Just found out last night there has been phone contact with 1st OW. He called her on christmas, maybe before that too, I don't know. And when i asked him he said he had talked to her a few days ago. She calls him for advice!!! I don't have to worry about it he says, because he's not involved with her and she is no threat to our relationship. Yet he didn't tell her that we were getting back together, he told her about being with OW2 now. So why should I feel ok about that?Not threatened? This Sh** has been going on for almost 2 yrs, he says he's being honest with me, well obviously he's not! I mean, come on, that's kind of a big thing if he's talking to her again and I don't know it. He also thinks I am on MB too much and letting everyone's opinions sway me, like I don't have a mind of my own. This site just validates the things I feel are wrong and know are wrong and he's too full of pride to admit he's wrong. He says he is changing, well he needs to start acting on it, not just talking about it.

<small>[ January 20, 2003, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: day by day ]</small>

That's the truth! I haven't been here long but insistence on breaking ALL ties to the OP is obviously a basic first step for any reconciliation to start. Sorry for your pain.

There is NO healing as long as contact continues. You're not taking one step onto recovery and he's not only not taking any steps...he's standing in your way blocking you from doing so.

You can't control his actions...only your own. What path do you want to take? The one where you have to attempt to crawl over his body to began moving forward, which will never happen...or possibly one where he isn't involved? He may run after you on that second path or he may not. But it's your choice and under you control as to which path you choose.

Good Luck!

DbD,

I understand your pain. I heard similar words.

When WS tried to blame me for being on MB too much and that the rest of my life suffered as a result, I threw it back on him..... told him that I get on it after chores are either in process or done, son is attended to, work is being addressed or completed (a women's work is never done - rememeber??) and I did not neglect my responsibilities (except to me)......

I came to MB because I needed support, the support that was suppose to come from the H but he was not the H. I told him if he was acting as an H should, I would not have to come to MB for support. That is what I told mine and he shut up.

L.

boy thats got me realy thinking.are we having and affair .is Marraige builders the other person in our lives?your statement of "if you were doing your job as a husband...".wow.isn't that the excuse that the WS uses.have we become the WS now?think about it ,we are here telling complete strangers about our lives.sharing private details,spending time away from the marraige.i admit i usaully only get on here when the wife is at work,not to hid things but so i can spend time with her when she is here.but still.does anyone else feel like this sometimes?

Rob, My H. and I are seperated, that was his decision. If he would spend time with me I would be with him not on the boards. He is the one that has chosen to stray and be involved with other women. He won't try with me, he gives to them because they are "nice" to him. He doesn't give me a chance because he is too caught up in the fantasy of everything being great in the beginning and not dealing with reality. He can see me once in a while, sleep with OW every night if he wants and Go to his apt. when he needs down time. Meanwhile I balance the bills, take care of the house, trash, granddaughter to help our daughter out, and everything else that needs to be done. I don't think people here are having an affair as you put it with MB, they need support as Orchid said, where people understand what we are going thru. All the advice may not be sound but it does make you think and if our WS's would come here maybe they could start to understand. Didn't mean to flame you but I have taken enough crap from my WS and he doesn't think I spend too much time here, he just doesn't like the advice I am getting. He doesn't know day to day what I do and he is really not interested.

I see your point Rob, but I personally don't agree. Some of us don't feel comfortable telling our terrible stories to family and friends, and MB is a great place to vent, and trade opinions/suggestions with others in the same situation. I don't come to MB every day, but when I do, it is a comfort.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ROB.S:
<strong>boy thats got me realy thinking.are we having and affair .is Marraige builders the other person in our lives?your statement of "if you were doing your job as a husband...".wow.isn't that the excuse that the WS uses.have we become the WS now?think about it ,we are here telling complete strangers about our lives.sharing private details,spending time away from the marraige.i admit i usaully only get on here when the wife is at work,not to hid things but so i can spend time with her when she is here.but still.does anyone else feel like this sometimes?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Rob,
I feel as if your comments were addressed to me on this post to DbD. So DbD if you will please allow me to indulge him in a response......

Rob, what I posted is true. Sharing my side of the story is what is done here on these threads. For several reasons.
1. personal help.
2. personal recovery
3. trying to understand the full picture - including real reasons for the A.
4. learning how I and my family can be helped.
5. how I can help others.

Do I regret what I have posted? No. RE: This place has helped me in addition to the support I received from my MC, doctor, health advisor, lawyer, PI, employer, elder support, family, friends, God and the Bible.

If H was being a faithful H, I would never have come to MB.

Now to your question about us having an A with MB? Yes. I was accused of this also. By my WS. Why did he say that? He was in the mode to make me look bad. He admits it (I am not making it up).

While the A was raging, the WS neglected many things. Some of it had impacts that can never be fixed. In the interim, I had no choice but to keep our family afloat and repair what damage I could. With the hopes that I was not causing more damage to myself and family. Was I worried about the damage I was causing to the WS? You bet..... in fact I worried too much about him. Another reason to come here. Get slapped back to reality.

Here I saw how others were being treated and I could easily tell them how to act. But I realized that I needed to do the same because in their eyes, I was in the same boat as them and I was.

Sharing personal stories? Better than the fantasy lines I was being fed or even foolish enough to believe.

Are we becoming the WS? Well we all COULD but it is up to US on what we choose. For me? Yes I easily could have. One of the places that helped me NOT become a WS was here at MB.

FYI. After my H regained his senses, he actually was glad I came here to MB. I could not see my MC that often and calling Steve was quite costly. So I read the books and posted here.

In fact, my H has even spoken to some here at MB. So while I don't share everything I read here with H (he says he isn't that interested anyway), he does see what I do and at times even asks how some are doing.

L.
ps: I shared with him Nikko's story that she wrote on BR's thread (it was funny) and he laughed.

Thanks, DbD.

didn't mean to get everyone all upset over this.i was just wondering if anyone else felt giult about spending time here.a few weeks ago my wife asked me why i post here so much.i didn't respond what i was thinking.my thought was i needed to talk about this and she doesn't so i go where people will talk and listen.later that night i thought about some things she had said around d-day.she needed affection and i wasn't giving it,so she went where it was.out side of marraige.i didn't meet her needs and she truned to others.similar to how she isn't meeting my needs so i turn to others.now granted i'm not sneeeking around and lieing.communitcation is the issue.she knows i need to talk about it.she just wants to forget it.she says she told me everything so theres nothing more to talk about.my guess we all have these problems.agian i wasn't accusing anyone of cheating or saying we shouldn't share our experiences.the more we learn the better we are.i've tryed to get her to atleast read here but she has no interest.
day by day,
sorry to tie up your post.i didn't really see a question you had but i would like to say this.you said that your getting back together,yet husband has OW2 and still in contact with OW1.doesn't sound like he is serious yet.i'm affaid the longer you let him continue the more it will hurt you.it may be time for you to make some decisions about your future.hope this was'nt to harsh.good luck with what you decide to to.

Rob,

DbD is a very gracious lady so I will again respond...... I am not upset at you or anyone. You asked a genuine question and I responded.

No hard feelings ok??? As it is we have hard feelings all around us and trying to put back some humane feelings into our lives can be a bit challenging. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

For me, I personally choose to do this with my H because of the type of personality I was dealing with. In my case it also had to do with the fact that the OW tried very hard to pretend she was sweet and innocent but under that layer was a 'crusty old woman' desparate to get what she didn't get from her H (know we know why!?!?!). Do I feel sorry for the OW? No. In fact, the OW accused the WS of commiting 'emotional adultery' on her when he decided to come back home to his family..... go figure that one!?!?! LOL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

For me it was important for my personal survival that I be supported as much as possible. I knew I was not dealing with those who had a 'full deck' but they both sure pretended like they did and tried hard to make me look like the wacko.
So I choose the 'high road' to survival and am glad I did.

JMHO,
L.

Rob, sorry to be so rash in my reply.. Sometimes I feel attacked by everyone and everything. You are right, it doesn't make sense to me either that he says he wants to come back but is still so involved with OW's. I don't know what has been going on with the 1st one, it was supposed to have ended by her the end of Oct. but now he says he has contacted her and she calls him for advice?? Whatever. Just sick of the lies and pain and starting to get numb. I want someone to care about me for a change, and he is not trying to meet any of my needs at all.

Day to Day, separation? how about just telling him to decide now so you can get on with your life. If you're living apart,it's the same as divorce except you're still being the wife while he is acting single!
Rob, I understand well what you said. Yes, we can get too involved on the computer! I spent two years online in a chrisitan group crisis counseling. Did a lot of good, but I was on here way too much. Husband never complained though. He usually is buried in TV. Which I'm not fond of except for a few shows.
Now, as far as here on Mb,he knows and he does not approve of too much time, posting and reading. He feels it keeps it all alive for me and causes problems, like triggers. That really is not so, but I only give a bit of time here reading in mornings before he awakes.
Right now, he told me to go on for a few before a movie comes on we will watch together. So I do control my time and spend more with him even if it is just sitting by TV!
It has benefited our relationship since I quit being a crisis counselor online. It was my outlet and helping others was a good feeling, But when it becomes all consuming, it's time to step back.
So, as far as coming to MB, I would say use some common sense, and don't let it become all consuming. Do it when spouse is in agreement, do it when the S is busy doing something else and it's not taking time away from the two of you.
Getting good advice on MB is wonderful, but using it and spending it on S is the most important thing we can do.
And be sure the articles aren't triggering anger and pain again. Some can bring it all back again.
Let me say I do appreciate each one who comes here and post. Replies, etc. Everyone is just seeking help and healing.
I believe there are some here who would be justified in kicking the S out and getting it over with. And others who have a very good chance of recovery. There just comes a time when you have to say enough!
My WH came home, said he wanted Marriage and stopped contact. There has been none in over a year. Otherwise, no way would I continue because he has to be repentant and working on this too. I'm not going to do it all alone, or sit waiting on one to have their flings while wasting my life!
If ones S is going from one A to another, you can pretty much give up on them. Because they're telling you by their actions they have no intent on respecting you or loving you as you should be. Separation is no different than divorce. You're living apart, making a go of it, so cut the tie that binds!
LouLou

LadyLou, i have told him to make a decision and he has of sorts. He is saying he will tell OW2 it is ended on Feb. 1st and we are going to get back together. But now I find out there has been some phone contact with the 1st OW so I don't know what is up again. Just when I think things may get back to normal and we can work on our relationship together without any outside parties involved, I get thrown again. So I guess I will have to make some decisions of my own in the next few weeks. I'm not going to be playing these games again, waiting for ever, there is no waiting left for me. I'm tired and can't take any more.

sound to me like hubby is trying to buy time.he'll tell ow2 its over on feb 1st.so if its over why not tell now...today?is feb 1st a decision day ,or what?and is he implieing that you will get back together on feb 1st?once again why wait?did he give a date when he will tell ow 1 its over?sorry dear but your being played.its time for you to put your foot down here.theres a fine line between waiting and be patient and just being used.your husband needs a wake-up call.

Thanks rob, Yeah that's pretty much what everyone here and others have said too. if it's the 1st why not now. He doesn't see the reasoning and that's why he quit posting. He was on here a week ago but didn't care for the advice and thinks I am being swayed by everyone here. Plus now I know he's been talking to OW1 and that was supposed to have been over-final-that's it folks. But to him that is me trying to control him. he also doesn't want me to have access to e-mail or cell bills or anything. Figures he is being "honest" with me and I have nothing to worry about and I should not care about that stuff. But I do and I need reassurance from him, which I am not getting and haven't since this affair started. He wants me to blindly trust him and he should have all the privacy he wants. I guess if he doesn't want to be married he can have that.

i think control is alot of the issue.your husband(like my wife) didn't want anyone telling them how and when to end the A.for the longest time i felt as if i had to end my wifes affair.my therapist told me she ended it.for a long time i didn't see that.i gave her the choices but she made the decisions.thats where you are.its time to give him the choices so he can make the decisions.but you have to stick to your guns.i dont no how many straws you have left in your cup but you have to be getting down to the last one soon,so do something before you run out!ok!
for the trust issue,same here,she got mad if i even guestion anything.i explained to her that she can give me and answer but make sure its an answer that she can back up if needed.and on acasion i did look.
its tough,but now i can look back and tell myself that i an a better person.when push came to shove i was able to stand my ground.i know that i took my vows seriously and didn't give up when the worse hit.
best of luck to you.

Gave dbd my acct nos for the bank, phone, email etc.....

Now I have a question....The 1st OW's H has had
communicaion with dbd ever since dbd found out about the A. This is frustrating for me because I think this violates the no contact rule in itself. DBD says she does not contact him....that he sends her emails....Is this any different? He is going to be naturally biased anyway, has claimed to have moved on with his life, but still interferes with mine. She racked -up a whoppping phone bill as well, though it was long ago when she was trying to find out about the OW. I would like her to give me access to all her accts as well, since this is supposed to be a two way street. Also here is just an example of what
he has sent her in the past, and why I want no contact between dbd and him....
(I substituted names only *...*)

--------------------------------------------------

HI *dbd*
ANything go on over the weekend ?
did she complaine or cry to *needtofixme* that i was with carol overnight again ?
she hardly said anything to me yesterday and she got up early today and went to work ...or something this morning.

she was pissed at me i think because i stayed out over night and was gone most of sunday.

Whats he been doing lately ....f***ing other women ???
I still dont know if she accepted the job, she asked me what to do and i said DONT ask me. so she got mad that i would'nt give her the green light to take the job. I said YOU make the decision and let ME know what you are going to do.....she didnt like that at all. I dont understand that b****.

anyway will talk to you later

ttfn
me
_______________________________________________
and
_______________________________________________
WOW .... now your talking.... f*** him.... he will
learn and so will she.

I think i got her talked out of going this weekend, I
told her i dont really have anyone to watch the kids
and i dont think we can aford the extra expense.

so Unless she changes her mind she will be here this
weekend.
I told her she should take the free apartment and take
that time to look for something.

hang in there, i will keep you posted.
________________________________________________

I know dbd does not actively seek his help, but since he just sent her an email a week ago, I don't see how this can benefit our marriage. DBD thinks when I complain about things that I try to deflect attn from myself. I am sometimes guilty of this, but involving people outside of this forum ...aside from counselors is destructive. They have their own agendas.

These e-mails were sent several months ago from OW's H. He e-mailed me last thurs, out of the blue, and just said that His W. OW1 had gotten a call from my H. on christmas day. Now that I look at cell phone activity I see that he has been in contact with her since Nov. 4th which is only about a week and a half after supposedly breaking it off. so how should I feel? He's saying to me, I am telling you the truth about everything, but he hasn't been, why should he think I should trust him? He does want to deflect things from him and try to blame his problem on me. I'm not having a problem with an ex lover or still lover, he is nad I just don't see it ending. anyone with any advice or any words for either one of us please jump in.

<<<bump>>>> please read H. reply and respond someone. Thanks

Needtofixme...

You have to see the lack of logic in you seeking a two-way street when you continue in such blatant contact with the OW....

And that is not an attack...it is without question reality....

one can not pick a date on the calender which signifies that suddenly daybydays feelings, and pain, and needs have meaning....BUT not until then...AND that until then you will "let the OW down easily"....or whatever your rationalization is...

You demand no contact from your wife...yet continue to deny no contact with your OW

Think long and hard about what your actions speak about you...regardless of daybydays actions...As she needs to be responsible for her own behavior regardless of your actions...so do you...

plain and simple you are hurting your wife dearly...

And you sure are sending some really mixed twisted messages....

Both of you are going to have to let go of a lot of pain and hurt...to make this work...and I am sorry...but continual contact..with dates on the calender that magically make your wife important again....is difficult to understand to say the least....

you said...
"but involving people outside of this forum ...aside from counselors is destructive."
and yet you stay in contact....

You know, read your own post again...see the irony in saying to your wife..do as I ask but not as I say....

You need to let go of the power struggle...see the worth of your soul and Daybydays, get rid of this external fluff baggage you are focusing on...and decide.
1. What type of person you are
2. Have actions that speak of the type of person you are
3. Envision the type of marriage you want with daybyday..filled with truly cherishing one another...and figue out how to get there....we often make life way way harder and more complicated than it has to be...

step up to the plate my friend...no time like the present...
ARK