HI ALL,<BR> This is a long one but PLEASE try and read it and PLEASE respond!! I NEED you guys tonight!!<BR> BAD NEWS FIRST:----------- OK spent the day with W today as planned. BIG surprise when she called. She and OM put a deposit on a house together. She can't get financed alone so OM Real Estate Business is putting it into a trust with W's name one it too. <BR> Sounded real bad but.... they have been trying to "land" for two months. They originally had money on a mobile home that fell through. She said at the time she prayed to God if it didn't go through it was a sign this was a mistake. She of course DIDN'T take her "sign" to heart. They tried another house and that feel through. Now they have to move out of their "Temp" apartment by 11/23 So they made a low offer (5 other people looked at it after they did!!) so MAYBE someone bid higher!!! Pray for that PLEASE. AND the woman doesn't want to close until late January. So were will they go?<P>GOOD NEWS:<P> STILL made sure we had a GREAT day. Lots of fun. Lunch, Boston, shopping and PERFECT weather (thanks God!) NO LBs Gave her two cards that she read in front of me. One about "Follow your heart, it will tell you what to do, I Hope it leads you back to me. With a little note from me inside. W said it was beautiful and smiled and thanked me. And one about "Trusting God and leaning on him" A little better reaction. <P>BUT we got stuck in traffic on the way home and TALKED and TALKED and TALKED. About? You guessed it US!! I think I actually got her into "conflict" today! W started by saying " I really just DON'T want a LOVE relationship" "I'm no good to ANYONE in a LOVE relationship" "It ALWAYS ends up like this because I'm so selfish and moody" I <P> told W that I loved her so much and we could make it work with what I had learned"<P> Then W said "But I still have a LOT of anger and hurt about what happened" She started to cry. "I promised her I would NEVER hurt her again" and rubbed her shoulder. I told her I had a lot of hurt and anger too but was willing to admit MY part in what has happened. <P> I said "You may have been hurt but you made the choice to be w OM" "And you are married" W said "I'm tired of EVERYONE telling me I'm married!!" "I want a divorce but you're not gonna give me one are you?" "You're going to make me do it!" I told her that if she REALLY REALLY wanted a divorce I would do it" I asked her to wait until after the holidays please because I didn't want to deal with it then. (STALL) W also said that if WE were meant to be that a piece of paper didn't mean anything. <BR> <BR>W said "If we try and it doesn't work, it will be ME that's destroyed emotionally in a heap on the floor not you." I just don't want a LOVE relationship a with ANYONE anymore"<P> Then we talked about ALL her, then my LOVE relationships and how they ALWAYS ended the same for BOTH of us. I told her neither one of us UNDERSTOOD the tools needed to SUSTAIN a LOVE R. I told her I NOW KNOW how to do it. It takes work, but I'm convinced that our marriage can be what BOTH of us always wanted.<BR> She told me how HARD she tried to make it work for us. I told her that although we LOVED we didn't speak the LANGUAGE that we could understand. <P> I'm convinced now that the OM loves my W like that but she's looking for a friend that she can live with who will hug her and kiss her help her financially and not pressure her for sex (OM is 60) <P> W said "From the beginning you had it ALL wrong about me and OM." You think it's this big romantic thing" Well it isn't" I don't want that at my age (47 going through menopause) <BR> I told W that she is a VERY passionate person and that she can try to suppress that passion BUT it will turn to anger or SOMETHING harmful to her in the long run.<BR> Well, it was a LONG conversation and I could go ON and on. <BR> When we got back to her car I told her again how much I loved her and kissed her goodbye. I held the second kiss a little longer and the third even longer by the fourth kiss I got a little sexual and W pulled back SMILING and said "You are making this SOO hard for me" I smiled and said " DAM RIGHT!" "You've had it TOO easy for the last 2 months" <BR> W said "HUH! you think this has been easy!!!!" And smiled again. I kissed her softly and told her. "If I met you today I'd sweep you off your feet so fast and hard, you wouldn't know what hit you!!!" She smiled and shook her head. She kept looking out the drivers window waving until she couldn't see anymore. Well? How'd I do????<BR> <P> <P> <P>------------------<BR>desperate<BR>"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??" <BR>"Wisdom is why!!"<P>

It sounds like you handled it very well. It is so good that you got to talk about your relationship. Keep up the good work and no love busting!<P>Jaded Heart

i think you did real good- honest, loving, not judgemental. saty the course, long ride ahead.

I think you did well, but I do see a few love busters. I didn't think they were until everyone told told me I was doing it and didn't know it.<P>No educating. I think everyone told me that telling her that she does this or should or shouldn't do that is disrepectful (LB) You trying to tell her that neither of you UNDERSTOOD the...this is educating, I don't know, maybe it could be rephrased to only include you but yet put a thought in her head.<P>Over all though it sounded like a fine day.<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

It sounds great! If you can keep this up you'll be doing fine. I like the way you handled the request for the divorce, you aren't trying to love bust in my opinion but let her know that your trying to change things and make them better! <BR>God Bless You!<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!<P>

You did good. You said W is going through menopause is she on some type of hormones. This maybe the cause of some of the problems. Now don't get me wrong I don't mean it is the cause of her afair or anything like that. BUt going through the change will cause your emotion to go from extreme high to extreme lows and the sexual thing also it will cause you to lack one I don't know if this is normal for her if it isn't then it could be the lack of hormones or the wrong kind or not enough. Just some suggestions. I just know how I felt and feel on my hormons. I don't understand why she doesn't want somethingromantic at her age 47, I am 48 and believe me I would love to have romance and ... BUt it isn't my choice. That is why I think there is something physically wrong here. <BR>Again you did good.<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

jadedheart,<BR> Thanks for the encouragement. I'm Trying to not LB!!<P>Covenant,<BR> I'm afraid I agree with you, it WILL be a long road ahead! At one point I DID get a little frustrated and said "Maybe you're right, maybe I should just get on with my life!" I can't remember what W said exactly but she said something to encourage me NOT to GO on with my life. <P>Paul,<BR> I DID notice a little resistance when I was telling her what NOT to do and when I "Educated" Thanks for the insight, I REALLY can't afford to LB Thanks for the encouragement!!<P>chick's,<BR> Keeping it up IS SOOOOOO HARD!! I am just EMOTIONALLY EXHAUSTED from holding back the LB's!! I'm REALLY worried about them getting this house. It's SUCH a commitment!<P> I called her this morning and we talked about a 1/2 hour. Mostly about nothing. A little about our dog that we bought on our honeymoon who's VERY old and senile now. We talked about "putting him down" I said I really don't want to think about it because of WHEN we bought him. I Said "I know it's stupid but if I put him down I feel like I'm killing our marriage" I asked if it was an omen about him dying "Does it mean that our marriage is over?" <BR> W got upset and said "You're crazy, you have to stop thinking like that!!" "What does my father dying mean?" That MY life is over because he brought me into the world?" You have to stop that "Stink'in think'in" ?????????????<P>SDS,<BR> W isn't on ANYTHING for the menopause. The "sex thing is normal for the last 3 years (since some shrink has her thinking she was sexually abused by her father or his friend!!) <BR> I KNOW she's surpressing the "romantic thing" (or really just transferred it to OM and is lying) because she REALLY feels she is not cut out for a consistent long term romantic relationship. All of her's have failed. W said she's afraid that if it doesn't work out with US she will NEVER survive it emotionally.<P> Thanks for the input!! ANYONE ELSE or you guys want to add anything PLEASE??<BR> I'm really bumming today. I just want this OVER!! I hate the thought of the holidays this year!! I'm trying so hard and feel I'm getting NOWHERE sometimes. Maybe I should just forget it. I know it's only been two months but.. geez does the PAIN EVER GO AWAY??<P>------------------<BR>desperate<BR>"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??" <BR>"Wisdom is why!!"<P>

Frank,<P>You did <B>GREAT</B>!!!<P>I think she's folding... she's still very confused, and there is <B>love there</B>.<P>Okay, two cards are a bit much, and four kisses too... but hey, she read the cards, let you kiss her... I'm smiling... she's folding...<P>Horrid news about buying the house together. I hope someone overbid... Geez... can you do anything to stop it?????<P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

HI Sheryl,<BR> OK maybe I went a little overboard. But like you said HEY, she let me!! <BR> The house thing has me worried but she REALLY confused me about it!!<BR> First, she was "selling me" the house!!!! She told me all the things I WOULD LIKE ABOUT IT. It has a basketball court in back MY DREAM!! It has a full finished basement, again something I ALWAYS WANT in a house. <BR> She told me that she was going to work her butt off and rent the finished basement out to help pay the mortgage.<BR> THEN she asked if she could have the bed in our spare bedroom SO SHE COULD HAVE HER MOTHER UP IF/WHEN HER FATHER PASSED ON???????<P> Could she REALLY have the nerve to invite her MOTHER up to stay with OM there????<BR> I hate to say this but I think my W may be using this guy to get a house!!!! US a house ,somewhere down the line?? Maybe not, but why tell me the things I'D like about it if it hasn't crossed her mind?<BR> I really don't like to think she'd be so conniving but, we DO have problems getting financed on a house AND IRS problems. She is a survivor!! Always prided herself in that!! I don't know. The house is out of my hands, it's in God's now as is my marriage. LMK what you think. THANKS AND PRAYERS FRANK<P>------------------<BR>desperate<BR>"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??" <BR>"Wisdom is why!!"<P>

Frank,<P>What do I think? Hmmmm.... well, confusing, like you said.<P>If, and it's a BIG if, she is getting the house with you in mind, she's a little (now don't get mad) nutty. That would be very wrong, don't you think?? Maybe she is using him for a "co-signer" and she thinks she'll live there alone, only to invite you and the family there at some point. Gosh, I guess I'd try to find an appropriate time to ask her what she's thinking. <P>The more I read on this forum, the more I think that the spouses who insist on hanging on to their affairs are a bit on the loopy side. They fight for what they beleive when it's obviously SO WRONG. And who's left behind to pick up the pieces? Well, the faithful spouse, of course! (That would be you, my dearest Frank).<P>I don't know what to say to you, except that I still stand by my thought that she is VERY CONFUSED and LOVES YOU, despite her confusion.<P>I hope I'm not making you mad, never intended. <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

Hi, Frank, sorry I'm late. Fighting a few personal demons this week.<P>I think you did a great job. And, I, too think she's folding!!<P>The house thing is yucky. But I have the feeling that's a snowball type thing. You know, started the ball rolling before she started conflicting and isn't sure enough to turn back, so it rolls on and on. <P>OK, so sometimes I think strange things.<P>Kisses!!! Four!!! OOHHHH!!<P>Keep it up - it ain't over yet.<P>Lori

HI Sheryl,<BR> Me mad at you? HA! <BR> I don't think she consciously thinking of getting the house with me in mind. I think it's kind of like what she said JUST before she left. "I wanted to feel that way about you but couldn't" "You kept sending me mixed messages"!! <BR> Although she's buying it with OM, she WISHES it was with ME.<BR> His RE company is buying it and putting it in a trust for her?? I realtor told me today that couldn't be done!!! OM may be lying to her and just keeping her "Hopeful" until he can get her to move there with him. THAT WON'T WORK for her!! Believe me!! The FIRST time he lies to her, he's toast!!<P> If she IS using him that is pretty crazy & nasty (or desperate) She REALLY hates where we live because it reminds her of her deceit and my anger I'm sure. I REALLY don't think she could do it consciously, although I've often thought she had two separate personalities!! One BAD or maybe TOUGH is the right word (comes out to protect her when she hurts) and one SOOOO sweet and kind and loving. The problem is when she's hurt, the TOUGH comes out and does so much damage that the sweet one has to PAY for it WHICH sends the TOUGH one out to deal with it!! Whew!! Maybe I'M nutty!!<BR> I KNOW she loves me. Well, I feel she does MORE when someone ELSE tells me that THANKS. The TOUGH one won't LET her come home, YET. The sweet one does always get her way and she repairs the bridges the TOUGH one BURNS down. Always happens that way. Thanks for the "my dearest Frank" It's been a while. <BR> One of the things that KILLS me is this toothless, impudent, beer belly swinging, weeks away from "depends" wearing crusty OLD smelly man (?) !!!! Has TWO women chasing him!! My W and his ex fiancée (who calls and cries to me almost every night!) <BR> WHAT IN THE WORLD IS WRONG WITH ME??? <BR> How's your life?<BR> Hugs and Prayers Frank<P> <BR>Lori,<BR> You don't think strange things, you think logically. Like me! I think you're right about the SNOWBALL thing. <BR> It's easier to "keep going" than risk being WRONG TWICE!! Once when they leave and once when they come back.<BR> It also becomes a matter of "proving this is meant to be" Not wrong and ugly and hurtful!! Four kisses? YES!! I backed off too!!<BR> Thanks Lori for your encouragement. I posted to your last post again. I hope you're OK I'm praying for you. Frank<BR> <P>------------------<BR>desperate<BR>"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??" <BR>"Wisdom is why!!"<P>

I concur with everyone else...<P><B>Great job</B>...<BR>You can't be a perfectionist... minor LB-ing "education" is something you can work your way out of in the future... Don't sweat it... <P>The best progress is by the little steps... (remember the story of the tortoise and the hare!)<BR>You'll need many more little steps... but I think you're on the right track. <P>Jim

HI Jim,<BR> Thanks for the "Great Job" Sometimes I do try to be TOO much TOO fast. OK I'm a tortoise!!!! Better than the A** I've BEEN feeling like for two months! <P> THANKS AND PRAYERS, FRANK<P>------------------<BR>desperate<BR>"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??" <BR>"Wisdom is why!!"<P>

BACK TO TOP THANKS

I think that the day you spent with your W sounds very romantic, the type of date that will ultimately win her back. You seem able to keep your cool and not get mad or ruffled when she said the hurtful things about the possible divorce. She, on the other hand, seems like she's got a very tall wall built up around her that she doesn't want anyone to scale. Good luck in your next stepsto rebuild your marriage with her, and if there's any justice left in the world, I hope that they don't get the house!<BR> Bright Blessings!<BR> Wealtheow

Hey Frank,<P>Regarding:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>toothless, impudent, beer belly swinging, weeks away from "depends" wearing crusty OLD smelly man<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! <P>Sorry, couldn't help myself!!! <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

Wealtheow,<BR> Thanks for the lift in spirits!!! I'm sure you're right about the "wall".<BR> It has caused many a tearful night for her (and me sometimes) in our 15yr Marriage.<BR> I responed to your post too. GOOD LUCK I think you guys will be alright. Sometimes these things are a cry for help. THANKS AND PRAYERS FRANK<P> Hey Sheryl, <BR> I'm glad you enjoyed reading that as much as I did writing it!!!<BR> Believe it or not, I held back. <BR> How are you guys doing. Not much from you lately. Praying for you guys as always. FRANK<P>------------------<BR>desperate<BR>"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??" <BR>"Wisdom is why!!"<P>

Frank,<P>Ya know that numb feeling after you get the filling in your tooth... a kinda heavy, although not painful place? That's where we are. I guess you could say it isn't good or bad - just is. And, I suppose, that's okay for now.<P>Thanks for asking... sorry I'm not more up!!<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

Sheryl,<BR> BETTER THAN THE PAIN!!! HANG SISTER, HANG!! FRANK<P>------------------<BR>desperate<BR>"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??" <BR>"Wisdom is why!!"<P>