it. He was not.
I repeat what I have said before - I hope he wakes up before it is too late.
It almost is.

Hope you are having a much more peaceful build up to the hoilday season.
Attended school play for the twins last night. Sara had a speaking part, Amanda a singing part. W attended Lauras concert. I saw the concert last week so attended play this week. Busy but peaceful - as it can be with children in the home, but you know all about that.

Those bruises will heal, by New Years no one will even know you had a row. You need to relax and rest. If you have extra time, I recommend extra prayer. I believe it was Christ that said "my yoke is easy, and my burden light." It wouldn't hurt for your burden to be lightened a little for a week or two. I still have a great deal of respect for you. Bouquets all around. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

SS

Hi folks and especially SS.
It's as though he says " Someday I'll pay my debt, but I won't worry about it now. Someday I'll think about my family, but not now." That is one reason I encourage plan B. It is time for at least one thing to catch up to him.

What a good description of T. He does indeed not expect things to catch up with him.

To you and I, debt is a huge weight pulling us down, but to him, it seems (from where I sit and observe) as if it is nothing, as though it were not even there.
I believe it has been this way all along for him?? If I remember it has caused problems before between you
Yes quite true he never worried as much as I did and he would just leave bills etc in a drawer rather than face them. I eventually took it all on so I knew where we were.

would have said "hold on to it, I'll be there tomorrow morning when you open to get it !!!!"

Would have been nice but 300 miles is a long way to go to collect a cheque. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> However I had a phone call from soliciotrs clerk this afternoon to confirm my address and they were putting the cheque in the post at that point!! So this saga is hopefully well and truly over.

I will wait to see where you go as you tour the world for 6 months.

Well it was a nice dream but having decided to get my finances settled I won't be going on the workd tour- or even on a holiday. Have set most aside to put money into the mortgage to reduse it quickly, but kept enough back to restructure and refit the kitchen.( In my mind of course at the moment)
I hope he wakes up before it is too late.It almost is
So true- I find the thoughts of filing for dv intruding more and more- and not with any fear or dislike anymore. I want to move on and am finding it hard to imagine that including T anymore.

However I still leave it in Gods hands though I don't find it easy to have faith that T will come back any more ( and find myself feeling guilty for that)

Glad to hear of the fun for the children at school concerts- these are proud moments for parents.

Have a great holiday

Jante

Hi folks
Have had an interesting day today. H MIL and FIL came for the day and we had a mini christmas as MIL and FIL won't be with us on Wed. MIL got me in the kitchen on my own almost as soon as they arrived to ask " is there any news? Is there any chance do you think?" I told her of my conversation with H in Oct when he said he would file for dv in March and that he seemed happy at the moment with OW. She was disappointed but said she thought I'd done all I possibly could. Then had a lovely meal together they opened their presents from me and boys, and from H. ( I had told him to get his own this year!) Later MIL and I went for a walk and she asked me more about how things had gone when the boys met oW, whether I thought H would stay with OW etc. She said seeing him so comfortable in my home and with me made it very hard to understand why he was doing this and what went through his head. She also asked about the presents as in the past we continued to get the presents jointly so I explained how I felt.
Later she suggested I got H a special Christmas card as she felt it would make him think. I'd been wondering about this but said nothing so went and bought one- nothing romantic or lovey dovey, but a bit more special than one from a boxed set, and wrote a brief message in
" Hope you find the true Spirit of Love this Christmas.
After IL's left I took H upstairs to see the presents 'we' had bought for the boys as I'd done most of the shopping. I suggestdd he might like to hang on and help me wrap them but he said he'd best not- it was 7pm and he had 150 miles to drive. He hovered then and seemed about to say something but didn't. I decided not to ask but to go downstairs. He then got ready to leave and I gave him the cards. he looked a bit taken aback at the red envelope from me but didn't comment. Hes now left and will be back up by 9am on Christmas morning to spend the day with us.

Not sure how I feel after this a bit bemused i think.

Jante

Hi folks Have had an interesting day today.
You have got to be the master of understatement - LOL. I like reading your posts.

MIL got me in the kitchen on my own almost as soon as they arrived to ask " is there any news? Is there any chance do you think?"
That tells you how much MIL thinks of your ability. She could ask him, but she trusts you so much, and she asks you and she expects something. She expects something. Wow !

She was disappointed but said she thought I'd done all I possibly could.
Yes, Me too ! Me too! ( or is it " I also" , too long since I had an English class.)

Then had a lovely meal together they opened their presents from me and boys, and from H. ( I had told him to get his own this year!) Later MIL and I went for a walk and she asked me more about how things had gone when the boys met OW, whether I thought H would stay with OW etc. She said seeing him so comfortable in my home and with me made it very hard to understand why he was doing this and what went through his head. Yes, he acts like he belongs there, ( duh, he does belong there, SS slaps forehead and wonders what he was thinking.)

Later she suggested I got H a special Christmas card as she felt it would make him think.
She really likes you, and that is good........ but then, we all like you, so I should expect that she would.

He hovered then and seemed about to say something but didn't. I decided not to ask but to go downstairs. If this was a DVD, I would fast forward to see what happened. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Not sure how I feel after this a bit bemused i think.
J, If you read my last post to LIR, I want you to know that in my opinion, you have done it the right way. ( I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO SAY ABOUT THAT, SO JUST LEAVE IT ALONE !!!.) And I know what you are saying to yourself about this comment, " This comes from a guy that thinks he can get into heaven through a trapdoor in a shed, so how much stock should I give to what he says" !!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

She said seeing him so comfortable in my home and with me made it very hard to understand why he was doing this and what went through his head.
We have discussed this one before, but I have to comment on it again. I don't have a clue, and it drives me nuts. There is a lot of good in the man, why doesn't he snap out of this and come home ??

I'm' in a crazy mood, can you tell? LOL, LOL, I better go. Have a nice Sunday, or if you read this later, hope you did have a nice one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hi ss is the crazy mood the result of the approaching holiday season?
I am enjoying my sunday. Time with the church this am and then home with boys for lunch. A long walk in the fields with the dog, back home to find a friend ( who is in similar position to me) waiting for a coffee and chat. I am finding a continuing peace and joy in life. Have 4 whole days without the boys but friends are determined that I shouldn't be alone- so much so I may have to start turning down invitations so I can have some necessary peace and quiet to myself. I hope you and all your family have a great time
Jante

Dear jante,

I just wanted to let you know that I am here, and how much I appreciate you posting what you do - I learn a lot from reading your thread - mostly about patience and generosity - which I feel sorely lacking in right now. You have much more self-control than I do at the moment, and I can see that your spirit of generosity is helping you to find peace and joy in your life, even if your H doesn't appreciate it, and even though he is not with you at the moment. You have been through so much more than I have, and I want you to know I admire you very much.

I hope you find some peace and joy this Christmas with your boys.

God bless,
LIR

Thanbks LIR I hope you have a peaceful christmas. I am glad my saga has helped you - I only do what I can at any given time!!

Well cheque arrived this am which means that chapter in my life is now well and truly closed. A mixture of relief and sadness.

Oh well off to deposit it in the bank and enjoy the christmas festivities. A very merry Christmas and Brighter better New Year to all who read this.

Jante

I am happy that you have one less thing to worry about. Heres to a Merry Christmas for you and your family. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I keep wondering what Christmas day will be like and what he is thinking when he is there. I wonder if he believes that it will go on forever like it is now, he comes, visits, talks to you, gets some of his needs met, and leaves.

I would like to speak to him, but that will probalby never happen.

I believe you are finding you can be happy even though your world is not yet complete. I am glad, but I still wish for a good ending to all your hard work. I believe God will bless you for your effort. Again, Merry Christmas to a fine friend.
( and If I have time tomorrow, I'll wish it again, how about that ! )
SS

Just a quick Happy Christmas to all my friends. Jante

I tried to think of some kind of joke to play on you today to make you laugh, but I can't think of a good one. Perhaps that peace on earth, good will to all men is finally coming out in me. As my W is fond of saying, maybe there is still hope for me yet.

I think there is a lot of hope for you. No matter what happens, I wish you the best of days tomorrow. I think LIR has expressed the same high opinion of you that I have, so I'll just say - na, na, na, naaaa, naaaa, I was right all along. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Oh darn, I've done it again after all. At least I tried to behave.

Merry Christmas, to a fine fellow traveler on a very interresting journey.

SS

Hi SS smiling anyway!!
Found this quote at the end of a recipe for roast goose and thought I'd share it with others- it speaks of the place we need to be in.
"The circumstances of one's life must not dictate the terms of our living
it. That decision lies solely in our decisions on how to react to circumstances"

Blessings to you all.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Jante

Hi friends
A very nice time in this household. H arrived at exactly 9am as he had promised the boys. We all opened presents together and then boys enjoyed their gifts while I cooked lunch. H offered to help and did a few things while I got on. Sat and enjoyed a very nice lunch and then once clearing up was done- ( H offered to help a 180 for him!!) He sat and relaxed while I walked the dog. No one else wanted to come. H stayed and ate some tea then watched a TV programme with the children and I before deciding he'd best leave. Said good bye to the boys and I walked him to the door as I always do. Once there he looked at me and said " Do you want a hug?" and proceeded to give me one. First time he has offered rather than be asked for one in 2 years! Then off he went to his London home.

I enjoyed today and did wonder how he felt having to leave his children - yet found myself quite glad when he had gone. I find myself sitting making small talk with a stranger these days. I am at peace and love life- not sure what the future holds but know it will be good what ever.

Oh and bye the way the goose was cooked to perfection!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Jante

Hi folks am enjoying four quiet days without the boys but only after major battle first.ES had kept insisting that he wasn't going to his dads- I had told him to discuss it with his dad which he did on the phone this morning as his dad was on his way here. When dad arrived S still arguing with him about going. I left them to it. H then decided to put bags in car so I went out and asked him what he was going to do, he said -" I'll insist he comes- is that what you want!" I pointed out it wasn't a matter of what I wanted after all if it was that then we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. H acknowledged that and went back in to 'fight' some more with son. After 40 minutes son had agreed to go. Dad had bribed him with the promise of a trip he would enjoy later. This isn't about son visiting dad or being where OW is but him wanting freedom to spend the holidays with his friends and doesn't see why he should suffer because of what his dad has done- he pointed that out to his dad. I waas glad they sorted it, and refused to take on board any guilt that i was 'sending' them to their dad. They see very little of him in the scheme of things and need to sp[end time with him.
Ah well peace and goodwill of christmas over.

Hope everyone else had a good time Jante

Hi J,
Today I came and read over the last few days and I wondered if there was anything I could say to help you. You seem centered in your emotions and not in any danger rignt now. I was pleased with the way you handled the trouble with D not wanting to go, and I can't see any better way you could have done it. It was especially good how you explained things to T, leaving me to believe that you are doing well emotionally, not just getting by.

So, you have had some time alone - and when I have time alone I tend to think quite a bit. It will be interresting to see what comes out of this time.

I want to tell you again that I came here to support, not to lead. Whatever you do, I will try and give support. There have got to be a great many thoughts still going round and round in your head. I pray today for you to find peace and happiness, not for things to happen any given way.

I'll see you later.

SS

<small>[ December 28, 2002, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi and thanks for dropping by SS.

I am pretty centred emotionally and having a pleasant few days break without the boys. Though I haven't had much time on my own. The day the boys left I'd been invited to my close friends family for lunch and spent the afternoon with them. Yesterday I was out a lot of the day having a new kitchen planned and went for coffee and shopping with a friend. Then just before I left for church this am I had a phone call from my 'adopted ' daughter asking if her, husband and their daughter could stop off to visit this afternoon and stay the night on their way back up to Scotland. I left for church rejoicing. I don't get to see them very often.

Rang boys yesterday evening- all are enjoying themselves. They'd been taken to Brighton for the day and to have fairground rides. Had a momentary twinge of 'jealousy' that I wasn't there for thi foirst experience but was also glad they have enjoed themselves. The boys return Tuesday and my mum comes to visit. So my 'quiet' time has been and gone very quickly.

Jante

Hi SS,
This evening rang sons to speak to at 7pm as previously arranged with H. OW answered the phone and informed me I couldn't speal with them as they were in the middle of their meal . They would call me back in half an hour. They duly did and we chatted about all the things they have been doing while with Dad and OW- out to Brighton on Saturday out to hear The Stomp today and bowling with OWs friends yesterday. Don't get me wroong I'm glad they are having fun but how do I get over the hurt, a of having to speak to OW when I phone to speak to my children and b, knowing that they are having such fun times without me. Sorry folks mini pity party in progress but will get over it soon.
Jante

J,
I'm not much help with this one because I have not been there. I think it would be very hard. How in the world did you cope when OW came to your home?

By the time you read this, you will be doing better, but I am still sorry you have to have these feelings, it's not right.

All I can say is that I know there are still many looking after you. Wish I could help more.

SS