I am tellin ya...Its as if WW doesn't think I have any ego of my own or dignity.

Isn't the most presumptious thing in the world to have someone else sit, wait, tug on the line to see if your still hooked, break you financially etc...Then say "I don't know if I want you" --Two days after being told we should buy a new house together. And that "H You are the best" I know, I know I am an "enabler."

Am I an enabler or am I just stupid. How do I stop enabling?

The Wayward spouses are those that talk in FOG (mumble jumble), walk in FOG (in circles), can't see through the FOG (one way glass), and their EGO is about them, them, them,

Many of us BS's just wait, watch, get verbally beaten, some physically, and our hearts are torn by these spouses.

You are just a BS, and she is definitely a WS.

Faith-

Is this really the FOG? The A is supposeadly over?

I have asked this question many times on this forum? Can the fog last after the A is over. Isn't the A that causes the fog? The OM moved out of town. Well certainly it still can be going on, but man I just wouldn't think she would want to get caught three times lying.

Actually I do think its over, I guess the fog can still be there because of Other Men (Plural) I know she is getting asked out frequently. IMHO she wouldn't be getting "asked out" if she didn't come off as available.

Well, I guess its the fog. But maybe its not. Maybe its just how she is and I was too blind to see it. Is that possible? What do you think.

How long does this damned fog last after an A?

Is this really the FOG? The A is supposeadly over?

Yes! The fog does not go away overnight.

I have asked this question many times on this forum? Can the fog last after the A is over. Isn't the A that causes the fog? The OM moved out of town. Well certainly it still can be going on, but man I just wouldn't think she would want to get caught three times lying.

Yes the fog lasts after the A is over. Let me put it this way. Before you were married, did you ever break up with someone? Did you still think about them, even after the breakup?

Actually I do think its over, I guess the fog can still be there because of Other Men (Plural) I know she is getting asked out frequently. IMHO she wouldn't be getting "asked out" if she didn't come off as available.

Don't assume that the fog symptoms mean she is getting asked out, or is in another A. On the otherhand, keep your eyes open!
Michael

Hurtin,
As they say after the "A" the WS is in the fog still right? Well look at the "fog" that BS are still in from another level after the "A". Don't you feel that you battle the same emotions as when WS was having the "A"? Maybe just looking at it from that perspective could make it more tolerable? Just because the affair is over does not mean there is not residual fog, correct?

rlyhurtin. We do have egos, pride, self esteem and all the human emotions. Yet, they onl y see themselves as being human.
Mine told me to discuss the A makes him feel terribly angry and a lot of anxiety.
"Oh dear! Excuse me for upsetting you! I guess we're supposed to take broken hearts, pain, loss of self esteem, all the issues that surround us and go off in some corner by our selves"?
Many WS's come here and read. Are we simply giving them an excuse with the fog bit? They can always throw in our faces that it's the fog thing? LOL
NOT! I say most knew exactly what they were and are doing to us. A choice based on self centered ness. And still going as long as they can use the fog theory.
How about a slam up side the head to clear the fog my dear!
Some may have had unmet EN's but many only had a need for multiple sex partners, And they knew when they said "I do" that they were internally saying, " I won't".
Mine admitted it was all a fantasy. But if he still walked around in a fog, he'd better start looking for new headlights cause these will be gone!
I will not take excuses anymore, nor blame or guilt transference. It's wake up time WS's.
Don't assume because your BS has allowed you back in their life, and tried to work it out that you can take them for granted. Some will eventually walk if you walk around crying fog time!
Married 30 yrs. This is his second A, and I can assure you I'm trying to rebuild and restore marriage. But only this time now. Even after 30 yrs, I can still walk away. And will!
Nobody needs repeated pain like this. Don't take your spouse for granted just because you made a wrong choice and they are still there. We can only take so much then we're history to you! Or your history to us!
Lot of fish in the sea out there. WE BS's may just decide we can do better than you!
I'm one who would not have an A, but will divorce and go for it! Somehow,Some WS's seem to think we are not capable of doing it.
Don't push your luck!Count your blessings your spouse has given you another chance and stop the fog excuses! I won't buy it from mine because I know he's too intelligent to not know better and the risk.
LouLou

LadyLou, ryhurtin IS the BS.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by rlyhurtin:
<strong>

Is this really the FOG? The A is supposeadly over?

I have asked this question many times on this forum? Can the fog last after the A is over. Isn't the A that causes the fog?

...

How long does this damned fog last after an A?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In my case, they stopped contact some 4 months ago. Neverhtelss, my wife still shows all the symptoms you mentioned, namely verbally abusing me, focusing on her ego, etc etc. all very draining and getting a bit boring of course. People here call this phase "withdrawal" which may last up to 6 months. Or maybe forever - not there yet.

TMCM--- I know rlyhurtin is the BS. what did I say that would make Rlyhurtin think otherwise? I reread my post and maybe it was comments I was telling I made to my WS?
Rlyhurtin, I'm so sorry if you thought I was taking anything out on you. I guess I need to punctuate better. forgive me if my post hurt you!
I do see I was making some comments toward WS's. but as BS it was how I was approaching it.
I was replying to rlyhurtin that yes, we BS's, rlyhurtin included, do have egos, pride, feelings that our WS's seem to think only they are privileged to.
This comment was one I was making toward my WS!Start----- "Oh dear! Excuse me for upsetting you! I guess we're supposed to take broken hearts, pain, loss of self esteem, all the issues that surround us and go off in some corner by our selves"?
Many WS's come here and read. Are we simply giving them an excuse with the fog bit? They can always throw in our faces that it's the fog thing? LOL---- End of comment to WS.
And most of my post was directed to any WS that might read over on this thread. An enlightenment of how us BS's do have feelings and feel about their treatement.I am hoping WS's do come and get an earful of how we want to be acknowledged as humans!
So sorry rlyhurtin, Please read it again as a letter to WS about we do have egos, pride and feelings that get smashed. I'm sure you know the same pain as any other BS.
God bless, LouLou

Ladylou,
That was an awesome post. Wish my WS would read it. It was exactly what I wanted to say. I get so tired of watching us BS, like rlyhurting beat themselves up over being enablers.
Rlyhurtin, you are nothing more than a loving spouse. Your W chooses to abuse that love by being wishy washy and you deserve soooooo much more.
If you are worried about enabling maybe it is time to think of Plan B.
You don't deserve the continual hurt. I am sure you are a great husband. Don't let her keep taking you for granted. I believe that was all Lou was trying to say.
Keep your chin up!
Hugs,
layli

Layli,thank you for understanding. I might just print the article out and someday approach my WH with it.
Somehow, WS's need to really see the picture without any smoke and mirrors!
I will admit I do LB'ing often. I get so angry trying to get open communication with WH and he says things that hurt, then swears later he didnt' say it. ARGGGGGGGGG
yesterday I just jumped in the car and drove around the block. We have big blocks. LOL In desert and you have to drive what would seem more like 8 each turn to make it around.
In the past I would have driven hundreds of miles! So I must be improving? LOL
Still working on it though and there has been a lot of improvement for us both.
rlyhurtin, take Layli's advice and keep chin up. None of us are perfect, but we sure don't deserve the treatment of WS's. The greastest weapon I have found is pray and pray some more. Of course, that doesn't mean not to work the relationship tools, but praying for myself along with it to rid myself of the things that are destructive to rebuilding.
God bless, LouLou

Guys- Thanks for the support.

Lady Lou, I knew what you were trying to say. I find myself Lbing big time right now. I have been pushed to the edge of my very sanity.

The wishy washy Bull S!@# is killing me. Now she is demanding money, telling me things like

"Poor Poor H, you have to give me 1/3 of what you make." "I am emotionally so much better now. "I don't have to taking sleeping medication anymore, what does that tell you...that I am happy"

Well if I am such a worthless piece of trash why would she make attempts (Feable attempts mind you) but attempts at reconsiliation?

I told her that you right, it must have been tough sleeping next to a man that loved you and would do anything for you when you were lying to me and leading a double life for three years."

I said: "Poor Poor W, you made the choices you made and wonder why you are in this mess."

I said: "you said you had no energy, that my expectaions ate impossible. Well you are right it must have taken a ton of energy to write sexually explicit e-mails, bake him brownies, wonder if your little relationship built on lies was "real", be on the phone with him all of the time trying to get him to have sex with you, then cover up a trail of lies" --I see why you had no energy.

I know HUGE LOVE BUSTERS...But for some reason I feel the need to defend myself now.

She only seems to think that I am the only person that contributed to the condition of the marriage pre-A and she had nothing to do with it. And to be honest...I thought we had a good marriage not perfect, still needed alot of work but I just though it was what every red blooded American Marrige was. I have been Mr Plan A now I have been Lbing and Mr. Here are the FACTS MAM.

Sorry if what I said to my wife was offending, but I am really sick and tired of hearing that I am the anti-christ and she deserved to be selfish.

Oh "Husband, I couldn't tell you the truth. You would have flipped out" "And you would have made me quit the gym"---Ummm yup I would have made you quit the gym? What horse sh!@

Sorry Guys

I realize I didn't meet certain needs obviously...duh?

But gosh dang it what about mine

Domestic Support: House was always trashed
Recreational Companionship: Umm yeah if it was ONLY WHAT SHE WANTED TO DO

Admiration: Not a chance...gimme gimme gimme
Affection: Nope, maybe a peck on the cheek
A nice love note...nope too busy writing him

An Attractive Spouse: Met that need. She is beautiful

Sexual Fufillment: That need was met

Avoiding Angry Outburst: I think this woman may have focued in on every fault as a human being I have...To the point where I thought there was seriously something wrong with me and ALWAYS made me feel like she could do better.

Sorry Just Po'ed

You have every right to be angry. You are always welcome to vent here. The LB's are bad but sometimes unavoidable. Just don't beat yourself up about them. It is hard to absorb how much selfishness our wayward spouses are capable of. You are the better person. If you love her, work on the plan a but lay down rules. Tell her you wont tolerate the way she speaks to you. Boundaries are good things. They protect you.
Take care man, Hugs to you.
Layli

Hi All-

After being berated by my wife about my abilty or lack thereof to forgive telling me what an a%^ I have been, that she is not interested etc...this after two weeks ago I was supposeadly the "best"

Today she leaves me a jovial little voice mail sayinh "Hi there its your wife" And Blah Blah

Man I don't know how to come off as a man that really feels there will be no relationship unless X-Y-Z happens. She thinks she can come and go as she pleases in my day to day life. Well, that only makes things hard on me because she knows in her heart what I want. Doesn't seem fair but oh well.

Plan B is impossible with kids, that I have learned. I just don't want her or ENABLE her to think its Ok to be sweet only when she wants. Then be down right mean at other times.

WW "If you are happier with out me, THEN LEAVE ME ALONE

Sorry all of you at MB must think I am a grump!

Have a nice weekend
This

HI Rly,

I don't really know if I have anything of value to add to this now, but please know that I'm sorry for what you're going through!

It sounds like she is very confused about what she wants out of life. As for wanting 1/3 of your income? This sounds so very over the top!! I've never even figured out what percentage of my exH's income I receive in child support. I just did, and it's about 15% of his gross income. It will be ending in a few years, when our youngest turns 18. He earns about 18% more a year than I do, and I have custodial custody.

I once again want to simply express how sorry I am for your situation. Things will be better, one way or another--for you. YOu will learn and grow, and I don't know if your wife will or not. It depends on whether or not she chooses to look inward OR instead continues to look to all kinds of 'men' for affirmation. How sad for you, and your children. Please take care.

Thanks for your kind reply on my thread, by the way!

H_P

Sheesh, I just spent a long time here composing a letter only to be kicked off right as I was sending it. ARGGGGGGGGG
I have a plan C! Mine is this after all the Bulls--- fog theory!
"Hey WS! You're either in this or out of it. But I will not allow you to transfer your guilt to me. YOu are the one who lied, deceived and cheated using every sick excuse you could come up with for your immoral, dirty decision.You are the one who planned far in advance for your A and how to make home miserable to use as an excuse when caught! So decide now to take your knocks and either get your S--- together or get out"!
I am not going to allow WS to put the blame on me. Because we were working on improving our M before his A. Trying to recover from one he had years ago that only came to light 18 yrs later. I suffered the breakdown, the depression and the health issues from it. NOT HIM!
That he could do it again after seeing my suffering is unspeakable. We've argued and fought for months and now that the venting is almost done, trying to work out the M.
But it's not going to be me pampering his butt, making him feel he was some poor misguided, abused WH!
He made a choice. Knowing full well the consequences when caught. With no thought to the harm done to me or family. LB'ing? I sometimes feel the plans are for BS to kiss A-- and take it all on the chin.
It's either work together, and full repentance by him, or he can go back to what he found out was very disappointing.
But he can't stay in my life and continue to screw wiht it.
Yes, we should all try to save marriage. But not at our own expense. There is a price to pay for their sins. And I'm not paying the price for them.
Not anymore, Done paid enough in terrible pain.
I know some will not agree with me,and that's ok, Each one has to make their own individual choices of how to work it.
But the plans sometimes make us BS's look like we must do all the work.
My WH had to make a decision the first day after I found out! Not given months to make up his mind. Because I don't have enough time left to waste on lies and deceit anymore. I've got a life to live too and I want it to be happy and with someone who loves and respects me. And also loves God enough to not go off and just do their thing, then like some little kid blame someone else!
What's it called? Sh-- or get off the pot. Sorry if anyone is offended, but I tell it like I see it. All we do is enable them to continue with the old "I'm still in a fog, and can't decide what I want"! Um, walk softly and carry a big stick I say. LouLou

Well said Lou!!!

I contributed to atmospere of A...but he had an A...I was in same M and didn't!!!

Thank goodness he has always accepted full responsibility never has given me any blame (was hard even getting his feelings out of him about what he needed from me that I wasn't giving because he didn't want me to blame myself), he did this and he is now spending every minute of his life trying to make ammends, to educating himself, to helping to heal me, to helping to heal himself, to self improvement.

Without this (and his agreeing to NC on dday..never hesitated on this..even though broke it briefly a few days later) we would not be in recovery...we'd be in divorce court.

forevertogether, happy to hear your WS is really working with you on the healing. And willing to do what it takes. You are blessed there.
That kind of remorse and repentance from WS sure makes it easier to forgive quicker.
Keep on keeping on. God bless, LouLou