This is an update for those of you who have been so important in helping me and for others who are interested in learning the effectiveness of MB principles. I am a BELIEVER!

My WS told me this morning that he is sorry for what has put me through and that he realizes that he has been dealing with his sadness and depression over several losses in his life. This is a man who was denying his responsibility in this mess and blaming everything on me. Also he had a plan to move out.

I think it really freaked him out that I did not throw him out or get mad about his AWOL behavior this weekend. I am cautiously optimistic. I think all of this can change once he has CONTACT with the OW. I'm pretty sure that she has been LBing whereas I have not. I think they had some kind of fight but that's not my concern.

My WS agreed to a session with Steve Harley which I will be setting up ASAP before he sinks back into his FOG.

I will keep you posted but this is such a positive change I can't help but be somewhat relieved. He seems like more of himself.

I told him that I love him and want to work on my marriage with him and he was agreeable.

Good Mimi, what has turned him around I wonder-hope it is the Plan A and not LBing as you think. I hope you get somewhere with MC also,keep us posted.your H and mine sound similar but mine is nowhere near taking responsibility yet-still thinks he just fell in love. He won't go to MC either. Sounds like you should keep going and don't get discouraged if he turns around when OW puts her 2c in.

Regards,
Deluded

Mimi,

I am so glad he is starting to come around. But you are right, this could all change quickly when he speaks to the OW. You aren't in recovery yet, but coming to point where recovery can start. Last week you were farther away and you have come a long way in one week! I hope Steve can talk to him SOON before his relief at your reaction wears off.

I know you have been through hell this weekend and you deserve a MAJOR pat on the back for keeping your emotions under control and not taking a baseball bat to his head! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Good girl!

He is hiding out in this office. Even I couldn't get through. Secretary had told me he wasn't there but when I called to leave a message he answered the phone so maybe OW won't get through. This is a sign that he must be ATTEMPTING NO CONTACT. She's probably mad that he didn't move into the condo. He's still at home, making no plans to leave as I can tell.

Even better yet, I was calling to tell him about his appt. with Steve. It's scheduled for tomorrow afternoon and he said that time was fine. I know he'll keep it since there's a no cancellation policy and my WS is a pennypincher. That's a plus for me because I'm pretty sure that was his concern about the separation.

What should be my response to him from now until tomorrow? I feel so anxious for some reason. I feel like he's going try something to throw us back. I guess just keep filling up that LOVE BANK. This just seems too good to be true.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>What should be my response to him from now until tomorrow?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know how to handle this, mimi. You want to recover your marriage and you have to work as a team. Acknowledge it won't be easy and you'll both make mistakes along the way, but compassion and compromise will pull you through.

From a practical standpoint, warn him that Steve tends to get behind schedule as the day goes on. It's likely that for an afternoon appt. that your H will be delayed. If he knows this ahead of time, perhaps the delay will be more tolerable.

WAT

Mimi,

Something very well might happen. You have NO CONTROL over that. But you do have control over yourself and have been doing a great job in that regard!

2 steps forward and 1 step backwards is MUCH BETTER than 5 steps backwards as was happening before. You came through this horrible weekend like a champ and look at the great results you reaped? It is going NORTH now. Maybe not as quickly as you want, but it is progressing positively now instead of negatively. That is wonderful that he has agreed to speak to Harley! Good move!

ditto Mel. I neglected to praise your recent efforts.. Way to go girl!!

But for Mel -
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong>It is going NORTH now.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Where I grew up this was bad! When things are going good, they're heading south, ya'll. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WAT

Update:

As you might have predicted, after being sorrowful Monday morning, my WS acted BANANAS Monday night. He was certainly LOVEBUSTING, making many angry demands. After that he calmed down and wanted to be intimate. What a rollercoaster ride!

Both he and I talked to Steve Harley today. I told Steve about the Monday night craziness and the weekend. He called my WS confused and predicted that he was in a fight with OW about not moving out into the apartment. Steve suspected that the OW is controlling and demanding which fits with WAT's theory. WAT, please explain this to me again. Why would my WS who feels that I took too much control fall for OW like this? The challenge of trying to boss her around?

My WS is not giving up much info about his session with Steve. He did call me immediately afterwards, sounded like he had been crying and said it was "heavy". Tonight he's just being quiet. Steve asked him to fill out EN and Lovebusters Questionnaires and to fax them to him ASAP.

With me , Steve insists that my WS needs to share with me his plan of separation from the OW. He also wants me to work on myself; the PLAN A scenario.I tried to ask him about this again and he looked clueless like he didn't know what a PLAN was.

What do you guys think is going on?

He has not had much contact with the OW since the weekend. Was with me at the gym last night and came straight home from the gym tonight.

I was thinking about writing my WS a letter tonight to ask him to fill me in on his SEPARATION PLAN. As you know, he is refusing to discuss her or the A with me since D-Day.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>Steve suspected that the OW is controlling and demanding which fits with WAT's theory. WAT, please explain this to me again. Why would my WS who feels that I took too much control fall for OW like this? The challenge of trying to boss her around?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, I suspected the opposite - that your WS was able to be in control with OW which was the initial attraction. But as he starts waffling with her (due to your Plan A), she may then try to exert some control. This may explain his favorable response to your Plan A - you're more accommodating now than she is. So, was Steve reacting to his earlier behavior, or more recently? This is only one possible explanation and I may be totally wrong. Stick with Steve's advice.

WAT

I really need direction from my MB friends.

My WS did speak with Steve yesterday. Positively he is filling out the Questionnaires and is allowing me to be affectionate with him without pushing away. He snuggles with me in the bed rather than trying to stay over on his side. That's a big change. Also, he's coming home straight from the gym at night although he could be talking to her on the phone and seeing her during the day.

I think you maybe right WAT that she is beginning to be more controlling and demanding. I think that's what Steve actually meant. That this is her response to my H's not moving into the apartment.

I'm sure that controlling,demanding behavior is a big LB for him and is a real issue for him. I goofed this morning and asked him about rescheduling an appt. for him with Steve. He told me that I was "trying to drive the car"; I've never heard him use that expression before. I wonder if it came from Steve. He said he was not talking to Steve again either today or tomorrow but was going to work on the questionnaires.

My problem is his continued anger and demandingness. I can hardly stand it. He has that caged animal attitude. I feel like he sees us as keeping him from her.

Also Steve says that he has to come up with a Plan of Separation. Although he has chosen to continue to live in the house and sleep with me is that enough for right now. He needs to tell me what he plans to do about her. I did write a letter making that request but I decided against giving it to him since he is working so hard on the questionnaires. Although I'm wondering if the questionnaires are a stalling tactic. If I push him now on THE PLAN , I know he's going to interpret it as controlling, demanding.

He was able to hear me this morning when I requested that he stop talking to me in an angry, demanding fashion. Steve asked me to not accept this and to call him on how fear-provoking his behavior is. My H sort of apologized and stated that is expressing his frustration. He is nitpicking still about everything.

I'm having a bad day. I'm going to schedule for myself with Steve ASAP but meanwhile HELP!!!!

mimi - you're doing very well. Please pat yourself on the back and try, try, to relax a bit. None of this can he hurried along. Everything is in the right direction - just let it happen - don't try to make it happen.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>If I push him now on THE PLAN , I know he's going to interpret it as controlling, demanding.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You've got THAT right!!

Hey, he's filling out the questionaire!! Terrific! I never got my alien that far. Give him time and don't push. OK?

WAT

I'm still on the roller-coaster.

I called him to say I'm sorry for pushing him. He really appreciated that.

Meanwhile, I got a call on my office voicemail to "Ask him if they are going to lunch?" It worked I called and told him about the call. He questioned me in detail about it. Not a good response. Should I have told him about it? It was being honest. Now that I think about it it may have been a plan by her to cause friction between us-so he would say that all this crap is not worth it. I get too anxious!!

Has anything like this happened to anyone else? Is this a tactic used by the OW?

<small>[ January 15, 2003, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Mimi,

Who do you think is calling you? How odd. And yes, it may well be a tactic of the OW to create trouble in your marriage. You just don't have to let that happen. Can you put caller ID on your office phone?

Also, can you call Steve Harley and ask him what he thinks of the situation after talking to your H? I believe he did this for others.

Wow!!, mimi, that's disturbing!

Who else could it have been? But, what would be the reason for OW to do that if it results in you putting your H on the spot which will result in him possibly being PO'd at OW?

Regardless, I think you have to inform your H of these spooky things. Beyond being honest, if it IS OW, it shows her weirder <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> side which can only diminish her stature in your H's eyes.

Yes, there are ample examples of stories here about OP's harassing both the BSs and WSs - especially when the OP senses that they are losing out. So, if this is one of those situations, GOOD!!!

Can you elaborate on what you meant by, "He questioned me in detail about it. Not a good response."?

WAT

It made me think it was the OW because it seems like a man, one of her old boyfriends, would more likely want to call me. A man called me before anonymously, telling me that my suspicions about her were correct. Also, in my affair research, she has been spending a lot of time at a friend's house. Maybe lamenting about losing out. Who knows ?

My WS didn't sound surprised by it although it was strange. Maybe they were planning on having lunch. He asked did the person mention his name and what exactly did they say? It was like he thought that I was making it up. His last response to me before hanging up was "Leave it alone" in kind of a sad voice.

When I think about it, he put me in this silly type mess with people acting so weird and crazy. It really bothers me. You'd think this stuff would help him see how awful this is.

I have a session with Steve tomorrow. Hurrah!

I'm looking forward, though, to learning your thoughts.

Don't ask him to give you his plan of separation. 1) Steve can handle that- pushing your WS to come up with that 2) it could come off as a demand and push him away

He is with you every night and his behavior is improving. Remember REWARD him for improved behavior. Regarding the anger and irritability- could be withdrawal- think of someone who's trying to kick cigarettes- they're not very fun to be around, are they?

About this apartment- has it actually been rented?
by either WS or OW? Did OW sign a lease and WS is leaving her on the hook for it alone? It will be harder for him to break it off if he made some kind of commitment.

Keep up that Plan A. You are doing great! And your WS is talking to Steve! Great!

He has not filled me in on the apartment other than insisting that he has not signed a lease and is not leaving. He is working hard on those questionnaires for Steve and reading HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS. Maybe WS is doing it in his own way.

Good thing: I called his office. Secretaries wouldn't let me through until identified myself as the MRS. This has been going on all week so MB he is withdrawing and not letting me in on it. Maybe that's wishful thinking! Its been such a rollercoaster ride lately.

Steve wanted me to contact him as soon as possible which will be tomorrow. I guess he will inform me of my next move.

About the call, I'm inclined to agree with your H - leave it alone. I think it could very well be a sign of turmoil in the affair. All turmoil in affairs is good. Let them hang themselves!

WAT

His response about the apartment is very good; that he is reiterating that he is not leaving. Also, if he had signed a lease he would have to put down deposits- first month's rent, security etc. surely you would notice withdrawals for that- how could he get the money without you knowing?

Still WS lie through their teeth, take everything with a grain of salt.

I noticed you mentioning on one of the other threads that you took your WS through the finances of separation- EXCELLENT. Those numbers are rarely pretty. I don't call that "education" I just call that looking at reality!

Hmmm I wonder if OW knows that WS can't have kids. Don't most women of her age want kids eventually?

How's it going with your children?

Good luck with Harley tomorrow.