Hi - this is my first time writing. I have been married since 7-3-02 - and in the beginning my husband seemed like such a sweet kind and loving man. Then there appeared another side - with angry outburst - name calling - and the day before thanksgiving it escalated to him shoving me so hard and with such violence - that my tail bone was broken. It was such a horrible experience - I was terrified of him. To make a long story short, he is in jail and has been since then - he pleaded guilty -

We have talked about the incident and written letters - and we both love each other. He will be released 1-9-03 - and wants to come home. I have very mixed feelings about it - I know he has a temper - and he drinks - he says he is going to AA - and spend the rest of his life being good to me - I want to believe him - but I don't know if I can take the chance - does anyone out there have any advice for me -

Signed - His Princess

ilbc-

Besides AA for him and perhaps AL-Anon for you, you both should be in some MC, together! Also, encourage him, if he wants to be good to YOU, then he should get involved in anger management counseling, as well. Sounds too early in a M for this level of violence to be taking place if ever!

Is there any place else he can live while you both aggresively (not the proper place for this term) work on one another after he is released?!

Not sure of your entire story, but did you do anything to provoke him (I'm not asking to excuse or condone his behavior, either)? What was the situation surrounding him pushing you as hard as he did? Sounds to me that he has some past issues to address and lay to rest!

I'm praying for your strength adn courage to do what's right for YOU!

In Christ's Name!
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IF...he is serious about learning to control his outburst and anger in a constructive way...he needs counseling. He should began counseling BEFORE he comes back home. jmho

I'm a strong believer in second chances, but only when changes are made. I'm trying to put myself in your shoes and think of how I might handle such a situation:

1st you must understand that domestic violence is a way of life for some people. Women do not have the strength to leave abusive men, and I would think that these types of ties would only get stronger the longer you put up with this type of behavior. A friend of mine had an abusive father and he said the reason his mother never left was because of "the good times". ie. when he wasn't drinking. Don't stoop to this position. NO one deserves to be a punching bag no matter how good the "good times" are.

2nd - This is his problem, not yours. You can not make him nonabusive. Only he can. So therefore HE must take steps to work this out. If you have to take the steps for him, then he's not really wanting to change. Sure, he might get a little better, but basically you've still got the same old person with just a little more knowledge now.

3rd - Do not complicate the matter with children. If you do not have children now, then please, please, don't think that entering a child into the equation will help matters!!

4th - Don't cover up for him, and don't excuse his behavior. You'll keep doing this until it gets you killed.

5th - Don't give him unlimited "chances". One second chance should show you what he's made of. If he gets into an aggressive situation and shows you that he can back away without striking you, then continue with him, but if after all his efforts he still strikes you - get out!!

Dear Inlove,

Domestic violence is something that does not get better on its own in time, nor does it stay at the same level--it escalates over time. The more time that these issues are not addressed, the more the domestic violence will escalate. Do you hope to start a family one day? Domestic violence will also be perpetrated on your precious children--and one or more of your children may become abusers themselves (in your home and in their own homes when they grow up and move out).

NOW is the time to start addressing these issues if you want to stay with your H. You can continue to love him and set boundaries that will be enforced EVERY time. Please take the advice that others gave you and get professional help--you need it as much as your H does. This is not a lost cause, but it can quickly turn into one if these issues are not addressed.

I wish you both well.

You did the right thing having him put in jail. I didn't. The week before Christmas last year, 12 days after I had major surgery requiring a 5 day stay in the hospital, I threatened to call this former co-worker of his whom he said kept calling him and he couldn't hang up. He stopped me from calling for one minute when he hit me and broke my arm. I had three surgeries for it and was in a cast or splint 4 1/2 months.

My H does not seem to me to be all that committed to our M, but he sure is committed to not being abusive. It is tough, though. He is going to anger management weekly to a guy in the Twin Cities (if you live in MN, I can tell you who) who has a program that is successful. Most are not. Most shelters will tell you give up on the guy now. Anyway, it really disturbs me what my H tells me. Several weeks ago, he told me that one guy said his father used to come home and say to his mother, "What the h..ll have you been doing all day?" All the guys laughed. My H said, "Those were the exact words my father used with my mother." It was SOOO different when I was growing up. I remember my father coming home and tenderly kissing my mother, every night. I have met twice with the abuse counselor and one thing he told me was that MC should not start until all abuse has stopped.

The model that this anger management guy is using is one of mutual support. Abusers tend to blame their spouses because they are unwilling to look at themselves. They need to be able to share their own stories of success and failure with others who will not be horrified at what they say. Two weeks ago, one guy came in, said that he had attacked his 14 year old son for lipping off at his wife, the wife called the police, and now he cannot see anyone until a court hearing in January for a legal separation. The guys going through facing their own problems of control and abuse need to support each other and give ideas for dealing with things. Good luck.

One other thing -- almost all of the guys in his group have been in jail (he would have been if I had called the police) and nearly all have problems with drugs or drinking (90%?). They tend to go together. Sometimes a guy who gives up drinking doesn't abuse anymore.

By the way, I never saw my H's temper until our wedding night. I lived with hitting, shoving, choking, spanking.... and even took the blame for a broken arm. It was the affair that I wouldn't take the blame for. It is not always so clear who is responsible for a broken bone in a domestic dispute (at least to the parties involved). A good step is to recognize it is the fault of the person who hit. NOTHING you did could have justified a broken bone.

Stronger,

Do you mind providing the name of this person who is very good. My BIL is verbally abusive to my sister. Do, they deal with this sort of abuse? We have told her that his behavior is unacceptable. For some reason, she sees nothing wrong with it. She even tried telling us that Dad was abusive to mom. (She is the only one with this memory and I am one of the older kids of 8.) My memorys of my dad are of a man who loved our mom and showed it. More so in the later years than early years. (but then again, I may not have noticed during the early years). My mom is not the sort who would have stood for abuse.

This is not something that went on after we left the home. There were some of my sisters that did not leave the home. I think my BIL convinced my sister that this went on. My sister is weaker in mind than the rest of us. My BIL tried telling my my brother was kicked out of the army because he was gay, and that is why he did not return home right away. My dad would not allow it. This "gay" man recently married. Also, why would my BIL know this and not the rest of the family. My mom would not have allowed my father to treat my brother that way, and my father would not have treated him that way. If it was true, my father would have had a hard time at first, but would have adjusted. My father did not have a temper. I mean this man was so laid back, that as a teen, I told him to "F Off". He looked at me with total disgust and walked away. Did not talk to me for a week. (I wonder why).

So, at this point, all we can do is wait. When the time comes, I would like a good referral for my sister and her H. (I don't think she will every leave him. She thinks she cannot get any one else). Any improvements my sister makes in herself, BIL takes credit for. (what an idiot) Sorry, had to vent that. We watch over their kids closely. BIL is very anal. Right down to the names of the kids. He says they have to be called by their given names, no nicknames. I told him, if they choose to go by nicknames later in life, you will have to accept it.

His whole family is weird. You tell him one minor innocent thing and he totally changes it. He once called the place my neice takes dance and cancelled her dance classes to punish my sister. My sister called and rescheduled the classes. This gives me hope that she has some backbone. As I said, if I can be prepared with some names for her, when the timing is right, that would be great.

Take care

This guy's program is for men who have done something physically violent. Most have spent time in jail. I don't think anyone else would be allowed because it is very difficult for the guys to talk about what they have done, and if someone in there is "only" verbally abusive, that might be difficult. Personally, I think the broken arm was about 20 times less painful than the affair.

It sounds like your sister could use a counselor so that she doesn't tolerate the verbally abusive behavior that is given. If she goes down that path, she could end up divorced. It has had to get really bad for me to get to that point. I went back to the original counselor who wanted me to cordially ignore him and his talk about Sophia and how he couldn't hang up on her. I'm not sure we're allowed to pass on names of counselors. Let's see. I got her name from the Archdiocesan Office of Family Life, and her initials are CM. CM is the one who referred my H to the anger management guy, and his initials are RP. I bet you could figure it out in the Twin Cities directory. I hope this helps. If your sister is not willing to look into counseling, you might suggest these books: The Solo Spouse and The Verbally Abusive Relationship. If you need more info, add to this thread, and maybe we can figure something out. Thanks.

InLove - for your husband to verbally abuse you and shove you is unacceptable. There is no way that a man should put his hands on his wife in a pushing, manipulative manner. I was pulled and dragged by my husband which resulted in a torn rotator cuff. I had surgery end of October, and still in physical therapy. Surgery the Dr. found 3 tears, and 1 tear needed to be stitched.

The program they are talking about is anger management. I was told that my husband needs to go, but I don't think he will. We are by the way divorcing. He doesn't take responsibility for his actions, and that is one sign that they are in denial. They put the blame on you, if only you had done this or that. We are not to blame for them treating us in a disrespectful manner, for hurting us to the point of having surgery to fix what they did to us.

The program is something called the 12 step management program. This is for those that have not been in jail. I would like the name of the guy you know, and to find something out here. My husband still gets all uptight when things don't go his way, or he is shown that he is in the wrong. Part of the control issues, and part of the manipulation that they use to get their way.

Do not have your husband come home right away. Have him stay in a hotel for a couple of months, they have hotel rates for months, or stay with a friend, or family. You need to know that he is getting counseling, for himself, and the two of you need to have counseling for a couple. But to have a couple counseling, he needs individual counseling too.

I am in need of individual counseling. And that is where I am at right now. With your husbands actions, your self-esteem gets low, and you are a good person, a loving woman, and you need to know that a man does not treat the one he supposedly loves in this manner.

Your marriage is so young, so I would be cautious, and see what happens. Maybe he has some psychological issues to deal with. Better to know now, before you have kids. Hoping that you have no kids, therefore, you can start a clean slate. This is not a way to start a marriage.

Hi Confused,

You do have a dilemna "in your hands," one that needs to be studied very carefully.

I would not disagree with you giving a second chance BUT with some very strict guidelines!!!

I agree with others here in that he requires some sort of counseling - specifically Anger Management. I would suggest finding where Anger Managment "peer groups" are conducted in your area. The best place to find them is by contacting your local family violence court and ask where the court requires offenders to go - maybe the court has already required this of him as condition for his release. I hope so! Anyway, he must attend these meetings! It can be arranged that you are able to contact the group leader for regular progress reports (with or without his knowledge) and I would suggest doing so. 2) He MUST remain abstinent from alcohol. Drinking impares our ability for judgement / self-control (the first thing impaired by alcohol). Temper and alcohol are and can be lethal!

If he is serious about his endeavors, I think you will see a very gradual change. You will be on the "front lines" so close monitoring is essential. Behavioral change is extremely difficult and to be successful, it is a battle that we must burden almost every minute of every day. But it can work if HE IS WILLING to accept help.

I was in a very similar situation with my W. Many of my previous actions with alcohol and verbal abusiveness pushed her to the arms of someone else. The wrong choice for her, but still, it happened. It was during my brief stay "with the county" that I realized I was "at the bottom" and that I was loosing everything that meant something to me - Family & Marriage! I sought immediate help and counseling with alcohol, anger, marriage and individual counseling. At one time I was going to five different counseling sessions - the anger management peer group in my opinion, was by far the best. I still attend regularly. The group is excellent, as it gives the opportunity for him to see (if his eyes are open) there are others out there battling anger many in far worse situations (like AA there's always someone worse off). I've seen our group "break down" the seemingly unbreakable - but I caution, I've also seen one member go on to commit murder of his spouse. In the murder scenario, this guy was "almost" banished by the group. We saw him from day 1 as a MAJOR risk not only to himself, but to others and the group itself. He eventually "dropped out" against court order, and the rest is a sad history. This is my point of why you have to remain in contact with the group leader, so you can "test" his progress and his participation. I've seen the group help as many as those that have "denied" it's existence. As with an alcoholic, you must want the help to benefit from anything.

I hate to bring this up but, if you decide to give "that second chance," you also MUST have a plan. Mainly ZERO TOLERANCE!!! In the event there is even a slight occurence, you MUST have an exit plan for your own saftey!!!! That could be a "secret" alternate place to go in the event he "comes at you," to hidden clothes, cash, cell phone, etc..

You are in a very "hard" predicament but each scenario is different. Only you can weigh the real benefits and the risks. I know my W gave me a second chance and I am forever grateful, but at the same time, we are living with the effects of poor choices by both of us in the past. But the real positive is that our M for the first time in 18 years is that of a "true" M, albeit it in a rebuilding stage. I'd much rather be in the M I am today then have continued in the life I had...

I wish you and your H the best and can only hope you benefit. Keep coming back and posting - It does help...

MITT

<small>[ January 03, 2003, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: MakingItThruThis ]</small>

InLove --
I would agree with MITT that this is very serious business. It doesn't matter how much you are in love and willing to forgive. HE has a problem, and that problem is dangerous for you. I kept on forgiving my H and he kept on blaming me even after he broke my arm. It wasn't until the A came to light that I realized HE was responsible for HIS actions and he can't hide behind I'm a terrible wife. It doesn't matter what you do. You cannot tolerate physical injury. An A is pretty intolerable too! I was able to convince myself that I was at least partly to blame for the abuse, but there was no way I was responsible for his getting in a car with another woman, going to a park, and ....

I met with my H's anger management counselor at the very beginning. There were three times that mh H could have killed me -- killed me. It would have been unintentional but I would have been dead anyway. I just didn't realize that choking and pushing on my skull (5 years ago today, and I still have a Frankenstein head covered with bangs) can easily lead to death.

Our priest has been very much of the mind that I need to forgive him and move on. (It was very enlightening to me to see his face when he saw my arm all bandaged up -- he hadn't known that the broken arm required 3 surgeries, one of which was earlier this month.) I have an appreciation for why the Catholic Church is in such hot water. Forgiveness and love does not mean tolerating the intolerable. Those who are vulnerable (and that means you!) need to be protected. Consider what the Catholic Church did in forgiving molesters and reassigning them. Bring children into the world, and you are exposing them to something that will mar them for life. He needs to be highly motivated to control his anger, if you have any change of avoiding what I have endured.

Two nights ago, our son (age 6) pushed our daughter (age 3) and my H went storming into the room, towered over our son, and yelled, "What is wrong with you?" I cried, you can believe that. I never would have brought children in to the world had I known they would be exposed to that. My H is highly motivated and is going to anger managmeent weekly. I hope it is enough. I must look at my own abusive behavior as well, which is why I am willing to try to reconcile with him. I have been just furious at him, not about the broken arm, but about the affair. I need to stop. If he wants Sophia, fine. He can have her. I need to move on and try to do my best by my children.