Well, this may seem like crumbs to a lot of you, but for anyone familiar with my situation, it's actually a pretty positive little thing...

I was gone from NYE through most of New Years Day. Spent time at a friend's place, went to a party, etc.

My W has only called the house once before since she moved out almost 2 months ago, and that was just because she needed something. This call came in around 6:00 PM on NYE.

I was about to walk out the door when the phone rang and I saw her on the caller ID. I must say I was a bit surprised at myself, because I didn't have an urge to answer the phone. I figured I'd let the machine get it. I've been way too available lately, doing most of the pursuing and always quick to respond to her. Since a few days before Christmas, I've "gone dark" and been doing my own thing, working on myself and having fun. Haven't emailed her or called or anything. I wonder if backing off a bit has stirred her curiosity?

I almost expected she'd hang right up when she got the machine, but instead she left a message. She sounded very quiet and almost a bit sad that I wasn't home. She said she wanted to call and see if I had a good Christmas, and to wish my a Happy New Year. She also wanted me to know that she ordered a blanket for me through her work that I had wanted and that it would be delivered to the house directly. She then said that she would "probably" call me later in the week and ended with "talk to you later".

It seemed to be a purely social call. Of course, she may have called to ask about Dv papers or something, that is not something you talk about on a machine I guess, so I won't get my hopes up. Still, I was a bit taken aback and surprised at the call. It sounded like she just wanted to call and talk and see how I was doing.

I expect she spent NYE with OM, I have no way of knowing for sure, but who knows, he could be starting to LB or something too.

Anyway, I got home pretty late last night but figure I should probably just stick with what I've been doing. She said she'd call me back so I suppose I can just wait for that, I have no problem with it unless you folks think it would be bad to NOT return her call or shoot her off an email or something. Maybe staying in NC for a while longer with her will continue to do whatever it's been doing so far?

Happy New Year, everyone!

ALS

I say keep up with NC for now. Let her initiate any contact and planA if/when she does. I agree that her eyes are opening a little, just don't get caught up in games she may play. She could be jerking your chain to make sure your still waiting and not thinking about leaving yet. just my VHO.

als - I agree with moving4ward, but don't isolate yourself. If you have a good reason to contact her, do it. If, for example, you answer the phone without looking at the caller ID first and it's her, put on your best Plan A communication.

I think you have the right perspective with this "crumb." It may be just that.

Stories abound here about fog clearing in fits and starts. Not to dash your hopes, the one "clearing" instance I witnessed with my XW went like this:

Her: I've been bad, I've lied to you too much, and I'm gonna end this sordid situation right now. Maybe we don't need a separation after all.

Me: (Shocked!!) I am so very glad to hear that. Let's put our family back together!!

Well, in a couple of hours it's like I had imagined this in a dream. No further clearing ever took place, to the best of my knowledge.

Keep doing what you're doing.

WAT

ALS ... you are correct. This is a crumb, a nugget, a morsel. Tasty, nonetheless. Keep up what you're doing because it's worked. I agree with WAT ... you're probably going to see "progress" in fits and starts. Just learn to accept the things she does and says for what they are. Good things are still good things, but never more than that. Bad things are still bad things, but never less than that.

Glad you had an awesome holiday season.

ALS,
First let me apologize to you, it was insensitive of me to post in such an emotionless way. Whipit is right a crumb, but, no less tasty by any means i'm sure.

Sometimes I forget why we're here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Moving4ward,

Thanks for your response and seriously, no offense taken at all. You are actually right, that is something I considered. She may have been checking on me genuinely, or her reasons may have been selfish in nature. I can't get super excited about something so minor. But at least it was positive as opposed to all the negatives I've been getting in the past.

WAT & Whippit -

Great to see you both, happy new year! I was happy to have the crumb, it was a nice New Years present before I went out. Like I said above, it's cool that she at least called and didn't do anything negative. It was just nice to hear her voice.

I consulted with my coach Cerri, my sage, and she suggested I drop my W a quick email just saying I got her call, telling her I had a great holiday, asking about hers, and thanking her for ordering me the blanket. So I did just that. Very short and friendly. Now it's back into the shadows. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I'm gonna keep on keepin' on.

ALS

(Copied from over at EN for consistency...)

Wow. What just happened!?!?!?

Alright guys, this is pretty frickin unreal here. I can't really say for sure what's going on...Stuff is starting to pick up FAST and I have no idea what caused it...Or if it's a false alarm.

I just got off like a hour and half long call with my W! She called tonight and we just talked and talked and talked, about everything...Christmas, New Years, what we've been up to, etc...

She carefully told me what she'd been doing outside of work, never ONCE bringing up OM, always seeming to substitute friends from work or "a girl from work" when she says she went to a bar, etc. Sounds like she's been at a LOT of bars lately. Funny, when we were together she never wanted to hit the bars.

Again, I'm not getting my hopes up, I mean, she could be just out of the fog temporarily, or even worse, trying to get me into "friend mode" in the hopes we can still hang out while she sees OM, which isn't something I would do unless I thought it would eventually help the A to end, which is possible I guess. Then again, an hour and a half is a pretty long phone call for just a friendly thing, wouldn't you say?

Some random topics from the call:

Getting together: She talked about places she missed going, all places we used to go to eat and hang out -- I told her anytime she'd like to go, to let me know. The invite is open. Dinner, coffee, even just to come over and watch TV (she can't afford cable yet). She also asked about movies and wanting to see one -- I again invited her to the movies, told her anytime she'd like, I'd love to go with her. She stopped short of accepting any plans to get together though, and I didn't push.

The cat: We talked a lot about the cat, I cat I bought for her last year that's living with her now. She told me stories about what the cat's been up to. We laughed a lot (at this and other things). A very light-hearted conversation for the most part.

R talk: R talk came up even though I wasn't wanting it to. She asked me about the books I've been reading. I didn't get into too much detail but did tell her about the one I've really been liking "What Women Want Men To Know" (figured it's less offensive than "SAA" or something). She then said "Oh really, what DO women want men to know?" She asked a lot about the book's contents, so I told her a little bit about what I was reading and learning. She and I got into R talk a little bit then, she citing things she said during our relationship that are in that book, signs I ignored, etc. I told her that I messed up a lot and didn't handle things well. She said that it is great to see that I am learning so much. She also said that she is "at least 50% responsible" for what happened with us and that she wished I'd have been reading those books 6 months ago. That we were just communicating poorly. She said she was sorry that she shut me out, and then just generally said she was sorry. I told her I wasn't really looking for an apology right now (I heard "I'm sorry" 50 times after D-Day) but she just said for what it's worth, she wanted to say it.

She also accused me jokingly "Oh, so are you going to use this book for lines to try and pick me up?" -- I told her no, it wasn't a book on picking up women, it was just a very educational, enlightening thing. She seemed genuinely impressed that I was learning so much. I really am, too. I know I'm not supposed to point that out to her so directly but I think in this case it was a positive. I tried to back off that topic as quickly as I could, so R talk didn't go on for more than 10 minutes max I'd say.

General stuff: I noticed her calling me "honey" and "sweetie" a couple times, whether that was conscious or not, it was nice to hear even if she didn't realize she was doing it.

Her place: Sounds like she got a lot of stuff for Christmas for her place. Glasses, an iron, a TV, electronic equipment, etc...So I assume she plans to stay quite a while longer. She is looking to buy a couch now, and just bought a table. I was careful to not tell her I want her to come home, or to push any of those issues, I think she knows she can come back, she even referenced "coming back to me" once or twice in passing but not in any serious way. So there's no need for me to push that, I don't think.

But maybe I'm making that step towards friendship, being her friend again, someone she can trust, talk to, etc...I still worry about OM not being mentioned. I know she is seeing him, or at least WAS, though suspect A is ongoing. She never once admitted she was dating him after moving out, in fact, claimed she spent NYE ALONE at home, which is possible but VERY unlikely.

Is she doing that to protect me or because she thinks it will be easier for us to reconcile if I don't know all that went on? At some point, I'm not sure when, if we are going to start recovery, I'm really going to need to know a way to tell her I need her to come clean about OM. Maybe she is afraid that admitting to full-blown PA will make me never want her again. I'm not sure how to convey that to her though.

So, after that LONG phone call, the ball is probably in my court. I know I probably should have cut the call short but everything was flowing so well, it was just like when we started dating again. It truly was. A few awkward silences but not many. We both talked equally this time I think, as opposed to the very one-sided convos I've had with her in the past. I think I'll drop her an email, maybe in a few days, or after the blanket comes next week to thank her.

At the end of the call, she DID say she'd call me again or email me sometime. I think in a way she would prefer calling me anyway, as if she IS still seeing OM (which I suspect), she wouldn't want me calling when he's over at her place.

So, I wonder why the sudden burst of interest in talking to me? I really can't say. Could be OM is LBing, could be she just is feeling more open to me, I'm not sure. Either way, wow, what a surprising development.

Now I'm not sure what to do. Whew.

ALS

heh heh heh

Right on, brutha. Remember that it is what it is. (But it felt good, didn't it?) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

You're right, Whippit, it felt good but it was just a phone call. I'm gonna stick with what I've been doing and go from there.

It's funny, I do still want my M to work, but when things like this happen I still get butterflies, because I think a big part of me worries about how hard recovery will be. My W is still not being honest with me about a lot of things, and we still have the issue of OM being a co-worker and she really loves her job.

But I suppose we'll take that stuff as it comes, if given the opportunity. I think the biggest thing I took out of that 2 hour call last night was the fact we didn't talk Dv ONCE. I figured for sure she may have been calling to bring that up and it NEVER came up. Not to say it still won't again, but considering she seemed to want to get papers started before the holidays, suddenly now they are just forgotten, perhaps that's a good sign as well.

ALS

Excellent, excellent, excellent job!!!!!!!!!!

A model Plan A report.

Keep doing what you're doing. Be yourself. Don't try to manipulate or play games.

Perhaps send her an e-mail saying you enjoyed the conversation and hope to have more. Short and sweet. No pressure, no questions.

Yes, this could be fog clearing or it could be manipulation on her part. Hope for the best, but expect less.

Good luck!

WAT

Thanks, WAT. I will definitely send her an email, but will do so early next week or perhaps tomorrow since I know she'll be at work.

If it's manipulation, I'm not really sure what she is looking for the final outcome to be -- I guess what I'm most afraid of is that she wants to be a cake eater and continue to see OM but keep me on the hook as well, or, if she is thinking that we can continue to be best friends even after a Dv with her still seeing OM.

I'm all for the friends thing, don't get me wrong, I realize it's necessary for recovery to start in a lot of cases, I'm just not sure how long I can handle being a friend to her knowing she'll be running back into OM's arms later in the day or whatever.

But, considering I never did a really solid Plan A after D-Day, and just chased her out of the house and into OM's arms, I suppose this may be my chance to finally make up for my behavior after that day as well.

I'll likely slip back into the shadows for the weekend as far as communication with her is concerned, but will definitely email her early on next week.

Thanks WAT!

ALS

ALS,

WOW or HOLY COW whatever fits for you. This is a very good sign. You are right to let her continue to call you at this point. I disagree that the ball is in your court. It's in her court very much. You can't steal the ball from her. All those things she said about places she missed going to with you was great. The joking and laughing is good. Your doing a great job. See what happens when you let life take its course for a bit. Try not to think of OM right now. She didn't bring him up so take that for what it is. I wouldn't push for info on that. If you get the blanket then I would just email her a thank you note and be done with it. If she calls all you can do is Plan A. Not acting needy or weak. You're not at this point so why change. All you can do is put the opportunities in front of her and see what happens. That whole thing about the books you are reading and how she was interested is huge. My wife still doesn't really ask about it with me. Give her a taste but not all the info. Leave her wanting more from you. Dish it out piece by piece. If she wants to do something with you then do it because you want to but have no expectations as to how the "date" will transpire. You mentioned being friends may be a motive for her. Possibly but doesn't love follow friendship? Thats how everything started with you two to begin with anyway. Your doing a great job. Better than me when my wife was out of the house I'd say. Keep up that fantastic work and see what happens tomorrow. She will call again. Of that I have no doubt. Let her keep the pace as best you can. No pressure and no expectations. Good luck. You have come a long way.

Seems your crumb turned out to be a philly steak&cheese huh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wat and the others are right your doin fine just remember to take it slow.

ALS

So glad to hear from you. We were wondering how you were getting along. I think your wife misses you and perhaps the reality of her new life doesn't look so rosy, but who knows.

Your detachment probably woke her up a bit and lifted some of that insidious fog. Just speculating. Have a nice weekend.

Hey, thanks you guys. Really appreciate that.

I'm basically backing down again, whatever I'm doing seems to be working, and I decided that I'll let her take the initiative. It's funny though, just as my attitude started to change, and I detached more and started doing more of my own thing, things started to pick up. It's as if the WW's have a sixth sense to detect it or something.

So, today I just sent her a very short email saying I enjoyed talking to her and thanking her for the call. That will be the extent of my contact back for a while now. Cerri recommended a quick email just so she knows that I appreciated her call. I thought that was a good idea.

My opinion is that I'll hear back from her the next time she's feeling lonely, or if OM isn't around. I don't think she's out of that fog enough yet to want to get together, and she knows I have friends over at the house all weekend, so I don't expect she'll try and call.

But that's okay, my "philly steak and cheese" will keep me satisfied for quite some time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

As for the books, I didn't get too into them with her, though she was very interested when I told her the one book had things regarding SF (the top 20 things women love and the top 10 they hate as far as sex goes). She was asking me to read to her off the list -- I told her there were quite a few areas for improvement that I realized after I read that list, so I guess that piqued her interest. If she wants to talk about the books more, I'd love to tell her, but like you said Mark, in small doses!

Oh, and Mark, thanks for the HOLY COW. I know that's a big one for you, though the real HOLY COW is that your WW moved back home I'd say! That's where I really need to be someday.

It's so much easier to work on your patience when things actually go right for a change!

I'll keep you all posted, perhaps we'll have another phone call next week, or perhaps it will take a downturn as well. I'll keep my expectations low, and my hopes high.

ALS

ALS-

I just wanted to drop you a note and say how happy I was to hear the good news! It sounds like things are slowly starting to turn around for you two.

Congratulations and take it slow!

STTSI

ALS, extatic to hear things have taken an appearant turn for the better. Sounds like you did a textbook Plan A over the phone. Hats off to you. Sounds much better than I ever did. Oy, I could tell some Plan A horror stories. Just remember take it at face value and try not to look too far ahead into things (not easy, I know). Best wishes pal.

MTD

ALS,

I'll keep my expectations low, and my hopes high.

Now your talking. Great job. Have a great time with your friends and that Philly Cheese Steak!!!! I'll be thinking of you while I'm snowblowing the 15" of snow tomorrow morning.

You're all the best support group a guy could ever hope for. Thank you!

I'm not at all expecting it to happen at this point, but if we do get back together I think it'll be proof that any M can be saved, regardless of how dire it sounds sometimes. Heheh. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Madly: Not looking at all too far ahead, I'm doing my best to live in the present and just be happy for what I have, and mostly for the fact that, in the face of the A and everything else, I am actually finally getting Plan A correct. Whether it works or not, I will know I did the best for ME, and that is incredibly important.

By the way, mostly ice here. I think I'd rather have the snow!

Better get to bed, friends will be here early tomorrow afternoon for football and drinks!

I'll check in later. Have a good weekend, all.

ALS