So I found out my WW invited the OM over for Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners with her family! Her parents know about her A and seem to support it. I have decided that I will not take my W back unless she realizes what she did is wrong and is willing to work on our M. With her parents support of the A I don't think that is ever going to happen.

I love my W and don't believe in divorce but I don't think I will ever have a future with her. Before Christmas she told me she wanted a Dv, so I sent her a plan B letter and told her that if she wanted a Dv she would have to do it. Since then I have had little (basically none) contact with her. I have not gotten the Dv papers yet. I have no reason to think the A is over and she is thinking about her M. I think she is waiting for me to Dv her so she can say that she didn't end the M and that I did.

I really love my WW but I don't think we can work it out. Is this just a really down day and I will think clearer later? I won't be back here until tomorrow (Friday) night but I would love to hear thoughts and comments from anyone.

Thank you all!
Very confused!
STTSI

<small>[ March 20, 2003, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: Still Trying To Save It ]</small>

As long as she is in the A, the prospect of a future w/ her is pretty bleak. But, since you've plan B'd her, you've placed the ball in her court telling her to file for D. I think it's a waiting game at this point.

If I were you, I'd sit back from this and go forward with you life. Re-build your life for you, but if there is a hint of a possibility of reconciling (after she comes out of her deep fog of course!) then make sure there is room for her in your life. If she hasn't cleared her things out, I'd pack them up and deliver them to her parent's house. This will send them a clear message that you are no longer allowing her to fence sit/cake walk and that you will not tolerate her flaunting the affair. She's made her choice to behave this way, and you've made a choice that this behavior is not acceptable in your house.

Then at least consult a lawyer to see what your legal rights are so if and when your WS decides to file for D you will know where you stand.

Take care!

IMVHO, you have nothing to lose by waiting this out. Work on yourself and for the time when the A dies. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Dr. Harley has made the observation that most all As die 6-9 months after discovery.

But be careful; you are a prime candidate for an A of your own. Keep yourself busy and out of trouble.

It is disappointing that the ILs are supporting this Are they incredibly afraid of losing thier daughter if they disapproved?

Have you read SAA by Dr. Harley and Dr. Harley-Chalmers?

<small>[ January 24, 2003, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: Luki ]</small>

I agree with the previous poster. You can't make anything work while she is continuing her A.
I know because I was the one who had the A.

I don't really have much else to say except that I agree with the previous poster exactly.
I just wanted you to know that there was someone else out here that read your post and is praying for you.

Thanks to all for your thoughts! I really appreciate the input. I am really sitting on the fence right now. Today was better than yesterday as I was busy with work and friends. It was hard to hear about her seeing him over Thanksgiving since we decided to spend time appart to "think" about our M. She didn't think the way I hoped she would!

rlk18- She still has things in the house mostly furniture. For my piece of mind I moved them out of my sight to make it easier for me to live at home. She really wanted her things in December but has made no effort to pick them up. Do you think I should just drop them off or should I just store it here? I have talked to several lawyers and actually I already had one set-up for Mon. morining.

Luki- Yes I have read SAA, that is how I found this site. I tried to get my WW to read it but she refuses. I have been counseling with Jennifer and she thinks I should just wait it out. You are right, I am easy for an A right now. I have to keep reminding myself that I am still married and will not do that to her or myself. I don't know why her parents support it so strongly. Her mom I felt has always had low morals and values but her step-dad I always respected and don't understand it. Her parents tell everyone he is a "friend" from work. In fact her mom is telling people that I am an [censored] and that I kicked her daughter out and I am filing for Dv. No of that is true! My WW moved out on her own, I wanted her to stay at home cause I moved out first. I can't believe her mom is lying like that!

LivingWithHope- Would it do any good if I tried to talk to her in person? I have sent her plan A and B letters saying my mistakes in our R but I was wondering if maybe I should talk to her in person. I was thinking maybe I could connect better in person. Right now she does not even want to talk to me so I don't know if it will work or not. It is so good to get the perspective from your side.

Everyone said that I would know when it was time to move on. More and more often I think it is time to move on, but I am not a quitter. I wonder if I am trying to save it because I love my W or to prove that I am not a failure. I keep working on myself and try to put her out of my mind as much as possible.

Each day gets better than the one before. Does that mean that I am letting go of my M? I think I still love my WW but I don't know if I could ever truely love her again. So confused right now!

Thanks!
STTSI

STTSI,

Our stories are somewhat similar. It is very disappointing that your IL approve of her A. I believe mine do as well. Maybe they don't necessarily agree with it, but they have done absolutely nothing to discourage her or prevent it and in my case with a child involved!

In my opinion, I would not send her stuff back. This could make things worse. Additionally, I would not see her, remember Plan B calls for no contact whatsoever. I am in waiting mode as you are. I also consulted with Jennifer and she told me there was nothing I could do to bring her out of the fog. Unfortunately you are on her time, not yours. The only person whe can bring her out of the fog is herself.

As others say, work on yourself. Do something you've always wanted to do but couldn't because of the M. Take care not to fall for somebody else, be strong because I can tell you as a matter of fact that the temptations will get strong. Remember you are still married and you owe it to yourself and to whomever you meet to wait until you are ready.

Finally, let me add that, like you, I don't believe in divorce. I believe in working things out. 98% of divorces can be avoided. If she wants a divorce, fine, let her file. To protect yourself you may want to consider a legal separation if they are allowed in the state where you live. This way you can protect your assets. A legal separation is not the same as a divorce.

Be well and if you are a religious person, turn to God, you need Him now more than ever.

UC- Sorry to hear about your situation also. I don't understand how parents can support this kind of action and also make me out to be the bad guy! I don't understand that logic.

I will check into a legal seperation. It drives me crazy because I think she is without a job now. So if I file now I will get really screwed cause she has no income! I need to buy a new car (mine has over 200,000 miles), but I don't want to cause she might get that too! Ugghh! Just venting, sorry.

I really love my WW and I am not out to screw her but I don't want to get screwed either.

UC quote: "Unfortunately you are on her time, not yours. The only person whe can bring her out of the fog is herself"

This is the hardest thing for me to deal with. I am a take action guy and I hate sitting around waiting. I have a good support system which makes it easier.

I think I will leave her things here since I don't see them anymore. It helped getting them out of my sight, I think I will do some painting inside to make it more like me. I asked her if she wanted to help me paint the inside of the house. I never got a reply, that was 2 weeks ago. Guess she doesn't care.

She told me that she doesn't think our M will ever work out and she wants a Dv. I don't understand why she has not done anything yet.

Sorry mostly venting. But I do have some questions:
Why has she not filed yet?
How do you know when it is time to make a decision and move on?
Would sending a letter to the OM saying how much I love my W help?

Crazy times right now. I guess I will wait on filing cause I couldn't look at myself know I gave up!

Thank you to all for your support and responses!
STTSI

I don't have much time to reply yet, but I will in the next couple of days. Like I said there are some similarities between our stories and I want to share that with you.

Still Trying To Save It&#8212;

It makes me very sad that her parents support her A. That is terrible.

If she hasn&#8217;t realized yet what she has done and you have tried to make her see that then there is nothing else you can do.
I truly believe that your M can be saved. But only if there is tremendous work from both of you.

I know you asked me if talking to her in person would help. I&#8217;m not sure that would help. You could definitely try. It probably couldn&#8217;t hurt. I know from my experience with what happened to me that until I had realized what I had been doing that I didn&#8217;t really listen to anyone.
You know how sometimes you can&#8217;t see something when you are in the middle of it? Well, that&#8217;s how it was for me. My H was in tremendous pain and I couldn&#8217;t see it. Why? Because I was caught up in my own world. I was selfish and it may cost me everything.

How do I feel now? I feel terrible. I hurt so much for my H and my kids. I want my H and my M more than anything in the world. It hurts me to remember how hard my H tried with me. He really did. I didn&#8217;t see it.

I can tell you that once she wakes up and realizes everything she will have so much pain in her life that she won&#8217;t be able to stand it. And she will want you. But, that may be too late. I wish I could talk to her.

I&#8217;m praying for you.

So I met with my lawyer today and asked about a legal seperation. She thinks it would make sense but is trying to push me into a full divorce. For some reason I still am not ready for that yet, I don't know why. I will discuss this with my counselor and see what comes up. Thoughts????

I am thinking this is for me even though it is going to be expensive. I feel it will send her the message that I am serious about her ending the A without actually filing for Dv. I hope it will force her hand to make a decision, one way or the other. I really don't care what that decision is, I just don't want to be the a$$ that ended the M. It is an image thing for me.

UC- I will try to find your posts and look up your sit.

LivingwithHope- Quote "I truly believe that your M can be saved. But only if there is tremendous work from both of you"

You are soooo right! I just wish she would give it another chance. I think I have been trying too hard and that maybe I should back off for awhile, that is what plan b is, right? I would love to talk to her and let her know what I have learned, but I think you are right that she will not listen.

Quote "I can tell you that once she wakes up and realizes everything she will have so much pain in her life that she won’t be able to stand it. And she will want you. But, that may be too late. I wish I could talk to her"

I wish she would wake up soon. My love for her is dying fast. I am alomst to the point of not caring anymore.

So sorry to hear about your pain, this is a terrible thing for anyone to go through, BS and WS alike! Thanks for your prayers!

I would like input regarding legal seperation vs. divorce.

Thanks
STTSI

Every situation is different but I have refused to file for divorce because I believe in M. I made a commitment to her and plan to fulfill it. If there is to be a divorce, let her file it, she's the one who's interested, so let her do the work. I don't see anything wrong with the separation, in fact I'm considering it myself. This way you can protect your assets and if you have any kids like I do, set up child custody.

I don't think you've done Plan A long enough. Do not pressure her nor create a crisis for her, her own crisis will come in time. One of the mistakes I made at the beginning was to create mini crises for her so she can snap out of it. Well, guess what? It doesn't work that way, my friend, it makes it worse.

Hang in there. You have to be tough and yet patient. You have to make sure she knows it is safe to return to you and yet let her know your pain and hurt. Don't force her hand. I know this is easier said than done but I tell you at this point your most precious assets are believing in yourself that you will get through this (YOU WILL) and patience.

Don't worry about trying to figure her out. More than likely she's not acting rational, if she's in a fog. How do you know it's time to move on? I don't know, I think this comes in stages. Don't Plan B without doing a long enough Plan A and in Plan A you try to fulfill her EN's, so don't hound her, don't follow her, don't talk about the R, don't judge her, etc., etc., etc. (Read MB concepts). Listen to her.

This will take time, a long time. Live your life one day at a time and busy yourself, you need to keep your mind busy so that you're not obsessing all the time.

As far as contacting the OM. I have mixed feelings about it. There have been plenty of posts on this topic. I only contacted him once, over the phone and the SOB hung up on me. I've been tempted to write him a letter but for what? He probably cares nothing about me, in fact I'm probably the number 1 obstacle to being with my W hassle free. I think the general advice on this site is to send a copy of a Plan B letter when you are ready for Plan B.

My W told me the same exact words: she went from "I don't think our M can be saved" to "the M will NEVER work out." All excuses they believe themselves to justify what they are doing.

Finally, let me add that the pain you feel is probably the worst pain of your life. It is excruciating, but you will survive. Post often, I've learned a lot here. You will have lots of down days but I can tell you they will become lots of down hours and then lots of down minutes. The key is knowing all things must pass and that you have an inner strength you did not know you possessed that will astound you. I have always believed in God and the biggest good that's come out of my situation is that it's brought me closer to Him. I would not be where I am right now without Him. If you have the time to look at some of my earlier posts you will read the posts of a desperate man trying to save his M without a plan, trying everything without giving it time to work. I mourn the loss of my M and my life as I knew it, but where my outlook was bleak before, I now look forward to the future. Pain is what makes us grow.

You are a good man for sticking up for your M. Remember we all fall down and every one of us has the power to get up again. This applies to you AND your wife.

Be well.

<small>[ January 27, 2003, 11:08 PM: Message edited by: utterlyconfused ]</small>

STTSI,

Sorry I didn't read all the posts, but I wanted to reply to your situation. If I had to do it all over again, I would have left my WH the first time he had an A if he didn't go to counseling and really work at restoring our M. (He didn't and I stayed M to him) It happened more than once, so I would have saved myself a lot of heartache if I had done it at your age (which was really the 1st dday) Too bad back then, there wasn't MB.

You are young and have your whole life in front of you. I know it hurts to let go of someone who you love dearly. Ask yourself, can you loose something that is already gone? Stay strong!

D.

STTSI,

Check on the legal separation. I could be wrong, but any property, etc. aquired after legal separation is yours and yours alone. See what you can find out.

I am sorry that it has come to this. Hang in there.

-Luki

UC-Thanks for the post! I am going to read your posts to help get perspective.

MB has been great for me! When I found everyone in December I was in the height (low) of my depression, I was sucidial and not eating or working. Since then day by day life has gotten better. Some days I want my WW and my M so bad it hurts, other days I could care less what happens. I do know that I am still married and will remain faithfull until the end. I think my love for her is slipping away. I agree, I made a commitment to my W and I will not break it.

I would have loved to do a longer plan A except my WW was the one that wanted to file for Dv. So taking Jennifer's advice I sent her a plan B letter and have tried to remain in NC since. It has been a month since I spoke to her, I don't know if she is working or where she lives. Some marriage, huh? I think I was pushing her too hard in the beginning and during my short plan A. Unfortunately I cannot go back in time and do it again!

I guess I will not contact the OM. Everyone says that I should not including Jennifer. I just want to be able to say that I did everything.

Pain, yeah, I have been ther and done that! I am seeing a counselor, reading books and have found religion again. I will learn from this and I will grow to be a better man and a better husband!

D- Thanks for your response! You are right I am young and have no kids so I should move on. Unfortunately, as you have read I HATE divorce so that is not really an option at this time. Maybe later, but not yet. I ahve decided that she cannot come back to the M unless she is willing to agree to IC and MC. She has to learn her lessons also or it will happen again. I don't think I am strong enough to live through this a second time. I have my whole life in front of me, but I also have almost half of my life experiences with her! Ugghh, tough decision!

Luki- I am really considering a legal seperation. I feel it is the only thing I can do to protect myself from her. With the support from her family I can't understand why she has not filed yet. All I can think of is she is unemployed and is trying to get more money from me. I know it is selfish, but I can't think of any other reason.

Thanks to all, I am going to do some thinking and praying about what my next step should be.
STTSI

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Still Trying To Save It:
<strong>I ahve decided that she cannot come back to the M unless she is willing to agree to IC and MC. She has to learn her lessons also or it will happen again.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">IMHO,

Don't worry about this now and don't be so definite about it. If she were to come back, this would push her away. What you should do instead is to figure out why the affair happened in the first place. What conditions in the M led to her affair. I've had many friends tell me "if she comes back to you, it will be under your conditions..." Well, I haven't had the pleasure of this experience yet so I will let those MB'ers who have their spouses back to share their experience as to how their WS came back and how they reacted.

Be well, and remember one day at a time.

We are here for you.

UC-I know I am jumping the gun with setting my boundaries. I have read and am still reading lots of books so that i can learn what I need to. I think I know why the A started although without her talking openly about it I am only guessing. I gave her a copy of HN/HN and the EN questionaire but she never looked at either.

I just think that by setting my boundaries it might help insure that this won't happen again. I know there are no guaranties in life but I am going to try. Bottom line I guess you are right I would probably let her back anyway.

I hope someday I will also have the pleasure of her comming home!

Thanks for you replies!
STTSI

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Still Trying To Save It:
<strong>
I hope someday I will also have the pleasure of her comming home!
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you know what my biggest dream is? For my W to call me or to e-mail me or to come home and say "we need to talk." After that for her to tell me "I'm sorry for all the pain I put you and my son through. I guess I was wrong about OM and now I'm ready to work on the M. It is YOU I want to be with. I want us to give it one more try." In this dream she breaks it up with OM not the other way around.

Dreams are dreams and we are allowed to have them. In reality, Jennifer told me if she were to come back it would not happen this way, she would say she wants to work on the M for the sake of our son. If that's reality I would take it in a heartbeat.

Truth of the matter is I'm just a romantic fool and this will never happen. But, hey, I can dream, right?

So I am going to go ahead with the legal separation. I was wondering if I should send her a letter explaining my reasons for doing this. I am afraid that her parents will tell her how much of a jerk I am and all sorts of other junk. I am thinking that in a letter I could tell her how much I love her and still want the M to work but I am doing this to protect myself. Sort of a plan B letter.

Thoughts, comments, questions? I would love to hear input on this.

Thanks
STTSI

Well it happened! I got the Dv papers today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

She wants the following:
Uncontested divorce
permanent spousal maintence
pay her debts
pay her to move to a new residence and furnish it

I can't believe what she is asking for! I always knew this day would come, but that does not make it any easier.

So much pain right now
STTSI

Wow, STTSI, our similarities continue, we even got the divorce papers the same day!

I'm sorry for what you are going through. You know I utterly understand it. Hang in there and be strong.

Could you elaborate, if you want to, why she wants permanent spousal maintenance and to pay for her move and furnish her apt?

I don't have much time to write right now but just wanted to answer your post.

Be well.