Will try to keep this short--
I have communicated to H that no progress can occur with us as long as he is still in contact with OW. I believe that they are just friends now, but IMO it's not appropriate for him to be in contact with her after everything that's gone on. He sees this as me trying to control him, telling him who he can and can't be friends with, even though I was careful about how I stated it.

My question is, what really helped you (or your FWS) make the decision to do NC?

Dear Lost:
I see your DDAY was 4 days after mine. Your H said the EXACT same things mine did. "Is that what type of friend you want me to be?"

I told him I was not working on M with him until there was a letter written (take my advice and make him show you the letter - I regret not seeing it). That afternoon he emailed her. This was 2 days after dday. I tried to do it NICELY without demanding it but after 2 days, I just set the boundary. I told him "You cannot be her friend".

Recovery is going nicely, thanks!!! Good luck.
DB

lost,
You aren't being controlling, your H is being incredibly selfish.

Tough to put that in non-lovebusting terms!

He is putting his friendship with her above his recovery efforts with you. He threw away his control over who he has a right to have as a friend as soon as he crossed the line with her.

If they stay "friends" the likelihood the affair will resume (or, even more likely, never ended) is sky-high.

It isn't just your opinion that it is inappropriate, it is also Dr. Harley's...and any of us who have been in this position and lived through more than one D-day.

Quite honestly, it would benefit you to get into counseling...a pro-marriage counselor would tell him the same thing and then it wouldn't be YOU controlling him.

If your H won't go to counseling, that along with the fact that he won't stop contact, indicates this will be a long road for you.

I see you are in Plan A. One of Plan A's uses is definitely for when the A, or contact, is ongoing. So, I would suggest you continue Plan A up to the point where it has been 6 months, where you have made the changes in yourself that you wish to and have made the effort to meet his needs, and encourage his honesty.

In that amount of time either,1) he'll end the OW relationship himself, or, 2) it won't end, you can decide to continue Plan A or move to B.

You can insist he not see the OW, but if you make an ultimatim, be sure it is one you are willing to follow through with.

lost:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My question is, what really helped your FWS make the decision to do NC? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The fact that she became pregnant by him, and the affair started it's death spiral. When he threatened to try to obtain physical custody of this yet-to-be-born child, that pretty much ensured "no contact" and the end of the affair.

You'll note that in the above, there's no mention of anything I did or did not do. No contact is a decision that the WS has to make. You can ask them (not demand) to do it, and give the reasons that you feel it will be better. You can provide a loving and non-LB'ing environment so that they feel safe in the marriage, even if they HAVEN'T decided to make the NC decision. But in the end, you need to coax them to this, or the OP has to drive them to it. It has to be their decision, or it's highly likely that it will be a temporary one.

I did Plan A for a year and the contact continued. It was the worst year of my life! I LB at times, but did an overall good Plan A. It wasn't until my FWH felt the shift in my energy and the possibility of Plan B lingering and admitted to the pain he had caused me that he finally sent the NC letters. I really thought we would be seperated and that this would not end. It took him two months to send the NC letters. Those two months, he continued to make "just friends" contact. That didn't work for me. It was no different than continuing the affair because it continued the pain for me and there was not openness and honesty. Hang in there in Plan A for as long as you feel that you can. NC will not happen on your terms - I hated that! Keep coming here for support.....this is a rough ride.

Good luck and God Bless!

And as to what Lor said, I completely support marriage counseling with someone who will gain their trust and lead them to this decision. Steve Harley is a pro at this (888-639-1639 for appts). Having said that, my wife talked with Steve a few times, and it was several months after that time that the affair ended. Some people take a little longer to let that sink in. However, it's much better to have a third party involved in the marital "education" process---you don't want to assume that job for yourself.

You have every right to say to him, "You can do whatever you like, but you will not have both of us. I did not get married to share my husband either physically or emotionally. If you want her, then I will be gone from your life until you change your mind. It is far too painful for me to do anything else."

Then stick to it. If you let him have both of you, he will keep that up forever. You are the only one who can put a stop to it, even if it's only by removing yourself from this unholy threesome.

According to the Harleys, he has to make a decision of either you or the OP. There is no friendship, the contact will trigger responses that he had with this OP. Therefore, the no contact must be instilled. As far as sending a letter, we did, but my husband called the OW to tell her it was being sent, and she could destroy it or whatever with it. The sending of the letter, I was believing my husband, and it was of no importance.

To counsel, there has to be no contact either. This OP has to be out of their lives forever. Until they realize that, moving ahead is not to be.

As far as my husbands, OW, she quit talking to my husband, after she used him, used our money, cause she was too poor to pay any bills, and this was her 2nd sexual affair.

To have no contact is not a love buster. It is honesty, and if it is not to be put forth, you know where you stand, in the background, and nothing else. That is what happened to me, my husband had her to talk to, had her to butter him up, had her to talk about anything, had her to talk about the sex he had, but with me, he yelled, called me names, was mean spirited and didn't care. You have to realize you are not first in his mind, you have been taken over by the OP.

So no contact, if it is considered a love busting act, let them think that. You know what you have to do. It is the only honest way, of getting anywhere. Wish I had known that at the time, but I failed, and it was a ugly, hard road. Also, if he is still in contact, you need to do plan B, get him out of the house, and let him see what he is losing.

Thank you all for the responses.
He surprised me again--said he would stop all contact with OW and he really wants to work things out in our marriage. However, he threw a fit after I was on the phone with exh for like 10-15 min. discussing my 2 d's and my former sd (I guess you'd say) who is now 16 and a mother of a newborn. Now he is trying to compare me talking to exh about kids with him talking to OW. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Am beginning to feel like I'm in a fog--have gotten to the point where I don't know what I want anymore. Well, I know what I want, I just don't know if he can provide it now.

Well...at least he agreed at one point. Even if he's resenting being put in that position. And they do resent it. He put himself into it!!! NOT YOU! And it's very trite that he's equating your need to deal with an ex-spouse about parenting to his dealing with an ex-lover where there is no children.

How did I do it? I didn't. OK...so I did. But it worked out because of other factors that she showed back up in his life in his office building. But by the time she did...he was doing everything he could to avoid her and was fantastic about telling me each time she cornered him or tried to contact him.

But before she changed jobs and ended up in his building...I did ask for NC. No letter sent (hadn't even heard of MB then), but during a phone call he told her they would be unable to continue any type of friendship. Basically, he knew that it was an either/or situation. If she was going to be in his life...I wasn't. The choice was his.

It wasn't that he couldn't have her for a friend...he just couldn't have me for a wife if he wanted the friendship. No ifs, ands, or buts. That was my boundary...and it wasn't going to move.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It wasn't that he couldn't have her for a friend...he just couldn't have me for a wife if he wanted the friendship. No ifs, ands, or buts. That was my boundary...and it wasn't going to move.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's exactly where we're stuck now. He sees that as threatening and controlling. I told him that I'm sorry he feels that way, but it's totally wrong and inconsiderate of him to keep her in our life (and as long as she's in his life, she's in mine) knowing how it makes me feel. At one point in the argument we had last night, he told me to just get over it. I swear sometimes this man does not have a clue. Anyway, in between arguing, we did get some actual talking done. He said he really wants to work things out, and he even wants me to show him some things on this site, things that would help us communicate and get past this. So I guess things are going pretty good overall.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I had this image of your H saying "get over it" You saying "no, YOU get over it".

Maybe it was deja vu instead, since you don't describe that.

Read up on the MB 4 rules of successful marriage, especially the Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA) where the spouses engage in no activities that the other spouse does not ENTHUSIASTICALLY support or agree to. Of course reasonable compromise is a part of POJA...but that "enthusiastically" does lend a certain flavor to negociations.

<<<At one point in the argument we had last night, he told me to just get over it. I swear sometimes this man does not have a clue.>>>

You're right. He doesn't. And he doesn't want to. He's got things exactly the way he wants them -- you at home and his girlfriend on the side -- and he's not about to change a thing. He sees no reason why he should. He will dig in his heels and fight you to the death on this one. I know. I've been going through the same thing for almost three years.

<<<Anyway, in between arguing, we did get some actual talking done. He said he really wants to work things out, and he even wants me to show him some things on this site, things that would help us communicate and get past this. So I guess things are going pretty good overall.>>>

Be very, very careful here. I was told the very same things. I thought we were on the right track, too, until I finally realized all he was doing was trying to convince me he wasn't doing anything wrong and I shouldn't worry about it.

He never had any intention of changing anything he was doing. He thought his only problem was how to persuade me that these women wern't going to "replace" me, and that I didn't need to worry about what he did when he was gone since he'd always come home to me at the end of the day.

To him, "regaining trust" meant having things go back to exactly the way they were -- when I asked no questions and he was free to have a separate private relationship with the women he worked with. "Regaining trust" meant that I would trust him 100% and he could go back to doing whatever he wanted with no questions asked.

Yeah, I think they did eventually stop, but only on their own sweet time and after WWIII started at home. And I can't tell you how devastating it was to me to realize that his reassurances did NOT mean "I'm changing my behavior." They just meant, "Don't worry about what I'm doing, I'll still come home to you at the end of the day."

Be very, very careful here. I am still destroyed and raging every time I think of how they must have congratulated themselves on being soooo clever to keep it all from me. To this day, he still tells me I'm overreacting and it just was not THAT big a deal.

Be very, very careful.

Lor--
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I had this image of your H saying "get over it" You saying "no, YOU get over it".
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, I can't remember exactly what I said after a moment of stunned silence, thinking "this man really has lost his freakin mind".

psycho_b--

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> To this day, he still tells me I'm overreacting and it just was not THAT big a deal
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wonder how many WSs really feel this way. Part of me sees this as just cold-hearted, but I think it's more along the lines of if you haven't walked in someone's shoes, you cannot really comprehend how it feels. My H has never been in love with someone and been betrayed the way he did me, so even if he is sympathetic and tries to be understanding, he will never fully understand what he did to me and our marriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Be very, very careful.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am.

LOST- haven't seen u post , hope all is still going some where ( in your favor) And how are u holding up? by the way I think that "GET OVER IT" LINE is in every WS hand book . Got one worse last year when I cinfrontrf OW she said," GET OVER IT " to me tnank god I was on phone or there would be one more murder to add to NYC crime NUMBERS . LOL good luck

Hey 3. Haven't posted lately bc I haven't had anything to post. Things are going absolutely nowhere. We're not really working on things but we're not making any plans for separation or anything. OW quit calling tho (as far as I know anyway). Last time they talked on phone she made a comment about him only talking to her when I'm not home or asleep. I think the child may actually have a clue. Either that or he told her that he admitted everything to me. He told me he didn't say anything to her about it, but that's really no indication whether he did or not.

I hope you're doing well.

Hey - thinking of u wondering how it is going ? or if its going at all .
Are u still living together ? and has bimbo stayed away ? hope so . Well I posted as my life always is ongoing never dule minute . wow just thought of why my H might be in my life to make me feel like a kid on a roller caoster (always sick) LOL only kidding . Be WEll let me here from u .